The 2012 Combine Thread

[Wilfork#75]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

It's glaringly obvious the Janzen Jackson just doesn't care. What a waste of talent. He's off my board.

Fleming on the other hand opened my eyes with his athleticism. I knew he could play, but I didn't now he was that quick. He's a must draft.

If Jenkins doesn't go crazy he's going to be the best corner in the draft.

I completely agree about Jackson, and its really a shame because I loved his Tennessee tape. But like you said, its obvious he just doesn't care. He clearly wasn't listening to the coaches because he continually made errors during the drills and he was more worried about making a catch look good than actually coming down with the ball. Pure waste of talent, and I guarantee you in 15 years he is going to regret not taking things more serious. He's off my board too.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

It's glaringly obvious the Janzen Jackson just doesn't care. What a waste of talent. He's off my board.

Fleming on the other hand opened my eyes with his athleticism. I knew he could play, but I didn't now he was that quick. He's a must draft.

If Jenkins doesn't go crazy he's going to be the best corner in the draft.

I completely agree about Jackson, and its really a shame because I loved his Tennessee tape. But like you said, its obvious he just doesn't care. He clearly wasn't listening to the coaches because he continually made errors during the drills and he was more worried about making a catch look good than actually coming down with the ball. Pure waste of talent, and I guarantee you in 15 years he is going to regret not taking things more serious. He's off my board too.

Did either of you notice the SS Sean Richardson of Vanderbilt? Have no idea how good he is in reality, but I thought he looked really good in the drills I saw, unfortunately I wasn't able to see too much.

I think I'll rate my CB's thusly at the moment:

1. Dre Kirkpatrick
2. Jamell Fleming
3. Janoris Jenkins
4. Jayron Hosely
5. Brandon Boykin
6. Josh Robinson (liked him before he aced the combine)
7. Dwight Bentley


This CB class is stacked.

And have you seen NE Patriots Draft's new mock - Has us taking Jamell Fleming in the first round.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

You forgot to add "yet". Their careers aren't over.

Oh of course...however, a first round pick in the 1st round is generally expected to be contending for the leading receiver role on his team by the end of his second season. They are in fact expected to come in and have an immediate impact. Thomas has failed to do that really in either of his two seasons. I don't think you can justify a 1st round pick with one play in one playoff game which they really backed into thanks to other results and were playing a battered and old Steelers team. By all accounts, he should have shredded our secondary with the way he shredded the Steeler's #1 overall defense.

I didn't use it as a justification for "should" but for why he "might" be taken first round. You said he absolutely wouldn't.

I'd be amazed if he was. I think 40 times should be considered but for that to solely propel someone into the first round? Unless he absolutely wows in his interviews with coaches he's a second round prospect at best...maybe even third.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I'd be amazed if he was. I think 40 times should be considered but for that to solely propel someone into the first round? Unless he absolutely wows in his interviews with coaches he's a second round prospect at best...maybe even third.

Fair enough. You didn't answer my question though. If you don't think Hill is worthy of a first round pick, do you think Poe or Brockers are. and if so, why? They are just as raw and unproven as Hill.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Oh of course...however, a first round pick in the 1st round is generally expected to be contending for the leading receiver role on his team by the end of his second season. They are in fact expected to come in and have an immediate impact. Thomas has failed to do that really in either of his two seasons. I don't think you can justify a 1st round pick with one play in one playoff game which they really backed into thanks to other results and were playing a battered and old Steelers team. By all accounts, he should have shredded our secondary with the way he shredded the Steeler's #1 overall defense.

Thomas had a recurring foot injury in his first season which limited him, and he had to deal with injury again in his sophomore season. However, Thomas was his team's leading receiver in each of the Broncos' last 7 games.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Fair enough. You didn't answer my question though. If you don't think Hill is worthy of a first round pick, do you think Poe or Brockers are. and if so, why? They are just as raw and unproven as Hill.

I think Brockers made a big mistake coming out....and could be a big bust because of it. No he isn't first round talent because I'm not sure he can come in at the pro level and start right now...which is what I expect of a 1st round pick. I have him in the top 15 (not top 10) because of the guys measurables but I think he's going to drop further after seeing some of the other top DT prospects in the combine. I said I believe a first round pick shouldn't be developmental and Brockers is as raw as they come technique wise and it's going to have to be coached into him.

Poe I think is. He put a strong showing in every drill he participated in. Whilst I think he has some pad level issues and could have done with one more year in college, he wowed in everything. He killed the bench press, the 40 yard dash for a guy of his size combined with a decent 10 yard split! That's 1st round talent written all over it. I'm not a big fan of the combine solely boosting you as you can tell, but in this case my mind is changed.

I don't think Brockers should be picked in the first round but he no doubt will. I will actually be dropping him in my mock. I don't think Poe is going to fall tot he Steelers where I initially thought he might either...I think that combine has increased his stock

I said similar things about Nick Perry although, now he projects for me to be more of a DE than an OLB prospect, I could see him pushing himself back into the first round in my books.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I think Brockers made a big mistake coming out....and could be a big bust because of it. No he isn't first round talent because I'm not sure he can come in at the pro level and start right now...which is what I expect of a 1st round pick. I have him in the top 15 (not top 10) because of the guys measurables but I think he's going to drop further after seeing some of the other top DT prospects in the combine. I said I believe a first round pick shouldn't be developmental and Brockers is as raw as they come technique wise and it's going to have to be coached into him.

Poe I think is. He put a strong showing in every drill he participated in. Whilst I think he has some pad level issues and could have done with one more year in college, he wowed in everything. He killed the bench press, the 40 yard dash for a guy of his size combined with a decent 10 yard split! That's 1st round talent written all over it. I'm not a big fan of the combine solely boosting you as you can tell, but in this case my mind is changed.

I don't think Brockers should be picked in the first round but he no doubt will. I will actually be dropping him in my mock. I don't think Poe is going to fall tot he Steelers where I initially thought he might either...I think that combine has increased his stock

I said similar things about Nick Perry although, now he projects for me to be more of a DE than an OLB prospect, I could see him pushing himself back into the first round in my books.

Not ripping you for your opinion, but don't you see an inconsistency there? Poe is probably rawer than Hill, at least Hill was playing at a high level with the quality of coaching that entails, and yet you're prepared to put Poe in the first round based purely on his outstanding combine performance but then take issue with those who do the same with Hill. For me, whilst I think Poe will go first round and Hill might, I have both as early second round grades because they have tremendous upside but are some way off being NFL starters.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Not ripping you for your opinion, but don't you see an inconsistency there? Poe is probably rawer than Hill, at least Hill was playing at a high level with the quality of coaching that entails, and yet you're prepared to put Poe in the first round based purely on his outstanding combine performance but then take issue with those who do the same with Hill. For me, whilst I think Poe will go first round and Hill might, I have both as early second round grades because they have tremendous upside but are some way off being NFL starters.

I do see your points but I see more upside to Poe than I do Hill and I don't like comparing two different positions and the value they possess as different classes.

Hill's main concern is his ability to read coverages and the fact he didn't run a great variety of routes at college level. He also struggles to identify zone coverage and it's holes and sit in them. Not only that but from what I have read on him, he had the ability to drop as many balls as he did make big plays. I have heard the word 'unreliable' thrown around two or three times. There is star potential there and if he manages to wow at interviews then yes, maybe he can raise his stock into the first round. For me there are just a few too many question marks hanging over him.

I said he was a prospect to watch for but I'm not sue if he'd a first round prospect or a prospect we should be considering right now either (I know you didn't say he was a player we should look at but I'm just expanding on my point). We saw a veteran in Ochocinco, who had been a top caliber receiver for years, come in here and struggle to combine his knowledge and athleticism on the field and turn it into production...how's a guy from a triple option offense and run first team in college going to do?

We've gone for these speedy guys for a while now in the draft...workout warriors so to speak with the measurables to succeed...and they have left BB with egg on his face. Hill could potentially go to a simpler offense for sure but when I watch him on the field, I don't see a great receiver. Not yet.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I do see your points but I see more upside to Poe than I do Hill and I don't like comparing two different positions and the value they possess as different classes.

Hill's main concern is his ability to read coverages and the fact he didn't run a great variety of routes at college level. He also struggles to identify zone coverage and it's holes and sit in them. Not only that but from what I have read on him, he had the ability to drop as many balls as he did make big plays. I have heard the word 'unreliable' thrown around two or three times. There is star potential there and if he manages to wow at interviews then yes, maybe he can raise his stock into the first round. For me there are just a few too many question marks hanging over him.

I said he was a prospect to watch for but I'm not sue if he'd a first round prospect or a prospect we should be considering right now either (I know you didn't say he was a player we should look at but I'm just expanding on my point). We saw a veteran in Ochocinco, who had been a top caliber receiver for years, come in here and struggle to combine his knowledge and athleticism on the field and turn it into production...how's a guy from a triple option offense and run first team in college going to do?

We've gone for these speedy guys for a while now in the draft...workout warriors so to speak with the measurables to succeed...and they have left BB with egg on his face. Hill could potentially go to a simpler offense for sure but when I watch him on the field, I don't see a great receiver. Not yet.

On the Patriots drafting him, we can agree, he's too raw for us for the cost it will take to draft him. There's no value there. you, me and Wilfork 75 have the right idea, the Patriots should be drafting an accomplished college receiver with the minimum uplift to the big leagues. I know you and Wilfork are on Criner whilst it's Marvin Jones for me. In five years time, Hill might be putting up bigger numbers elsewhere (or out of the league altogether), but Jones/Criner will give Brady a much better comfort level.

Mind you, if Hill's there with our third, I'd jump on it.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

On the Patriots drafting him, we can agree, he's too raw for us for the cost it will take to draft him. There's no value there. you, me and Wilfork 75 have the right idea, the Patriots should be drafting an accomplished college receiver with the minimum uplift to the big leagues. I know you and Wilfork are on Criner whilst it's Marvin Jones for me. In five years time, Hill might be putting up bigger numbers elsewhere (or out of the league altogether), but Jones/Criner will give Brady a much better comfort level.

Mind you, if Hill's there with our third, I'd jump on it.

I wouldn't be objective to it if we have addressed our needs and he's falling...tit'#s never bad to have him as a developmental prospect at the right price and going after two WRs in the draft I wouldn't even rule out.

I expect us to go something like DL, CB/S (one of the guys like Dennard or Tru. Johnson who could play both roles maybe), WR and Safety. The 3rd round pick will be dependent on a few things...I want Molk badly (given I'ma Michigan fan and I like how he performed at the combine) and if he was falling to the 4th or 5th round then I would potential use that 3rd round pick on another WR. We don't really have any low round picks so we're definitely going to trade somewhere to accumulate some more...wouldn't surprise me if we dropped out of the first round with #31.

I wouldn't complain about Jones...nice explosion off of the line and I think he's another receiver who understands how to stem his routes and could get on page with Brady...he understands coverages too. I was a little disappointed with his vertical and have heard some separation issues raised but from what I've seen of this guy, I like him.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I wouldn't be objective to it if we have addressed our needs and he's falling...tit'#s never bad to have him as a developmental prospect at the right price and going after two WRs in the draft I wouldn't even rule out.

I expect us to go something like DL, CB/S (one of the guys like Dennard or Tru. Johnson who could play both roles maybe), WR and Safety. The 3rd round pick will be dependent on a few things...I want Molk badly (given I'ma Michigan fan and I like how he performed at the combine) and if he was falling to the 4th or 5th round then I would potential use that 3rd round pick on another WR. We don't really have any low round picks so we're definitely going to trade somewhere to accumulate some more...wouldn't surprise me if we dropped out of the first round with #31.

I wouldn't complain about Jones...nice explosion off of the line and I think he's another receiver who understands how to stem his routes and could get on page with Brady...he understands coverages too. I was a little disappointed with his vertical and have heard some separation issues raised but from what I've seen of this guy, I like him.

On Jones, he has fairly long arms so that helps make up for his Vert problems. When you watch tape, he's excellent at high pointing catches so I don't think the Vert's a tremendous problem. The advantage to Jones is that he comes out of a pro style offense rather than the dink and dunk offenses that prevail in college football. I'd take Jones at 48 I'm that high on him, although 63 probably gets it done.

The way I see the draft happening is this.

If Barron's there at 27, I think he's a slam dunk pick. Only if Devon Still falls to 27 do I think BB passes on Barron

They'll try and find a trade at 31 but I don't think they'll get anything like last year. Drop back into the second and a later round pick is the best they'll get I reckon.

with the first two picks in the second round (incl. the trade back) Kendall Reyes looks a good bet, one of the last starter potential 3-4 DE's and there's probably good OLB help there (Branch, Jones, Johnson, McLellin). 63 looks like a good value place for WR (Jones, Adams, Criner, Givens), CB in the third, bpa in the fourth.

The nice thing about the second round as it looks is that there's a lot of players who don't fit for the Pats or who we'll most likely not be drafting (Osemele, David, Weeden, Zach Brown, Brandon Thompson and the three RB's and more) so I can see someone nice falling to us wherever we're picking in the round.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I think Brockers made a big mistake coming out....

I have him in the top 15...but I think he's going to drop further.

Stop playing with my emotions!!

 

[captain stone]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

And have you seen NE Patriots Draft's new mock - Has us taking Jamell Fleming in the first round.

How's his tackling ability & willingness, and his spatial awareness?
IOW, can he become a starting FS on a SB contender?

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

How's his tackling ability & willingness, and his spatial awareness?
IOW, can he become a starting FS on a SB contender?

He did an excellent job on McNutt in their bowl game. I believe he was injured when they got torched by T Tech and Ok St. My only problem with a cb in the first is this. Those guys aren't any better than McCourty and Dowling. Waste of an asset IMO.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I agree, the question is where. Would we draft a top 64 CB knowing that we have our starters on the edges? That's high for a backup. Hosely and Boykin might qualify because they offer a quality return game and also project better as nickel guys.

Our CB's wasn't really the Problem it was the pass rush or lack their of. I wouldn't take a CB over a Hybrid DE/OLB or WR at those spots. Knowing we have some young up and coming guiys we can gamble at CB well into Day 2.

 

[VrabelJr]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Our CB's wasn't really the Problem it was the pass rush or lack their of. I wouldn't take a CB over a Hybrid DE/OLB or WR at those spots. Knowing we have some young up and coming guiys we can gamble at CB well into Day 2.

Last season our pass rush was the best it's been in years. Did your time machine take you back to the 2010-2011 season or something?

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

How's his tackling ability & willingness, and his spatial awareness?
IOW, can he become a starting FS on a SB contender?

It's generally quite excellent. Here, make up your own mind: Jamell Fleming vs Iowa 2011 - YouTube

McNutt catches a few passes on him, but for the most part Fleming played one heck of a game. Hits hard, covers aggressively, makes plays on the ball--he looks like the total package.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Last season our pass rush was the best it's been in years. Did your time machine take you back to the 2010-2011 season or something?

When Carter got hurt there goes our Pass Rush but we know he is a older guy who can't play forever...Marc Anderson is a one trick dime a dozen pony.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Our CB's wasn't really the Problem it was the pass rush or lack their of. I wouldn't take a CB over a Hybrid DE/OLB or WR at those spots. Knowing we have some young up and coming guiys we can gamble at CB well into Day 2.

Given that the team made all sorts of moves to try fixing the CB position, it's safe to say that CB was a problem.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

How's his tackling ability & willingness, and his spatial awareness?
IOW, can he become a starting FS on a SB contender?

Whilst his tackling and run support generally is excellent, I see him as a boundary corner only. His excellence is man coverage and I see him as a potential shutdown corner.