Tebow to Pats rumor

[Ironman44]

I didn't say he was garbage. I am sure he is a great guy. I would take him as my neighbor.
I think he is a great competitor and a quality guy but he just is not an NFL caliber QB.
If his defense played average, instead of 8-8 they would have been 4-12. Thats a fact. I cannot ignore that they won in spite of him.
Is it possible that he develops quarterbacking skills? Perhaps, but I wouldn't bank on it.
I don't see what good he would do the Patriots. I'm just not a big fan of putting players out of position, when you can get a good player at that postion. Look at the possibilities:
QB-we have beaten that to death
RB- He does not have the speed or vision to play RB
FB- He has never thrown a block or caught a pass, or at least not many
TE- See FB
WR- See FB

I don't know why we would take a guy without the position skills and put him at a position when we can have a guy who has the skills of the position there.

I'm sorry you are taking this so personally, I am just being honest about the skill level that I see.

I am not taking it personal, this is just a fun debate, please do not take anything I say that seriously. I am just a rookie on the forums that lurked a long time before joining. I happened to be a fan of tebow when he was with the Gators so I have followed him closely and know a lot of facts and stats about him .

The Broncos were the WORST team in the NFL in the previous 31 games in the NFL how can you possibly say they won IN SPITE of him ? He was the only player change that led to the 8-5 run with a playoff win. The Broncos defense was also ranked 20th last year

However Tebow was not the only reason the Broncos completely turned around that abysmal record .

The Denver defense and the kicking game had as much to do with it so, yes that much is true.

But without Tebow the Broncos do not go 8-5 into the playoffs , as Tebow is one of the 3 pieces that were neccessary to get that accomplished (Quinn and Orton would not have had that success running the same offense) .

Therefore Tebow deserves as much credit for the turn around as the defense and the kicking game and if not as much quite a bit (he was one of the 3 pieces) .

I get you do not want him for the Patriots. I think he would be a great addition to any team , to develop going forward.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

And there is no difference between the rules of 1983 and 2011 right? And they were asked to do the same things right?
The quesiton remains.
Are you seriously going to tell me that if you looked at Elway after his 1st 16 games and Tebow after his, you would tell me that Tebow has a brighter future?
Because that is what you are trying to imply here.

I loved Elway, I thought he was great!

But the very first time he came to the line in an NFL game, he lined up over...guard, not center!

When he was young, he had his share of difficulities while picking up the nuances of the game. That's just the nature of things.

Tebow's young, and has upside. He will get better...give him a chance.

Like Elway, he has those inner tangibles that can't be coached or taught. Either you've got them or you don't.

And as an aside, Andy, where'd you get that little gem about Lloyd demanding out because he didn't want to play with Tebow. Got a link?

I understand Tebow evokes strong passions and arguments. My brother-in-law is like that. But the simple fact remains, after the Broncos started winning with Tebow at the helm, everybody on the team got behind him, and started believing not only him, but themselves.

To me, that's the mark of a great leader.

 

[Ring 6]

Tebow does not have a brighter future than Elway, I would say 90% of all QBs in the league right now do not have a brighter future than Elway. So certainly not implying that.

Fair enough, but then why would you go back 27 years to a different era and posts stats to imply Tebow is a better QB 1 year in?

What I am trying to say is this:


I read how most of you think Tebow is complete hot garbage

I have not said that.

I looked up and posted his stats (total yards 3842, 32 Td etc in 16 starts and some situation play)
I don't understand , taking all the factors, how anyone that is a football fan would think he is not worth developing.

Because 3 years into the league he still does not throw the ball at an NFL caliber level.
Posting stats to deflect his primary deficiency isn't a reasonable argument. He could run for 1500 yards, and if he can't throw the ball well enough he cannot be an NFL QB unless a team converts its offense to an option QB running offense. No team is going to do that because QBs will get killed running that much.
It isn't about stats, its about his ability to drop back, read a defense, make good decisions and deliver the ball on time. Thats what NFL QBs have to do. He has not shown he can do that at a level good enough for the NFL.

It is a huge assumption to say he will stay in statis and not develop. All things considered Tebow did real well last year and the few games he started the year before. At the very least he is a red zone TD slot machine. 32 NFL Tds is 32 NFL Tds. whats he going to be doing with better players around him and more experience? 40 Tds?

His team scored 18 points or less in 9 of his 16 games and 7 of the last 10. The amount of TDs just isnt good no matter how many times you want to list it. A QBs job is to get his team in the endzone, not be the guy who carries it the last few yards a lot of the times when you aren't scoring many points.

The patriots would be lucky to get him and develop him at several positions . Its as if the ESPN hype machine doomed this kids future.

I don't know how ESPN doomed him. They made him more popular than any mediocre performing QB ever.
I have already posted my thoughts on the poor fit here.

 

[Ironman44]

Fair enough, but then why would you go back 27 years to a different era and posts stats to imply Tebow is a better QB 1 year in?


.

Andy just to set the record straight I did not post any Elway stats and only brought up the comparison answering someone else. Tebow is not Elway and even tebow will tell you that.

I understand your argument, you present it very well. We will agree to disagree on this subject.

 

[Avenger]

Tebow was great a maximizing time of possession, which contributed to low points scored by other teams (except Patriots).

 

[Ring 6]

I loved Elway, I thought he was great!

But the very first time he came to the line in an NFL game, he lined up over...guard, not center!

Haha, like he didn't know where the center was right? Good one.

When he was young, he had his share of difficulities while picking up the nuances of the game. That's just the nature of things.

Tebow's young, and has upside. He will get better...give him a chance.

I think there is simply a skill level required that he lacks. Its been 3 years now.

Like Elway, he has those inner tangibles that can't be coached or taught. Either you've got them or you don't.

And as an aside, Andy, where'd you get that little gem about Lloyd demanding out because he didn't want to play with Tebow. Got a link?

It was well known at the time. It coincided with Tebow becoming the started and shelving the NFL style offense. When making the decision, they agreed to trade Lloyd because they weren't going to throw the ball. Demanding may be the wrong term, because they didn't force him to demand, they knew a top WR in the last year of his contract would be killing his value playing on a team throwing 9 passes a game.

I understand Tebow evokes strong passions and arguments. My brother-in-law is like that. But the simple fact remains, after the Broncos started winning with Tebow at the helm, everybody on the team got behind him, and started believing not only him, but themselves.

To me, that's the mark of a great leader.

I see that as complete coincidence. If what you say is true, then why did they lose the last 3 games of the year, including 2 to the Bills and Chiefs with a playoff berth clinched by a win?
They won because there defense started playing lights out. Tebow was just the QB struggling to score points who benefitted from it.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy just to set the record straight I did not post any Elway stats and only brought up the comparison answering someone else. Tebow is not Elway and even tebow will tell you that.

I understand your argument, you present it very well. We will agree to disagree on this subject.

Thats cool

 

[Ring 6]

I am not taking it personal, this is just a fun debate, please do not take anything I say that seriously. I am just a rookie on the forums that lurked a long time before joining. I happened to be a fan of tebow when he was with the Gators so I have followed him closely and know a lot of facts and stats about him .

The Broncos were the WORST team in the NFL in the previous 31 games in the NFL how can you possibly say they won IN SPITE of him ? He was the only player change that led to the 8-5 run with a playoff win. The Broncos defense was also ranked 20th last year

However Tebow was not the only reason the Broncos completely turned around that abysmal record .

The Denver defense and the kicking game had as much to do with it so, yes that much is true.

But without Tebow the Broncos do not go 8-5 into the playoffs , as Tebow is one of the 3 pieces that were neccessary to get that accomplished (Quinn and Orton would not have had that success running the same offense) .

Therefore Tebow deserves as much credit for the turn around as the defense and the kicking game and if not as much quite a bit (he was one of the 3 pieces) .

I get you do not want him for the Patriots. I think he would be a great addition to any team , to develop going forward.

I dont know how you credit the QB when you win 13-10. 17-10, 16-13 etc. And most of the wins were the defense carrying an abysmal offensive effort.

Its not that I don't want Tebow on the Patriots per se, but that I cannot imagine trading for him and taking on that contract, nor do I see a role to put him in that would be better than getting someone who is actually equipped for that position.
Perhaps his ticket is versatility being able to play special teams, a few plays at HBack, a couple in the slot, be able to be the backup to a bunch of guys, maybe even learn to play safety, but I cannot imagine he will agree to go somewhere that he won't have the best chance to play QB.
I can't imagine anyone trading for him with his current contract, so he would have to only go to the place he thinks he has the best chance to play QB, ir he will refuse the cut. That isnt here.

 

[Ring 6]

but alot of QBs had a low completion percentage in their first year starting....its his first year!

I would understand your sentiment if we are 3 or 4 years as a starter in...the fact is he is not and the Broncos offense dictated he throw long almost all the time. here is what Elway said in a press conference:

"Your completion % is going to be decided by the way the defense is playing you. If they play you in man coverage, and have 9 in the box, and give you the deep ball, don't expect a quarterback to be a 60% passer. The best you're going to be is about 50% and it's about what you can do within that percentage."

John Elway

Only 58 of his passes were thrown more than 20 yards beyond the los. That is just over 20% off his passes.
A 60% passer on all of his short throws would still complete 48% of his passes if he went 0-58 on those.
Tebow was 110-211 just over 50% on throws 20 or less.
On passes 11-20 yards he completed on 36.9%.
On passes 1-10 yards downfield he completed just 57.9%.

 

[patsderoer]

Tebow was great a maximizing time of possession, which contributed to low points scored by other teams (except Patriots).

This. Tebow's maximizing TOP also allowed his defense to take a breather, to come back strong to make a stop. Tebow impacted the game in many ways, he took over a hopeless 1-4 team to the playoffs and there he beat the #1 defence. Yet according to ignorant posters here, he is not an NFL level QB. LOL

 

[Wilfork#75]

My reaction to reading the thread title











Nothing against the guy, I just don't think he helps this team.

 

[shmessy]

Originally Posted by ausbacker
Because I've seen Tom Brady carry an offense full of average to below average talent to within moments of a Superbowl. But please, continue in this rich vein of posting.

When was that.

2006.

You weren't here then.

 

[JDot]

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Haha, like he didn't know where the center was right? Good one.

You never heard that? That story is legend! I kid you not!

I think there is simply a skill level required that he lacks. Its been 3 years now.

Umm...last season was really his first under fire. What you call a skill level may be well be something that can simply be labeled "unconventional". Lord knows, he wouldn't be the first endowed with that moniker.

It was well known at the time. It coincided with Tebow becoming the started and shelving the NFL style offense. When making the decision, they agreed to trade Lloyd because they weren't going to throw the ball. Demanding may be the wrong term, because they didn't force him to demand, they knew a top WR in the last year of his contract would be killing his value playing on a team throwing 9 passes a game.

Well known? Andy, I live in Denver! I never read or heard that story. The line at the time was Lloyd was disenchanted with the team and it's prospects, and was becoming something of a malcontent. He was moved because at the time they thought it was better to move him and get something - anything - in return. Why do you think they settled for a 6th? At the time, everyone knew what was going on in Denver, and that he was gone, no matter what, and that that was the best deal they were going to get for him.

Why would he complain about the prospects of playing with Tebow after the disaster that was Orton?

I see that as complete coincidence. If what you say is true, then why did they lose the last 3 games of the year, including 2 to the Bills and Chiefs with a playoff berth clinched by a win?
They won because there defense started playing lights out. Tebow was just the QB struggling to score points who benefitted from it.

I dunno. Why did the Pats go through a stretch midway through the season where they lost 2 of 3, including one to those selfsame Bills?

It's a long season, a very long season. You can't get a team up for every single game. There will be stretches where things just don't go right, no matter what. That's life.

Denver should be thankful and proud this kid took this team where it really had no business being. All the QBs they tried before went for naught, until this guy, who it seems nobody likes, and is the neanderthal prototype for the Worst Quarterback Ever, changed the entire dynanic of that team until the coach, the team's top executive and the owner all had to agree this kid was indeed the Real Deal.

I understand you don't like him as a QB. I understand you don't see him as a classic, traditional passer. I even understand you may not like his methodology in playing the game.

What I don't understand, Andy, is why you can't see that, in spite of all the negatives associated with this Denver team, all this kid seemed to do was win.

I mean, that counts for something, right?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Here's a kinda sorta source link. So basically Clayton is repeating rumors. Amazing how much mileage they're getting out of a pre-draft North End meal.

Which could have been a smokescreen to garner information on Hernandez, Cunningham and Spikes....

 

[Ring 6]

This. Tebow's maximizing TOP also allowed his defense to take a breather, to come back strong to make a stop. Tebow impacted the game in many ways, he took over a hopeless 1-4 team to the playoffs and there he beat the #1 defence. Yet according to ignorant posters here, he is not an NFL level QB. LOL

Again, we credit Tebow for someone elses work?
Actually we have moved on to giving him credit for something that didn't happen. The Broncos were 23rd in TOP.

 

[EJ Blitz]

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Again, we credit Tebow for someone elses work?
Actually we have moved on to giving him credit for something that didn't happen. The Broncos were 23rd in TOP.

What about from game 6 on?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Across 2007/2007. I should have known you were a troll. I'll leave you be now.

Don't get him started on Derek Wolfe...

Sheesh.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Wait! Tebow's Mom posts here?

Or Derek Wolfe's mom or gf or best friend or family member.