The 7-man offensive line

[mgteich]

I have been one of the biggest supporters of the offensive line. They are a fine line when healthy, played well early in the season and have been together for years. I was also one of who understood that we needed at least one top OT and OG in the 2009 draft. We got the tackle.
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At this point, the offensive line is very banged up, even when they are active and playing. Our tight ends spend their game blocking because otherwise Brady would lead the league in sacks. I don't understand why we don't have a 3rd TE. We certainly could have used another blocker.

Taking the tight ends out of the offense is a severe problem.

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In the end, I don't think the OL problems are the critical path problem. Brady is clearly right in his analysis. Playing with heart in the second half and scoring at least 7 points in the second half shouldn't be too much to ask even from this offense.

As we know, we have averaged 3.5 points in the second half of our losses. We have blown half time lead after half time lead and we can't win a game anywhere in the US other than Foxborough. Belichick and the coaches haven't figured this out yet. Belichick's patriots have blown exactly ONE halftime lead in the last 8 season. I suspect that Belichick is running out of speeches.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

I suspect that Belichick is running out of speeches.

Well, maybe some of the new players think that "doing their job" entails laying down in the second half.

Maybe Bill should use a little reverse psychology?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

As we know, we have averaged 3.5 points in the second half of our losses.

On top of that, 3 of the points came off a Peyton Manning interception that gave us the ball in FG range and 7 came off a punt return putting us inside their 10. So in actuality the offense is generating less than a FG on average in the 2nd half of these games.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

I don't understand why we don't have a 3rd TE. We certainly could have used another blocker. Taking the tight ends out of the offense is a severe problem.

We had a 3rd tight end. Mike Matthews. Supposedly a heck of a blocking TE. We got rid of him without really using him very much. And yes, I know you know all that.

 

[mgteich]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

The team is averaging 3.5 points in the last half of our losses. Half of these points were set up by the defense or special teams.

So, who are the NEW players on the offense that you are talking about?

Well, maybe some of the new players think that "doing their job" entails laying down in the second half.

Maybe Bill should use a little reverse psychology?

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

The team is averaging 3.5 points in the last half of our losses. Half of these points were set up by the defense or special teams.

So, who are the NEW players on the offense that you are talking about?

I'm talking about the team in general.

 

[mgteich]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

Of course you are.

Let's focus on our losses.

The offense has scored 3.5 points in the last halfs of thoise games, with more than half the points sets up by the defense or special teams.

There are NO NEW PLAYERS responsible for this situation, NOT ONE.
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The 2009 defense is just not good enough to play the second half alone, without any scoring from the offense.

I'm talking about the team in general.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

There are NO NEW PLAYERS responsible for this situation, NOT ONE.

Dan Connolly is new and hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire. Volmer is new (his absence has hurt their pass protection).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

Maybe Brady was talking about the OL...since it seems to limit his and everyone elses options to ramp up their game.

I could have sworn you were one of the OL is full of probowlers and depth that would be starting elswhere proponents. I've been hoping for upgrades on the line since 2005, and not just in the form of upgraded depth and projects for the Dante Scarnecchia school of making faux silk purses out of sows ears...

BTW inspite of all the struggles the QB fans are mindnumbingly quick to point fingers at is having one of his best statistical seasons across the board aside from the 18-1 season that ended in dispair. Better than his performance in the three Lombardi winning seasons. Even in the second half. Go figure... He also appears to be on pace to end the season treating a couple of injuries we never heard about, which would again be on par for the last several seasons...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

Dan Connolly is new and hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire. Volmer is new (his absence has hurt their pass protection).

I could have sworn all the 3rd and 4th WR's and the 2nd TE as well as the newest veteran RB(although he's been on unofficial IR for most of the season) were all new to the NFL or or new to this team or new to it's regular season gameday offense... Yet I don't get the sense Brady or Welker is necessarily talking about the new guys...'cause most of them have made plays when called on and even fought through injury to have a shot do so.

 

[mgteich]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

I believe that this line has brought us muich success over the past few years. The line has been a stable one, except for injuries. All are probowl material except Kaczur, who is as good as our RT's have been in the past. The announcers last night spent most of their time praising the OL and the year they have been ahving. At least they did that for the first half. Adding Vollmer and Connolly to replace Hochstein and Yates is at least break even.

But contracts are up and players are injured. Vollmer is an adequate replacement for Light. I don't think Belichick will ever value the RT position enough to give it high resource priority.

The starting guards are free agents. Neal can only be expected to play half a year even now. I expect a cap and for Mankins to be long gone. I expect Light to play LG in 2010

BOTTOM LINE
We have all-pros who are injured. I wanted very much to pick up a guard to split time with Neal. We could have had one. Belichick chose to draft a couple of developmental guards.

Maybe Brady was talking about the OL...since it seems to limit his and everyone elses options to ramp up their game.

I could have sworn you were one of the OL is full of probowlers and depth that would be starting elswhere proponents. I've been hoping for upgrades on the line since 2005, and not just in the form of upgraded depth and projects for the Dante Scarnecchia school of making faux silk purses out of sows ears...

BTW inspite of all the struggles the QB fans are mindnumbingly quick to point fingers at is having one of his best statistical seasons across the board aside from the 18-1 season that ended in dispair. Better than his performance in the three Lombardi winning seasons. Even in the second half. Go figure... He also appears to be on pace to end the season treating a couple of injuries we never heard about, which would again be on par for the last several seasons...

 

[upstater1]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

It's the coaches, not the offensive line. Dante and O'Brien need to look at things closely.

The Phins were firing off on the ball before our lineman were. We are predictable on offense. Not only do defenses know when we're running or throwing, they know when we're hiking the ball (with 1 second left on the play clock). Brady points out the MLB, steps back, lifts his foot once, lifts his foot twice, one second on the clock. Like clockwork, pardon the pun.

The OL loses its natural advantage. The tape doesn't lie, and when you couple this with NFL rules that allow defenders to move prior to the snap as long as they're not in the neutral zone (but disallows OL) then it looks like our OL is being outmatched. I don't blame any of the lineman (well, Kaczur has looked like a matador on occasion) but rather the predictability.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

I'm not really sure how this line's struggles so far this season somehow undermine the "probowlers" theory, or proves that the team is in dire need of immediate upgrades since Mankins, Light and Koppen have all been to those pro bowls in the very recent past. Light has been injured, as has Neal. Mankins hasn't been the same since the Super Bowl although he's still a good player, and his play has at least seemed to be noticeably diminished this season which, if true, is not something that should have been expected in a contract year. Neal is the team's best pulling lineman so his absence has a significant effect on the running game, and Kaczur's been considered the weakest link on the line by most people since this group of 5 has been together.

Having said that, I've been calling for OT help for 2 drafts now, and Neal is getting up there in years. The team might have been better served had it picked an interior lineman rather than Brace in the last draft, since it wasn't moving Kaczur inside. Time will tell.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

I'm not really sure how this line's struggles so far this season somehow undermine the "probowlers" theory, or proves that the team is in dire need of immediate upgrades since Mankins, Light and Koppen have all been to those pro bowls in the very recent past. Light has been injured, as has Neal. Mankins hasn't been the same since the Super Bowl although he's still a good player, and his play has at least seemed to be noticeably diminished this season which, if true, is not something that should have been expected in a contract year. Neal is the team's best pulling lineman so his absence has a significant effect on the running game, and Kaczur's been considered the weakest link on the line by most people since this group of 5 has been together.

Having said that, I've been calling for OT help for 2 drafts now, and Neal is getting up there in years. The team might have been better served had it picked an interior lineman rather than Brace in the last draft, since it wasn't moving Kaczur inside. Time will tell.

So you went on a rant about the offensive line and failed to mention Vollmer once...what do you have against Vollmer?

You've been calling for OT help for 2 drafts now, well we got one in Vollmer this past year, a very good one in that. After Light retires, Vollmer is the Pats LT.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

So you went on a rant about the offensive line and failed to mention Vollmer once...what do you have against Vollmer?

You've been calling for OT help for 2 drafts now, well we got one in Vollmer this past year, a very good one in that. After Light retires, Vollmer is the Pats LT.

Vollmer isn't currently a starter. Perhaps you could stalk someone else for a while.......

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

Vollmer isn't currently a starter. Perhaps you could stalk someone else for a while.......

So what you have against Vollmer is that he isnt currently a starter (because he is injured)...? You can only talk about people that are starting? I dont understand your point.

When Vollmer is fully healthy, he is a starter on this offensive line.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

So what you have against Vollmer is that he isnt currently a starter (because he is injured)...? You can only talk about people that are starting? I dont understand your point.

When Vollmer is fully healthy, he is a starter on this offensive line.

I have nothing against Vollmer. That's always been a figment of your imagination, because you've deliberately equated a preference for one with a dislike of another . However, he's not a starter on this team and, unless the team was lying about Light being injured/hurt, Vollmer has yet to start a game when Light was healthy. Until we see healthy scratches, this team's starting 5 is Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Kaczur.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

I have nothing against Vollmer. That's always been a figment of your imagination, because you've deliberately equated a preference for one with a dislike of another . However, he's not a starter on this team and, unless the team was lying about Light being injured/hurt, Vollmer has yet to start a game when Light was healthy. Until we see healthy scratches, this team's starting 5 is Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Kaczur.

I've thought you have something against Vollmer because I have never heard you say anything positive about him.

He's started 5 games this year so he can be classified as a starter on this team. As of right now your starting 5 is correct, but we will see when Vollmer is healthy and what happens.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

I've thought you have something against Vollmer because I have never heard you say anything positive about him.

He's started 5 games this year so he can be classified as a starter on this team. As of right now your starting 5 is correct, but we will see when Vollmer is healthy and what happens.

He can't be classified as a starter, because he's not one. Until he starts over one of the five when they are healthy, he's a backup. Of course, if you want to claim that Connolly is a starter and stretch that way as well, just so you can pump up Vollmer for no real reason, you should feel free to do so. It won't really fit the way people usually mean starter, but don't let that stop you.

Using your logic, Cassel wasn't Brady's backup last year, because he started all but one game. That's fine in some contexts, but it's not fine when you're laying out the personnel at the start of the season. In the general usage of the word a player is a backup unless he plays over the healthy former starter.

 

[mgteich]

Re: The 7 Man Offensive Line

One of the major issues in this line is that Belichick thought that Connolly was much better than he is. Clearly, injuries on the OL need to be prepared for. Belichick drafted a 2010 prospect in Ohrnberger and relied on Connolly as a backup at both guard and center. I don't think he's been up to the task.