The 2013 Prospect Thread

[mayoclinic]

IMO, the safeties are going to be more important as the years progress, since the middle of the field is attacked much more now than in previous years. The ability of your centerfielders is going to be paramount to your success.

Teams are going to try and copy the Pats' success with middle of the field receivers who can exploit the available spacing.

But that's not mentioned to argue your point.

How about we just take them all??

Your DTs and my safeties??

Unstoppable...

I agree with your premise, but not your choices. Not enough verticity for my liking. I'll take Eric Reid, Tharold Simon and Tyrann Mathieu any day.

Defensive Backs Highlight - LSU Football 2011 - YouTube

 

[ZoisKing]

Its no secret that the Pats need another DT.

The good thing about that is that we have a lot of options this year.

The bottom line is that Wilfork needs less reps. He's proven himself enough.

This draft could prove to be another double dip moment for the Pats...this time at defensive tackle.

 

[ZoisKing]

I agree with your premise, but not your choices. Not enough verticity for my liking. I'll take Eric Reid, Tharold Simon and Tyrann Mathieu any day.

Defensive Backs Highlight - LSU Football 2011 - YouTube

Haha. SEC vs SEC.

That about sums it up this draft.

Mathieu is a terror in the box, but is susceptible downfield. Everyone loves Reid. I won't complain there.

Regardless, any of these guys would get a thumbs up from me.

 

[mayoclinic]

This draft could prove to be another double dip moment for the Pats...this time at defensive tackle.

John Jenkins is hugely undervalued right now, and with the glut on defensive tackles I could see someone like him getting pushed down into Alameda Ta'amu/Brandon Thompson/Josh Chapman territory.

Get the best available player out of Johnathan Hankins/Star Lotulelei/Jesse Williams. Then double dip with John Jenkins.

It hurts just to think about it.

 

[mayoclinic]

Haha. SEC vs SEC. That about sums it up this draft.

- Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama
- Kwame Geathers, DT, Georgia
- John Jenkins, DT, Georgia
- Devin Taylor, DE/OLB, South Carolina
- Jarvis Jones, DE/OLB, Georgia
- Robert Lester, FS, Alabama
- Tyrann Mathieu, DB, LSU
- Tharold Simon, DB, LSU
- Eric Reid, FS, LSU

And many, many more.

Mathieu is a terror in the box, but is susceptible downfield. Everyone loves Reid. I won't complain there.

I'd say that Mathieu is best used as a centerfielder. He's a liability in man coverage, as Alabama showed in the BCS NCG.

 

[mayoclinic]

Updated fullback and TE rankings from Walter Football:

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft: Fullback Rankings
WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft: Tight End Rankings

Very conservative rankings, and they left Levine Toilolu off the list. Besides Toilolo and Tyler Eifert I like Stanford's Zach Ertz and Alabama's Michael Williams.

 

[mayoclinic]

Preliminary list of 2013 prospects from GBN Report:

Great Blue North Draft Report

This list is always a great place to start because it's so extensive (though how they could leave Johnathan Hankins off their DT list is beyond me). A lot of their measurements are wrong, too (I'm not talking off by an inch - they have Barkevious Mingo listed at 6'0" 235#, for example). But it's a starting point.

 

[ZoisKing]

Preliminary list of 2013 prospects from GBN Report:

Great Blue North Draft Report

This list is always a great place to start because it's so extensive (though how they could leave Johnathan Hankins off their DT list is beyond me). A lot of their measurements are wrong, too (I'm not talking off by an inch - they have Barkevious Mingo listed at 6'0" 235#, for example). But it's a starting point.

To continue on the Mingo point, they also have him listed as a 43 OLB...

 

[ZoisKing]

Here's a look at Cal DE Deandre Coleman:

Take 2: Pac-12 breakout players - College Football Nation Blog - ESPN

6'5" and 311-prototype 34 DE measurements. He might be a bit too tall to leverage the inside at DT.

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's a look at Cal DE Deandre Coleman:

Take 2: Pac-12 breakout players - College Football Nation Blog - ESPN

6'5" and 311-prototype 34 DE measurements. He might be a bit too tall to leverage the inside at DT.

Great find. Similar length and size to Michael Brockers, so he may be more than capable of playing inside. John Henderson did just fine at 6'7".

 

[mayoclinic]

NFLdraftscout has updated their 2013 rankings:

NFL Draft - 2013 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Of interest:

3. DT Star Lotulelei
6. DT Johnathan Hankins
10. S Eric Reid
17. OL Barrett Jones
21. DE William Gholston
36. DT Kawann Short
37. DE Margus Hunt
38. DB Tyrann Mathieu
40. DT Jesse Williams
47. DT Johnathan Jenkins
48. OC Khaled Holmes

I'd be quite happy to get the last 4 players in that top 50. Double up on DT with Williams and Jenkins. Add a franchise center in Holmes and a playmaking DB in Mathieu. OK by me.

 

[ZoisKing]

NFLdraftscout has updated their 2013 rankings:

NFL Draft - 2013 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Of interest:

3. DT Star Lotulelei
6. DT Johnathan Hankins
10. S Eric Reid
17. OL Barrett Jones
21. DE William Gholston
36. DT Kawann Short
37. DE Margus Hunt
38. DB Tyrann Mathieu
40. DT Jesse Williams
47. DT Johnathan Jenkins
48. OC Khaled Holmes

I'd be quite happy to get the last 4 players in that top 50. Double up on DT with Williams and Jenkins. Add a franchise center in Holmes and a playmaking DB in Mathieu. OK by me.

Those were my thoughts exactly when I looked at that list. Trade back from 32, and trade up with our 3rd and 4th rounders and call it a draft!

 

[ZoisKing]

And McShay's finally catching up to the patsfans message boards

Todd McShay (@McShay13) on Twitter

 

[ZoisKing]

Here's an interesting perspective that also includes non-draft eligible players in ranking the top positional players:

Scout.com: 2013 NFL Draft Top Defensive Prospects

 

[mayoclinic]

And McShay's finally catching up to the patsfans message boards

Todd McShay (@McShay13) on Twitter

McShay is by far the smartest of the ESPN guys, though that's not saying much. John Jenkins has been inconsistent, but he came on strong the second half of last season and showed flashes of being dominant. He was a JUCO transfer last year, and sometimes it takes a year to adjust to the pace of the SEC and get the hang of things - look at how Nick Fairley took off 2 years ago.

Those were my thoughts exactly when I looked at that list. Trade back from 32, and trade up with our 3rd and 4th rounders and call it a draft!

I'd be ECSTATIC to trade back and get Jesse Williams, John Jenkins, Tyrann Mathieu (who I think could easily end up a 2nd round pick - he has elite ball skills but his lack of size and man coverage ability limit his role) and an OL like Khaled Holmes. That would be a COUP. Add a TE like Michael Williams and a flex back like Andre Ellington or Kenjon Barner. Of course, with 5 picks we'd need to make a few moves, but I doubt we'll have 5 picks by the time the draft rolls around.

In the words of OTG, Preach It, Brother!

 

[ZoisKing]

It's been a slow day, and school is officially over for the semester, so I'll attempt to entertain you with a prospect breakdown. I'll be giving the prospect a FIT or FAIL grade based on their potential as a Patriots prospect.

I don't really want to delve too deep into the players the Pats will be looking at yet, as the season hasn't started (and isn't even close), so I'll stay away from the OL and DT prospects.

A guy I've been hearing and reading a lot about is Michigan State defensive end William Gholston. The measurables are the first things that stand out at you-he's large. His measurements read 6'7", 275 pounds, and reportedly a 7'3" wingspan!

His stats don't leap out at you:

cfbstats.com - William Gholston 2011 Player Statistics - Michigan State Spartans

And he only possesses highlight tape as of now:

William Gholston - Highlight Video - YouTube

So the amount of information available is miniscule. Based on what I've seen, he's living off of his okay athleticism and his incredible size. His technique doesn't look that great, and he doesn't possess suddeness, which isn't a surprise as most guys his size have to wind up first.

He's going to have to put some work into his game because his size won't deliver the goods consistently. He also seems to be a little left of center as far as personalities go:

Michigan State's William Gholston Post Game vs Georgia - YouTube

And he also plays rough:

William Gholston Punch - YouTube

In my opinion, he's not a Patriots' player. His potential won't ever match his personality, and his skill and technique will only show up on highlight tapes, not on a down to down basis.

So in the end:

FAIL

 

[Off The Grid]

He also seems to be a little left of center...

Isn't that what you want from a Defensive End??

...Unless, of course, he's the Right End.

That...could be awkward.

...The worst part is that I actually think I'm being funny.

 

[ZoisKing]

Isn't that what you want from a Defensive End??

...Unless, of course, he's the Right End.

That...could be awkward.

...The worst part is that I actually think I'm being funny.

Haha. I'm glad you got something out of my post If its humor, then that will suffice.

 

[mayoclinic]

A guy I've been hearing and reading a lot about is Michigan State defensive end William Gholston. The measurables are the first things that stand out at you-he's large. His measurements read 6'7", 275 pounds, and reportedly a 7'3" wingspan!

His stats don't leap out at you:

cfbstats.com - William Gholston 2011 Player Statistics - Michigan State Spartans

And he only possesses highlight tape as of now:

William Gholston - Highlight Video - YouTube

So the amount of information available is miniscule. Based on what I've seen, he's living off of his okay athleticism and his incredible size. His technique doesn't look that great, and he doesn't possess suddeness, which isn't a surprise as most guys his size have to wind up first.

He's going to have to put some work into his game because his size won't deliver the goods consistently. He also seems to be a little left of center as far as personalities go:

Michigan State's William Gholston Post Game vs Georgia - YouTube

And he also plays rough:

William Gholston Punch - YouTube

In my opinion, he's not a Patriots' player. His potential won't ever match his personality, and his skill and technique will only show up on highlight tapes, not on a down to down basis.

So in the end:

FAIL

Personally, I'm hoping that DE won't be a priority for us in 2013. And I also think it's too early to be doing pass/fail evaluations on any player. But for now, I'll play, and I'll play devil's advocate about Gholston:

1. Gholston's measurables are right in the current BB bailiwick for DE's. 6'7", great wingspan, 280# or so. Perfect.

2. Gholston has great movement skills for his size, and can play in space. He came to Michigan St. as a LB. Perfect.

3. Gholston "plays rough": well, we don't want pansies out there. We've had enough "soft" players who got pushed around by the other team. And before the infamous "punch" Taylor Lewan grabbed Gholston's helmet and facemask while he was on the ground, putting him in a position to get injured:

William Gholston has his head pinned to the ground by U-M's Taylor Lewan no penalty 2011 - YouTube

Sh*t happens. It's not ballet out there. Richard Seymour punched Ben Rothlisberger in the face, albeit when he was playing for the Raiders. Thank God the Pats dumped him first - we don't want "rough" guys like that on the team. Ndamukong Suh threw a punch at Logan Mankins last year, and called Mankins a "dirty bastard". So what? Both are tough, physical, nasty guys who I'd take on my team any day.

4. Gholston's "stats don't leap out at you". Neither did Chandler Jones' stats. Since when has BB ever give a damn about that?

5. Gholston "doesn't posess suddenness". Again, neither Jones nor Bequette is a quick-twitch marvel. BB values much more than how quick a prospect's first step is. Gholston has the length to clog the passing lanes, the size and strength to set the edge, and the power to bulldoze his way through offensive tackles.

6. Gholston's "technique doesn't look great". He was a sophomore, for Crissakes, and the film is limited. I'll leave it to BB and company to evaluate his junior film more thorough and figure out whether he can be coached up. JPP's technique sucked coming out of college.

7. Gholston "seems to the left of center as far as personalities go". Why? Because he's wearing a sombrero? Because he's a little giddy after a bowl game? He seems reasonably articulate, certainly compared to the likes of Courtney Upshaw and Quinton Coples. Here's an interview with Gholston after the infamous Michigan game:

Michigan State's William Gholston Post Game vs Michigan - YouTube

He doesn't seem too far out there to me. And if he is a little goofy, so what? Matt Light left dead animals in people's lockers and electrically shocked BB with a fake mouse, and he worked out OK. (Of course, OTG would point out that you want your left tackle to be "left of center".)

My biggest questions with Gholston are not his personality or his "playing rough" but whether he is consistent enough, whether his motor is on enough, whether he cares enough about football to work hard enough, and whether his processing speed is adequate. All of those are open questions going into his junior year. I'd be hesitant to grade him as a "fail" this early.

INCOMPLETE

 

[The Gr8est]

I share your hopes that the Pats are not in the market for a DE next year, and while it may be irrational, I REALLY hope the Pats don't draft a player named Gholston.