TEs in this draft???

2020 Patriots Season:
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Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 37.5% at BUF: 62.5%
Sun
Nov 1st

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miloofcroton

On the Game Day Roster
I need to do more work on Sample. I guess you could say the film I've seen is only a small Sample size. o_O (I'm so sorry. That was a terrible pun.)

Wesco first caught my attention due to his versatility. He can play inline, fullback, move, and so on -- he is a solid blocker and has more size (270 or so) than a lot of the other TEs in this draft. He's not the fastest or most agile, but he's a reliable dump off option who can often surprise a defender by making a move to pick up a couple extra yards. He's not a star player; he may not even become a starter in most systems, but for the Patriots I think he compares quite favorably with Develin or Allen:

James Develin

6031
259
5.03
39 BP
28.5
808
4.55
7.25

Dwayne Allen

6031
255
4.89
27 BP
32
902
4.37
7.12

Trevon Wesco

6034
270
4.88
24
31
909
4.38
7.18


A quick intro if you're unfamiliar. I was glad to see others view him in a similar fashion:



Matt Waldman’s RSP Boiler Room No.196: TE Trevon Wesco (West Virginia), Underrated

Fullback reps at Senior Bowl:


Pretty nice change of direction in this rep for a big guy:


I'm so glad that you posted these about Wesco. Dude has an excellent frame for a TE. When I was looking for blocking reps in his games, I tended to see poor/inconsistent effort and just walked away unimpressed. The WVU offense also isn't going to give you a lot of pro style rushes to look at.

Wesco could definitely be a target.
 

Ochmed Jones

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Sample

1 year starter. Married the past summer.

Good blocker. Washington averaged around 150 rushing yards per game and sample was a big reason why.

Not the fastest, not the most athletic. Not going to challenge the deep seam. Best on check down routes,

He is will dissly (seahawks) part 2.
 

Ochmed Jones

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Wesco

Jc transfer. Part running back, part tight end, part h back and part offensive lineman. Devastating blocker! Caught 24 balls last year. Angry runner after the catch.

Question is - what is he in the Nfl? Only 6’3” and not that fast.

Perfect bb pick, if he can play special teams. Eventual develin replacement. Can do 4 different things for us on offense. Defenders will know fear when he barrels down on them.
 

miloofcroton

On the Game Day Roster
Wesco

Jc transfer. Part running back, part tight end, part h back and part offensive lineman. Devastating blocker! Caught 24 balls last year. Angry runner after the catch.

Question is - what is he in the Nfl? Only 6’3” and not that fast.

Perfect bb pick, if he can play special teams. Eventual develin replacement. Can do 4 different things for us on offense. Defenders will know fear when he barrels down on them.
He's 6'3.5. You can round up. He also has over 34" arms, so he'll play big.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
What is Hockenson's likely range within the first round, and what will it now take - especially based on previous trade-ups during previous first rounds - to assure his selection?

We cannot "assure" Hockensen's selection without going up to at least #7. Several mock's have him with DET at #8. If he passes GB (also being mocked) at 12, Hockensen becomes more likely.

12 = 32 + 56 + 64 I don't think that we would want give up our 1st and both 2nds.

13 = 32 + 56 + 73 a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd

15 = 32 + 56 + 97 a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd
=====
Once Hockensen is available at 13, I think that we should be on the phone, or before in the hope that he would still be there at 13.
 
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Ochmed Jones

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I might go up to 21 because Seattle would be a great dance partner.

But hockenson would not be the guy i would go up there for.
 

State

In the Starting Line-Up
Tomorrow, April 8, is Kentucky’s pro day. It’ll be especially notable for C.J. Conrad, who was invited then disinvited to the Combine for health concerns, namely his heart.

Because of it he’s fallen by the wayside not with standing his collegiate accomplishments.

C.J. Conrad grateful after being medically cleared to resume pursuit of NFL, confident he’ll impress teams at personal pro day April 8 – BrownsZone with Scott Petrak

Get after it, CJ! You’d look better in a Patriots jersey than a Browns.
 

patchick

Moderatrix
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Anyone know the average draft position Warring is going in the mocks?

I keep trying to figure that out too. Players like Warring are super hard to project--there's a huge mismatch between the way he's ranked/mocked and the actual analyses of those who have taken a closer look. I honestly wouldn't be surprised by a high 2nd, or a low 5th. It all depends on which teams take the top rated TEs.
 

Ochmed Jones

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I keep trying to figure that out too. Players like Warring are super hard to project--there's a huge mismatch between the way he's ranked/mocked and the actual analyses of those who have taken a closer look. I honestly wouldn't be surprised by a high 2nd, or a low 5th. It all depends on which teams take the top rated TEs.

Teams that focus on game tape will project him as a 5th to 7th round guy because he didn’t really dominate or distinguish himself in games, (teams like the pats)

Teams that focus on his athletic ability will project him as a third or fourth rounder. But they are gambling that he can out produce what he put on tape. (Teams like the jets)
 

manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
Teams that focus on game tape will project him as a 5th to 7th round guy because he didn’t really dominate or distinguish himself in games, (teams like the pats)

Teams that focus on his athletic ability will project him as a third or fourth rounder. But they are gambling that he can out produce what he put on tape. (Teams like the jets)

I don’t think it’s about game tape or athletic ability per se, it’s about how you assess ceilings and floors. Chandler Jones’ game tape wasn’t spectacular but the combination of his length, athleticism and technique (the film part) led people to believe, rightly, that his ceiling was very high. Courtney Upshaw had outstanding game tape, but his lack of length and athleticism, in the end, was evidence of his low floor.

Now personally, I think Warring has a decent TE1 ceiling, but his floor is also very low. I’d take a risk on that ceiling in round 3 myself.
 

patchick

Moderatrix
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Teams that focus on game tape will project him as a 5th to 7th round guy because he didn’t really dominate or distinguish himself in games, (teams like the pats)

Teams that focus on his athletic ability will project him as a third or fourth rounder. But they are gambling that he can out produce what he put on tape. (Teams like the jets)

I don't think Warring is a typical productivity vs. measurables guy. He's a late-to-football guy: a multi-sport athlete who never tried football until his senior year of high school and was a walk-on for a fairly unsophisticated college offense. Given that background, the kinds of skills he shows on tape (body control, suddenness, hands catcher, etc.) are pretty tantalizing. He also has a reputation as a hard worker so a team might gamble on a fast learning curve.
 

manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
I don't think Warring is a typical productivity vs. measurables guy. He's a late-to-football guy: a multi-sport athlete who never tried football until his senior year of high school and was a walk-on for a fairly unsophisticated college offense. Given that background, the kinds of skills he shows on tape (body control, suddenness, hands catcher, etc.) are pretty tantalizing. He also has a reputation as a hard worker so a team might gamble on a fast learning curve.

His hands are what concern me. It’s something Lance Zierlein flagged and if you watched him at the combine, he had a number of drops.
 

manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
I don’t love Irv Smith’s value at 32 - he’s undersized and under-athletic, but if you suppose that TE is our biggest hole and you come to the conclusion that whilst Smith might not have the highest ceiling he does have the highest floor of anyone not named Hockenson, you can see an argument for playing relatively safe and making Smith the pick. Knox is the guy I want because of his ceiling, but Smith is the safe pick.
 

ChrisR2223

Pro Bowl Player
I don’t love Irv Smith’s value at 32 - he’s undersized and under-athletic, but if you suppose that TE is our biggest hole and you come to the conclusion that whilst Smith might not have the highest ceiling he does have the highest floor of anyone not named Hockenson, you can see an argument for playing relatively safe and making Smith the pick. Knox is the guy I want because of his ceiling, but Smith is the safe pick.
Don't want Smith seems like a reach and a settle.
I'd rather bet on the upside of Warring and Knox double dip in round 3
 

manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
Don't want Smith seems like a reach and a settle.
I'd rather bet on the upside of Warring and Knox double dip in round 3

I don’t love him either, but think we might need to settle just because, frankly, we’re pretty desperate at the position. Smith will probably contribute more in year one than those guys. Knox is my no 3 TE but Warring is more of a risk. Sternberger and Sample/Wesco might be a good double dip however.
 

sircole

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I don’t love him either, but think we might need to settle just because, frankly, we’re pretty desperate at the position. Smith will probably contribute more in year one than those guys. Knox is my no 3 TE but Warring is more of a risk. Sternberger and Sample/Wesco might be a good double dip however.

I think Irv Smith would be a good and safe pick, especially if he goes in the 2nd round, for us because he has actual production at the TE position, good hands and might have a higher ceiling than you think since he's very young at only being 20 years old.


Irv_Smith.png
Prospect Profile: 2019 NFL Draft TE Stats Report - Fantasy Columns


Right now, we don't have a consistent, big target for Brady with Gronk's retirement capable of contributing at least ~500 yds per season from the WR or TE positions.

I'm all for higher ceiling traits at the TE position if we double dip, but at least one of the picks should have shown actual high production without resorting to potential projections.
 
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sircole

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The hands are the scary part about Warring for me, and not his lack of experience at the TE position.

Unlike Dawson Knox or Foster Moreau, he had a high number of targets at SDSU and had mixed results with a 56% catch rate.

kahale_warring.png

His route running and blocking can be improved with more playing experience. But when adding his also questionable hands, I wouldn't feel comfortable if he was our only TE pick or investing a pick before the latter part of the 3rd at the earliest.
 
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manxman2601

Hall of Fame Poster
I think Irv Smith would be a good and safe pick, especially if he goes in the 2nd round, for us because he has actual production at the TE position, good hands and might have a higher ceiling than you think since he's very young at only being 20 years old.


View attachment 23091
Prospect Profile: 2019 NFL Draft TE Stats Report - Fantasy Columns


Right now, we don't have a consistent, big target for Brady with Gronk's retirement capable of contributing at least ~500 yds per season from the WR or TE positions.

I'm all for higher ceiling traits at the TE position if we double dip, but at least one of the picks should have shown actual high production without resorting to potential projections.

My concern with Smith is that he profiles as an HB rather than a Y TE and if that’s the case, he’s not a very athletic HB.
 

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