TEs in this draft???

2020 Patriots Season:
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Oct 25th

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manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
If Gronk had been returning, you pick his replacement and then worry about the depth next year..

It is interesting that DraftBible/NFLDraftScout have Warring as a 6th round pick..

They also rate Wesco as a better blocker than Sample, though they rate Sample very highly. I look at it as them comparing Gronk's blocking to Allen's blocking..

I like Sample as a decent, but replacement level, TE1. Won’t put up especially good numbers but will be a solid, reliable guy who helps in the run game and offers an option in the passing game. Wesco is an exceptional blocker but I think he’s a TE2/3 - a blocking TE that might help in the RZ.

Warring has a much higher ceiling, but a lowest floor. A potential excellent prospect for 2020 and beyond. I’m more sceptical about him in 2019.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
What is Hockenson's likely range within the first round, and what will it now take - especially based on previous trade-ups during previous first rounds - to assure his selection?

Hockenson, Fant, Smith, and Sternberger all have some blemishes.. How deep those blemishes are remains to be determined..

They say that Hockenson lacks on-field discipline in that he forgets technique and he doesn't always run his routes the way he should.

With Fant, his blemish is his blocking. Was benched for long periods by Ferentz because of it.

With Smith, people question if he's just a 1 year wonder. There is also the fact that he has short arms compared to the other TEs.

Sternberger is another one where it's wondered if he is a 1 year wonder. There is questions as to whether he's a "1 trick pony" in terms of route running.. Though the seam route isn't a bad one to be at considering the success that Gronk had with it..
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
I like Sample as a decent, but replacement level, TE1. Won’t put up especially good numbers but will be a solid, reliable guy who helps in the run game and offers an option in the passing game. Wesco is an exceptional blocker but I think he’s a TE2/3 - a blocking TE that might help in the RZ.

Warring has a much higher ceiling, but a lowest floor. A potential excellent prospect for 2020 and beyond. I’m more sceptical about him in 2019.

Honestly, I wouldn't be displeased with a combination of 2 of those 3..
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yup. It would mean TE becoming less of a focal position for the offense but McDaniels is more of a WR guy anyway.

I think that they might dial it back some to where the 2TE set might be used the same amount in the passing game a 3/4 WR sets. But, in all honesty, using the 2 TE set with them Edelman, whomever, and one of Michel, White, or Burkhead would really open things up. Especially if they used more play-action with Sony..
 

manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
I think that they might dial it back some to where the 2TE set might be used the same amount in the passing game a 3/4 WR sets. But, in all honesty, using the 2 TE set with them Edelman, whomever, and one of Michel, White, or Burkhead would really open things up. Especially if they used more play-action with Sony..

It’s certainly true that White is now the 2nd best receiver on the team. Question, would you go with 2 TE or one plus Develin?
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
It’s certainly true that White is now the 2nd best receiver on the team. Question, would you go with 2 TE or one plus Develin?

I would make the 2TE set the base, in all honesty. Like BB, I think it gives the team that much more versatility to get the mismatches they're looking for. And yes, I'd line Develin up at TE sometimes.

- Gives almost all of your running game options
- Gives you plenty of multi-receiver set options.
- Gives you the play-action with Sonya or the Run game with White to mix things up..
 

manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
I would make the 2TE set the base, in all honesty. Like BB, I think it gives the team that much more versatility to get the mismatches they're looking for. And yes, I'd line Develin up at TE sometimes.

- Gives almost all of your running game options
- Gives you plenty of multi-receiver set options.
- Gives you the play-action with Sonya or the Run game with White to mix things up..

I agree that as the roster is currently built, we’re a running/ play action team next year.
 

patchick

Moderatrix
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Honestly, I wouldn't be displeased with a combination of 2 of those 3..

I'm having trouble seeing it any other way at this point. I'm doubtful that either Iowa TE will be obtainable, and the opportunity cost of taking Irv Smith at #32 is more than I can stomach. And I'd like two darts to throw because it's a mighty important target.
 

Ochmed Jones

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Develin wasn't drafted at all.. So is there really a point there?

BB added him in the off-season of 2012 when the Pats had a need at Fullback.
Considering that the Pats are the only team that Develin has taken a game snap with, I think it's fair to include him in the discussion.

I suggest to reacquaint yourself with the definition of “drafted”.
 

miloofcroton

On the Game Day Roster
I would make the 2TE set the base, in all honesty. Like BB, I think it gives the team that much more versatility to get the mismatches they're looking for. And yes, I'd line Develin up at TE sometimes.

- Gives almost all of your running game options
- Gives you plenty of multi-receiver set options.
- Gives you the play-action with Sonya or the Run game with White to mix things up..

You have to break up your strategy by situation.

In the first half, you want to get ahead. Currently, the strategy is more of a mix of shotgun, with sprinklings of 2WR2TE or 3WR1TE under center.

In the second half, you want to sit on your lead. This calls for 2RB formations, with sprinklings of other stuff when necessary.

I think the two primary offenses are essentially 2RB1TE under center and 3WR1TE shotgun. That means if you try to make 2TE your base set, you are getting less-than-great results when you try to use them in your passing-to-get-ahead scenario or run-out-the-clock scenario (unless maybe they're HOF TEs, but we currently don't have that).

I tend to not like 2TE sets because they allow the defense to easily force the offense to be one-dimensional. A defense will have a harder time stopping a 2RB set that wants to run or a 3WR shotgun set that wants to pass.
 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
Let's not forget that the only reason the Pats were able to run a double TE set successfully is because Gronk is an all-time great at the position and gives matchup nightmares. He blocks as an elite TE and he catches as an elite seam receiver.

Unless we manage to draft a guy who can be 80-85% of Gronk, I don't see us going to the double TE set except to run the ball on short yardage situations. The question is can any of the TEs available in this year's draft give you 80-85% of Gronk?
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
...I tend to not like 2TE sets because they allow the defense to easily force the offense to be one-dimensional. A defense will have a harder time stopping a 2RB set that wants to run or a 3WR shotgun set that wants to pass.
I'm not sure I agree with this, at all.
 

miloofcroton

On the Game Day Roster
I'm not sure I agree with this, at all.

What part?

In terms of running, you have less blocking schemes available to you. Teams that solely run out of single back formations tend to get very vanilla. If you're vanilla, you're easier to stop.

It's obviously just an anecdote, but I think every single one of the Patriots playoffs touchdowns had Develin on the field.

In terms of passing, as good as your TE is at running routes and catching, he's not as good as a player who's job is dedicated to that. The exception to that rule is a generational TE such as Gronk.

2WR2TE is very balanced, don't get me wrong. But if the defense wants to stop the run, they have an easier time, and they force you to pass from it. And if the defense wants to stop the pass, they have many ways of attempting to do that, and you're a bit hamstrung in terms of having adjustments to counteract that. Thus, a good gameplan can make you one-dimensional in 2WR2TE if you don't have some special talent to get past that.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
What part?

In terms of running, you have less blocking schemes available to you. Teams that solely run out of single back formations tend to get very vanilla. If you're vanilla, you're easier to stop.

It's obviously just an anecdote, but I think every single one of the Patriots playoffs touchdowns had Develin on the field.

In terms of passing, as good as your TE is at running routes and catching, he's not as good as a player who's job is dedicated to that. The exception to that rule is a generational TE such as Gronk.

2WR2TE is very balanced, don't get me wrong. But if the defense wants to stop the run, they have an easier time, and they force you to pass from it. And if the defense wants to stop the pass, they have many ways of attempting to do that, and you're a bit hamstrung in terms of having adjustments to counteract that. Thus, a good gameplan can make you one-dimensional in 2WR2TE if you don't have some special talent to get past that.

The problem with everything you've said us that it runs counter to reality. It's actually much harder for a defense to figure out if you are going to pass or run out of a balanced set. That automatically gives the offense the advantage. If you'd paid attention to this team over the past 10 years, you'd know that.

It's a lot easier to stop a team when you telegraph your play. It was one of the only complaints about the offense last year.
Michel =90% run
White = 90% pass.

This idea you try to push that TEs aren't nearly as good as receivers speaks volumes about the limits of your understanding of the game.
 

miloofcroton

On the Game Day Roster
The problem with everything you've said us that it runs counter to reality. It's actually much harder for a defense to figure out if you are going to pass or run out of a balanced set. That automatically gives the offense the advantage. If you'd paid attention to this team over the past 10 years, you'd know that.

It's a lot easier to stop a team when you telegraph your play. It was one of the only complaints about the offense last year.
Michel =90% run
White = 90% pass.

This idea you try to push that TEs aren't nearly as good as receivers speaks volumes about the limits of your understanding of the game.

Chill the **** out, dude.

Yes, there are imbalances. I'd argue that there are benefits to an imbalanced strategy which puts players in better positions to succeed. No point in taking this further if you cannot grasp that.
 

ctpatsfan77

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
It's a lot easier to stop a team when you telegraph your play. It was one of the only complaints about the offense last year.
Michel =90% run
White = 90% pass.

FWIW, it wasn't this bad in the regular season (I think it was like 2/3 each way), but those tendencies got more extreme, not less, in the playoffs.
 

miloofcroton

On the Game Day Roster
It's a lot easier to stop a team when you telegraph your play. It was one of the only complaints about the offense last year.

The irony of saying this about a top 5 offense (with a QB that's older than many coaches and only one reliable WR)...
 

miloofcroton

On the Game Day Roster
ROFLMAO.... You're the one who cannont grasp your spewing BS. You're playing go Fish while the rest of us are playing Chess while watching a Grandmaster.

Yet to see anything of value form your posts.
Is that supposed to mean something to me? Who are you?
 

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