The Defense Is Fine

[maineman209]

Depends on what you’d consider Adalius Thomas, but I’m guessing that he belongs in the LB category more than a DE like he was in Baltimore, although he obviously played on the edge, either way. I definitely think he was used much more as a LB here, and I think he voiced his displeasure, particularly when asked to play strong side in ‘09.

Nowadays, you’re looking at 15m a year to try and sign someone like DeMarcus Lawrence. I’m sure Belichick will take another stab or two in the draft and also sign a mid-low level vet, as well.

During Thomas' first two seasons in BAL (2000, 2001), the Ravens were running a 4-3 under Marvelous Marv Lewis as DC.

In 2002, they switched to the 3-4 under Mike Nolan until Rex Ryan took over as DC in 2005 and switched back to the 4-3.

Thomas seems to have played mostly as a rotational DE from his rookie season into 2003 when he switched to OLB in the 3-4 (playing both right and left sides). From that point, he apparently continued to line up mostly at OLB, or at least in a hybrid OLB/DE role, even through Ryan's switch back to the 4-3.

In 2006, Thomas' last season in BAL before coming over to the Pats (at age 30), he had his career year: 83 total tackles on defense, 11 sacks, a pick, 7 PDs and a 57-yard fumble return for a TD.

Thomas (6023/270) was a fairly remarkable athlete for his size when he was drafted in the 6th round (!) out of Southern Miss in 2000 [... 4.54/40, 1.58/10yd .. 38.5 vert, 120 lj .. 4.42 ss], so he seems to have had the chops for an off-the-line role. He was also a premier special teamer for the Ravens, leading the Ravens with 23 ST tackles and making the Pro Bowl as a special teamer in 2003.
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BTW - Thomas' "big contract" with the Pats was 5 years, $35M with $20M guaranteed (a Brink's truck's worth at the time when the salary cap was a mere $109M).

In 2007 and 2008, the Pats were still running the Warren-Wilfork-Seymour 3-4 under Dean Pees. Thomas did pretty well at OLB, posting 78 TT, 6.5 sacks, 2 FFs, 8 PDs, and a 65-yard pick-six in 2007. He was on pace for another big season in 2008 [34 TT, 5.0 sacks, and 4 PD] through 9 games before breaking his forearm in wk-10 and being placed on IR.
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In early 2009, Seymour was traded to the Raiders and the transition to a hybrid 3-4/4-3 more or less began (Pees left the Pats for the Ravens after that season). It was after that trade that Thomas (still at OLB alongside Mayo, Guyton, TBC and Derrick Burgess) became a discipline problem and was benched for a couple games.

After his release in April 2010 at age 33, Thomas never played in the NFL again.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

As I write this the Pats are 6th best in points allowed, (2 points behind Rams) and yes there are still plenty of problems ( 3rd down defense yesterday), it is certainly not as bad as the first four games.
Hopefully w KVN coming back, the team can get back to where they were in that 8 game winning streak...
I think the next two games will be a good measuring stick. Keep both under 20 points, get out of there w 2 wins and HFA and get healthy for the playoffs and I will feel a lot better about their chances for a 6th Lombardi....

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We are struggling without kvn, 2 straight poor outings after the d was on such a roll and we survived the last thanks to brady/gronk. Glad the last 2 are at home but i fear they will all be dogfights until kvn gets back, and you cannot rush him back.

 

[farn]

Yet, despite the dreadful 3rd down D & the "eye test", that ragtag D with a crazy front 7 held Pitt's big three (and friends) to 24 points. And, if we consider that, you'd think NE's offense should be able to get more than 24 to win a big game.

 

[PatsfanTN]

Yeah I can agree with that, but what I’m more concerned about is Gilmore’s play. He looked flat footed and behind on most plays. Really surprised at his poor play.

 

[JMC00]

What the Pats have faced this year (yardage wise)


5 of the top 10 QBs
6 out of the top 10 WR (not including Brown)
6 out of the top 10 RB

 

[maineman209]

Worth noting that he interior DL was pretty stalwart yesterday. Guy, Brown and RJF were 2nd, 3rd and 4th in tackles with 7, 7 and 6, respectively (Gilmore was tops with 8 - all solo).

RJF got his 6 tackles while playing only 20 snaps (30%).

Where Bell did nearly all his damage on the ground was around the end, rather than through the line. So, edge contain is still an issue.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Lots of talk this morning about the Steelers coming to Foxboro and winning on various programs. I'm nervous about it to be honest but key to our chances is the defense getting off the field. Games usually don't play out the same but we have to do a better job at that

 

[IllegalContact]

Without brown the Steelers will be lucky to get past the jags

 

[IllegalContact]

Without brown the Steelers will be lucky to get past the jags

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah I can agree with that, but what I’m more concerned about is Gilmore’s play. He looked flat footed and behind on most plays. Really surprised at his poor play.

Not to make excuses but he is battling an ankle injury. He looked a tick slower yesterday but that could be just me.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Van Noy and Branch will certainly help. KC still worries me with their athletes on offense. Alex Smith starting to come back around.

That said. We're on to Buffalo

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Lots of talk this morning about the Steelers coming to Foxboro and winning on various programs. I'm nervous about it to be honest but key to our chances is the defense getting off the field. Games usually don't play out the same but we have to do a better job at that

How? They literally played the game of their lives, and still couldn't put us away. All year we've heard about how they're going to play more man coverage and rush four and force turnovers and finally unleash Bryant and Bell, yada yada yada. And the thing is, they did all of that. They did it REALLY well. But it still didn't matter. What's going to change between now and then?

If all goes well, we'll have KVN and Hogan back. Britt will be integrated into the team. Etc. They will have Haden and Brown back. I don't think that's enough. I think we play better in a rematch.

 

[BobDigital]

We are finally starting to see some holes in the defense. I knew they weren't as good as the run they had of what.... 8 games giving up 17 points or less?

I am honestly glad those holes are now a little more apparent as it gives us as fans a chance to really see where they need to adjust going forward.

Note, when I say holes I don't mean the defense sucks. I just mean areas of weakness. I still think this is a top 10 unit but they have played above their head in recent weeks.

Clearly the LBs besides Hightower/Van Noy are just not good enough. I think the DL has, all things considered, come together nicely.

Bell did okay but couldn't get too much up the middle. A good amount of his yards came outside the DEs. Inside the DEs he only averaged something like 4YPA which is fine against the best in the business.

The Pass defense is really good. We don't have that consistent guy who shuts people down but it seems we have a lot of really good DBs and every week since the first 4 weeks at least 1 or 2 have played REALLY good games. This week it was more Butler/Chung. I think Gilmore's game in retrospect wasn't as bad as it was thought.

Rowe was also solid. They will go back and forth. I honestly hated Richards. He has consistently been a weak link. He was the most responsible for that 15-20 yard catch turning into a 60+ yard catch at the end. Can't have that.

It seems every time Roberts shoots a gap he misses or is late. I think he just needs to play back. The gap shooting almost never seems to work for him.

The D seems to be having trouble on 3rd downs recently. Something to keep track of. Also so many unfinished sacks. Still they are very close to being where they need to be. Getting Van Noy back will help the biggest weakness on the team.

When they get Van back and improve just a few more minor things this D will only be below the likes of the true top Ds like the Jags/Vikings types which are just fearsome and super talented all around with top picks.

 

[PatsWSB47]

How? They literally played the game of their lives, and still couldn't put us away. All year we've heard about how they're going to play more man coverage and rush four and force turnovers and finally unleash Bryant and Bell, yada yada yada. And the thing is, they did all of that. They did it REALLY well. But it still didn't matter. What's going to change between now and then?

If all goes well, we'll have KVN and Hogan back. Britt will be integrated into the team. Etc. They will have Haden and Brown back. I don't think that's enough. I think we play better in a rematch.

Mostly that Steelers really think they won and it was a bad call that did them in. So they won't be afraid and will have Brown back, stood toe to toe with us, outplayed us all game, blah blah blah. Like you say they ignore the fact that we had injuries too.

 

[Bill Lee]

Van Noy and Branch will certainly help. KC still worries me with their athletes on offense. Alex Smith starting to come back around.

That said. We're on to Buffalo

KC very good at finding your weak spot (see Richards, Jordan) and abusing him.

That said, we're on to Buffalo.

 

[Kontradiction]

Without brown the Steelers will be lucky to get past the jags

They'll be lucky to get past them with Brown. The Jags are a horrible match-up for the Steelers.

 

[maineman209]

WEEK-15 stats:

 

[maineman209]

More ...

 

[P@tsFan]

The defense wasn’t bad. Held up great at the end of the game to give the ball back to the offense. I think the biggest issue was 3rd down throughout the game. We would get them to 3rd down and couldnt get off the field. This allowed Pittsburgh to eat up the clock and keep the ball away from Brady, particularly in the first half. Two of the third down conversions were Bell running his wheel-comeback against Trey Flowers. Trey was avoiding getting blown deep allowing Bell to get lots of separation on the comeback. Eric Rowe messed up on another PIT 3rd down conversion allowing Schuster(I believe it was) to catch a shallow crosser and turn it up for a first down. I’m not sure if maybe one of the linebackers were supposed to help out on that play.

It seeemed like PIT’s run game was targeting Lee’s side whenever they ran at the edge. Also, I believe Lee missed two chances on sacking Ben. Once at the end of the game and another time on 3rd down when it seemed like Ben was wrapped up but he escaped the pocket and ran for the 1st.

Hopefully, KVN returns soon and helps fix some of the minor issues.