TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins released

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Genes and Addictions

 

[BTTA]

People mock and disparage everyone, just as they praise everyone, from family members to co-workers to politicians to athletes. It's not about entitlement, self-loathing and free floating anger. It's about human nature, judgment, and impact analysis.

Mocking and disparagement, as done on the internet, using words such as "trash" and "useless" about a human being you've never met and will never have a relationship with, are not normal healthy behavior. There's a hostility that underlies the criticism of players that is out of proportion and out of balance. It is similar to road rage. I stand by my original assertion.

 

[Ring 6]

You're getting worse. The baby step was how you weren't pissy until the end of your last post, now you're leading with it.

Belichick would 100% trade a player not fully committed to playing.

He would not trade a player who is going to retire. But if you think he would give me an example.

They aren't "my rumors" it was commonly reported, including by Shefter

I don’t care how you want to put lipstick on the pig, but it was a rumor that turned out to be unfounded. Schefter being the rumor mongers doesn’t make it a fact.
Gronk wasn’t traded is a fact.

"When a rumor turns out to not happen it was wrong" is nonsensical. It means the trade didn't happen, not that there wasn't truth to it. Pretty simple stuff.

If the rumor was that a trade as worked out of course it was bs because there was no trade.
You have now moved the goal posts from it happened to maybe there was some truth in it.

Facts:
When it supposedly happened gronk was not telling anyone whether he was retiring or not.

The only person rumored to be in on it was conveniently exactly the one guy who would play along with a phony rumor.

Bb has never traded a player who retired or was waffling about retirement.

Gronk said he was playing, gronk didn’t get traded.

Every single fact is on my side of this.

 

[Ring 6]

Mocking and disparagement, as done on the internet, using words such as "trash" and "useless" about a human being you've never met and will never have a relationship with, are not normal healthy behavior. There's a hostility that underlies the criticism of players that is out of proportion and out of balance. It is similar to road rage. I stand by my original assertion.

I think there are people who actually feel that as a fan they are entitled to the players living up to their standard for them (which is significantly higher than their own standards for themselves usually) and there are some that feel wronged by the player when he does t excel.

I’ve literally seen people argue that fans care more about the players success and commitment than the player does.

 

[LJRomanoff]

It would be great to see the TEs we have make the roster.

Unlikely that the Patriots put five TEs on the roster.

 

[LJRomanoff]

I don't think anyone wants to admit why that is the case

Hint: It has something to do with his talent.

Something to do with talent, also something to do with the fact that Gordon has already played a few games for the Patriots and to this day makes it very clear he considers himself part of the organization (and vice versa) whereas ASJ was only around for the proverbial cup of coffee.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

So if you’re a drug addict/alcoholic that’s good at football you deserve coddling and excuses. If you’re a drug addict/alcoholic that is average at football then you don’t deserve coddling or excuses.

I am strictly talking about this forum and the overwhelming amount of defenders of Josh Gordon and his issues. I didn’t have as much sympathy for him as most seemed to and got the “do you know how hard addiction is!?!” lecture. Now that ASJ is rumored to be having similar issues it’s more just “oh well” and variations of “bye” and “he sucks anyways”.

I think this is partly true, but I think @Deus Irae 's point (if I'm reading it right) is that most people didn't come into this thread to throw ASJ under the bus for his addiction problems, and most didn't actually know about it or still aren't 100% sure of it, whereas Josh Gordon's problems were very public. I personally think at this point (as I posted earlier), it is fair to assume that ASJ's release was caused by a relapse, given the surrounding circumstances and the articles you can easily Google about ASJ's addiction. I can't prove this but can run with it in my mind, and I feel the factors are highly stacked towards that conclusion.

But I think it's fair to say that if someone has at some point in this thread "tossed ASJ aside" and not given him the same treatment of Josh Gordon, it may have more to do with lack of information/confirmation of what's going on here. I'm with you, though, as I am the one who started this ruckus asking people to assume he is dealing with the same issues as Gordon before trashing him, and if you do believe that ASJ is dealing with similar issues, give him an equal judgement that you'd give to Gordon. One guy is supremely talented as a football player, enough to overcome the damage of addiction, while the other is not. One guy is more useful on the football field than the other. But if they are both dealing with similar addiction issues, it would be good to have a consistent view of how we view addiction in all people struggling with it, not just the ones who can outjump and blow by defenders for highlight reel touchdowns and still have potential benefit for our favorite team.

I liked the trade as well but I didn’t and don’t really care for Josh Gordon as a player/person. I am all for second chances but when you’re on your 4th or 5th and you continually let down your teammates and fans you become hard to root for. I do hope he turns his life around but I really don’t have much sympathy for him.

Addiction is an infuriating disease. It makes you vacillate between sympathy and anger, as someone helplessly watching from the outside. As someone who has been through a lot of this personally (not having the disease but watching a loved one go through it), I can just tell you that your viewpoint is need of a deeper understanding of the problem.

Gordon "letting his teammates down" is actually a hallmark of the disease. Feeling pressure to stay sober for the sake of others can often exacerbate the problem, as the shame and feelings of letting people down cause addicts to go into more downward spirals to escape. It doesn't matter if has a second, third, fourth, fifth, or five-hundreth chance. It doesn't get easier to fight addiction, and you don't become better at it from "learning your lesson," unless you're talking about maintaining an extremely strict lifestyle all the time that is centered around avoiding relapse. Easier said than done.

Be thankful that you can (presumably) drink alcohol and have a trigger in your brain that tells you when you've had enough, rather than a trigger that tells you to keep going endlessly. You were likely born with that mechanism and didn't earn it through will power or superior moral choices.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Something to do with talent, also something to do with the fact that Gordon has already played a few games for the Patriots and to this day makes it very clear he considers himself part of the organization (and vice versa) whereas ASJ was only around for the proverbial cup of coffee.

I agree. They got to know Josh a little and clearly feel he has the talent, value, production and because hes a culture fit here is worth "investing" in.

Part of me thinks if ASJ represented "Gronk-like" potential and value he would not have been released.

Who knows...

 

[LJRomanoff]

Part of me thinks if ASJ represented "Gronk-like" potential and value he would not have been released.

True. It would also depend on how seriously the team thought he was committed to achieving sobriety. ASJ seems more like Michael Floyd part II to me than anything else.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think this is partly true, but I think @Deus Irae 's point (if I'm reading it right) is that most people didn't come into this thread to throw ASJ under the bus for his addiction problems, and most didn't actually know about it or still aren't 100% sure of it, whereas Josh Gordon's problems were very public.

Pretty much, yes. This forum 'vetted' the hell out of Gordon. Local media did the same thing. The percentage of "we don't want him!" people was very high, before he was brought in, while he was playing, and after he got popped again. Many continue to hold that same position to this day.

So, when we've got a less talented player with a less well known history (of what seems to be a lesser problem), who wasn't put through the ringer and analyzed, but also was only here for a few weeks. it should come as no surprise to anyone that, in the absence of actual reporting as to why the man's gone, people are going to be more dismissive.

Frankly, there'd be a problem if people weren't.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You were doing ok up until the end of the post, but baby steps I guess.

You're speculating. That's fine, lots of that here, but that's what it is, so stating it as fact is silly. Of course Belichick would trade a player not fully committed to playing, good reason to do it actually. (And obviously he wouldn't/couldn't trade a player who retired.)

So one more step and you are there. If he wouldn’t trade a player who is retiring and he didn’t trade the player when he says he wasn’t retiring then he wasn’t trading the player.

It’s actually you who are speculating using a rumor as fact. The fact is he didn’t trade gronk. Your rumors are only rumor and when a rumor turns out to not happen, it was wrong. Pretty simple stuff.

Gronk confirms he nixed Lions trade: 'Brady's my QB'

When asked about a report that the New England Patriots were close to trading the All-Pro tight end to Detroit, Gronkowski corroborated the rumor, adding he had no desire to leave Tom Brady's side and nixed the swap by vowing to hang them up.

"Yeah, it happened," Gronk told reporters, per Greg Bedard of the Boston Sports Journal. "Brady's my quarterback. ... I wasn't going anywhere without Brady."

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Pretty much, yes. This forum 'vetted' the hell out of Gordon. Local media did the same thing. The percentage of "we don't want him!" people was very high, before he was brought in, while he was playing, and after he got popped again. Many continue to hold that same position to this day.

So, when we've got a less talented player with a less well known history (of what seems to be a lesser problem), who wasn't put through the ringer and analyzed, but also was only here for a few weeks. it should come as no surprise to anyone that, in the absence of actual reporting as to why the man's gone, people are going to be more dismissive.

Frankly, there'd be a problem if people weren't.

Would you agree that we’re somewhere near the “very likely” spectrum of Jenkins current problems being that of addiction, even if it isn’t confirmed? You might recall Gordon’s suspension last year was met with a similarly vague statement initially. Full disclaimer: I wasn’t aware of ASJ’s issues up until now, and my first reaction was “what a bum,” but I think this is a reasonable dot connection that he’s dealing with some bad addiction issues like Gordon. Anyway, to each their own. This is a football forum, not a recovery and awareness one, and I understand from that standpoint this is not close to as big as the Gordon situation.

Report: Austin Seferian-Jenkins dealing with personal issues

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...rt-another-suspension/?utm_term=.6271fc1c7db7

“I take my mental health very seriously at this point to ensure I remain able to perform at the highest level,” Gordon tweeted Thursday morning. “I have recently felt like I could have a better grasp on things mentally. With that said, I will be stepping away from the football field for a bit to focus on my mental health.”

Previously Published Articles on ASJ (but certainly less noticed than Gordon)

Seferian-Jenkins makes peace with alcohol addiction

Austin Seferian-Jenkins on battles with alcohol: "I'm 24…but going on 54"

NY Jets Tight End Austin Seferian-Jenkins Talks Recovery, Credits Personal and Professional Success to Treatment

 

[RobertWeathers]

True. It would also depend on how seriously the team thought he was committed to achieving sobriety. ASJ seems more like Michael Floyd part II to me than anything else.

Yea maybe. I think Floyd was invited to the 2017 camp but was the last cut. Might not be apples to apples but your point is taken.

 

[aluminum seats]

He would not trade a player who is going to retire.

Belichick would do anything he felt would help the team.

it was a rumor that turned out to be unfounded

No, you have zero proof of this.

If the rumor was that a trade as worked out of course it was bs because there was no trade.

Very wrong. Of course a report that a trade was in place but didn't happen could be true. Obviously.

Every single fact is on my side of this.

Again, I assume you're saying this into a mirror to reassure yourself.

 

[Deus Irae]

Would you agree that we’re somewhere near the “very likely” spectrum of Jenkins current problems being that of addiction, even if it isn’t confirmed?

No, but it's not because I don't think it's a good possibility. It's because we've got a time specific step away (month). Could that be rehab? Sure, but it could be something else where there's at least an idea of a timeline, and I don't want to put a percentage on it with a guy who's not familiar enough to me for me to make that leap.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

No, but it's not because I don't think it's a good possibility. It's because we've got a time specific step away (month). Could that be rehab? Sure, but it could be something else where there's at least an idea of a timeline, and I don't want to put a percentage on it with a guy who's not familiar enough to me for me to make that leap.

That’s a good observation.

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick would do anything he felt would help the team.

No. He would not screw a trade partner.

No, you have zero proof of this.

Of course I do. HE WASNT TRADED.

Very wrong. Of course a report that a trade was in place but didn't happen could be true. Obviously.

And there is zero evidence that is the case. If it was in place and didnt happen a reason would be known.

Again, I assume you're saying this into a mirror to reassure yourself.

I listed all the facts. You have yet to list a single one. Not a single one.

 

[aluminum seats]

No. He would not screw a trade partner.

It's not a matter of "screwing a trade partner." Belichick would make any move he deemed beneficial to the Patriots. Not even a question.

Of course I do. HE WASNT TRADED.

A player not being traded obviously doesn't mean a trade wasn't discussed. Again, this is obvious.

And there is zero evidence that is the case. If it was in place and didnt happen a reason would be known.

It's not a question of "evidence," it was what was roundly reported, including by credible sources such as Schefter. The reason it didn't happen was provided by Schefter. You don't believe this, which is fine, but pretending you know definitively what he reported didn't occur is silly.

I listed all the facts. You have yet to list a single one. Not a single one.

You have "listed" nothing but your own speculations on what happened. Again, you're welcome to do that, as long as you know you're merely speculating.

 

[Angelpats]

Unlikely that the Patriots put five TEs on the roster.

We only need a couple to make it and not just take a spot on the roster but progress and contribute.

 

[Ring 6]

It's not a matter of "screwing a trade partner." Belichick would make any move he deemed beneficial to the Patriots. Not even a question.

Not at the expense of screwing a trade partner, no he wouldn’t make ANY move he deemed beneficial.

A player not being traded obviously doesn't mean a trade wasn't discussed. Again, this is obvious.

Moving the goal posts again? Now the trade was “discussed”?

It's not a question of "evidence," it was what was roundly reported, including by credible sources such as Schefter. The reason it didn't happen was provided by Schefter. You don't believe this, which is fine, but pretending you know definitively what he reported didn't occur is silly.

Huh? You are arguing something happened. But now you are saying evidence of that claim
is irrelevant. A rumor serves as proof to you evidently. Not to me.

You have "listed" nothing but your own speculations on what happened. Again, you're welcome to do that, as long as you know you're merely speculating.

I listed facts. The conclusion only requires common sense.

We disagree. This is literally a waste of time.