Talk Radio and the tone of discussion on NFL message boards

[upstater1]

So, I'm listening to 98.5 Sportshub this morning, and there are two arguments being made.

1. In regards to Belichick's comments that he is "absolutely" as optimistic and enthusiastic about Mac Jones being his QB as he was last year at about this time, the radio host flat out said, "I don't believe him." The host then went on to say he is more than convinced that the Patriots wanted Will Levis and that if they had managed to trade up for him in the 2nd round, they would've traded Mac away. Mindboggling argument, Levis was there for the taking by the Patriots at absolutely any point. If they wanted him, they could've taken him easily. Never mind that's he's a QB that went in the 2nd round.

2. They have questions about the Gonzalez pick. Why? Because the Patriots failed with Ras-I Dowling and JoeJuan Williams. Apparently, the Patriots do not coach well when it comes to bigger CBs, it's not the skillset they look for, they want smaller shiftier CBs, and they simply can't develop the bigger ones. A weird thing to say when you dont mention Williams' speed versus Gonzalez's speed. Beyond that, the Patriots signed 2 really big CBs in the 2010s who were scuffling with their prior teams, and they resurrected their careers and made them Pro Bowlers: Aqib Talib and Stephen Gilmore. These guys became great players AFTER they signed. The narrative is questionable at best.

I don't want to go after the Patriot radio people too much because I'm sure there are examples of stirring the pot everywhere in the league. But I would argue that Patriots radio is extreme.

Over the last couple of days, I've seen posters here talk about the Bills' excellent drafting over the last several years. Which is funny to me because I'm in Buffalo and I hear the radio guys regularly blast the Bills for drafting defensive players instead of WRs, and furthermore, their defensive players simply don't pan out the way they should. The talk here is that the Bills lost in the playoffs because once Von Miller went down, they had no pressure on the QB and couldn't defend the pass. And this is despite the enormous amount of resources spent to do exactly that.

Look at the Bills' drafting under Beane:

1st: Shaq Lawson
2nd: Reggie Ragland
1st: Tre White
1st: Tremaine Edmunds
3rd: Harrison Phillips
1st: Ed Oliver
2nd: Aj Epenesa
1st: Greg Rousseau
2nd: Boogie Basham
1st: Kaiir Elam
3rd: Terrel Bernard

I mean, what happens when you spend 11 prime picks on defense in a short time span, and only 2 of them work out (Tre White and Edmunds, even though Edmunds has a lot of detractors in Buffalo)?

In New England, we talk about the Bills great drafting. In Buffalo, they talk about the extremely poor drafting by Beane and McDermott.

It really amazes me how talk radio infects and influences the minds of fans. I'm convinced that's what's happened to this board and to Twitter Patriot fans in general. The negativity is overwhelming. The 2 examples I gave above for why the Patriots are failing at the draft and why the Patriots are lying about things, they're logically absurd... but yet this is what passes so often as the truth. All this talk is TWISTED.

 

[archstanton543]

So, I'm listening to 98.5 Sportshub this morning, and there are two arguments being made.

1. In regards to Belichick's comments that he is "absolutely" as optimistic and enthusiastic about Mac Jones being his QB as he was last year at about this time, the radio host flat out said, "I don't believe him."

I don't believe BB when he says something to the press unless it's about football history. That said, I don't think that Mac was on the trading block in any serious way...if at all.

I also don't listen to sports talk radio. Gave it up over 5 years ago. One of the best decisions I ever made.

 

[zimmy]

Don't listen to talk radio. This has been a good draft in terms of finding quality players at value. I've said it repeatedly but what this team needs is high end talent. We aren't in a position to sacrifice the to pick someone just for a need. We did that last year and everyone moaned.

 

[signbabybrady]

Stay strong brother

 

[Sicilian]

Don't listen to talk radio. This has been a good draft in terms of finding quality players at value. I've said it repeatedly but what this team needs is high end talent. We aren't in a position to sacrifice the to pick someone just for a need. We did that last year and everyone moaned.

Not only that, but people seem to vastly overestimate the number of guys drafted in the 3rd round and beyond who contribute (positively) in year one. There are a few each year, but for the most part those are guys who won't be ready for a steady role until year 2. So if you want a WR or TE or OT that's going to help the offense THIS year, you weren't getting him at 76, at least the majority of the time.

 

[Bill Lee]

It's simple. Mediots have lots of air waves to fill. Most of what they are saying is either totally made up or hugely exaggerated. Note how no one is saying Tom Curran should be fired for the role he played in this whole made-up Mac Jones narrative. What that means is he's gonna keep throwing more **** against the wall to see what sticks. Why not? It's next to impossible to get fired from his job as long as he puts in enough weasel words to protect himself. The only fear is some other ass clown comes along who is more willing to make **** up or exaggerate takes his job. At the end of the day, this entire "BB is pissed", "Mac was shopped" narrative has amounted to absolutely nothing, well, except for lots of ad revenue for the media. Felger is saying what he is doing is entertainment. We should all ask ourselves if we feel entertained or not.

 

[upstater1]

It's simple. Mediots have lots of air waves to fill. Most of what they are saying is either totally made up or hugely exaggerated. Note how no one is saying Tom Curran should be fired for the role he played in this whole made-up Mac Jones narrative. What that means is he's gonna keep throwing more **** against the wall to see what sticks. Why not? It's next to impossible to get fired from his job as long as he puts in enough weasel words to protect himself. The only fear is some other ass clown comes along who is more willing to make **** up or exaggerate takes his job. At the end of the day, this entire "BB is pissed", "Mac was shopped" narrative has amounted to absolutely nothing, well, except for lots of ad revenue for the media. Felger is saying what he is doing is entertainment. We should all ask ourselves if we feel entertained or not.

I did acknowledge that is all a dog and pony show for the media.

I am emphasizing however that the stuff they throw against the wall becomes the dominant part of the discussion here.

We wonder why Belichick is never forthcoming. He has every reason to play things close to the vest.

 

[farn]

I don't believe BB when he says something to the press unless it's about football history. That said, I don't think that Mac was on the trading block in any serious way...if at all.

I also don't listen to sports talk radio. Gave it up over 5 years ago. One of the best decisions I ever made.

In fairness to coach, I also believe BB when he’s talking about the intricacies of STs.

 

[Bill Lee]

I did acknowledge that is all a dog and pony show for the media.

Yes, you did. I'm just amplifying the same point.

I am emphasizing however that the stuff they throw against the wall becomes the dominant part of the discussion here.

Because the media knows how to trigger people's fears and emotions, and people can't/won't wait for the facts to come out. It empowers people to feel like they know 'the real deal', they know more than people running the team, etc.

We wonder why Belichick is never forthcoming. He has every reason to play things close to the vest.

Agree. People kept asking why the Pats didn't make a statement supporting Mac. If they did, they'd be playing whack-a-mole. Something else would pop up, they'd have to wack that down. It's a huge waste of time and energy. Let the media run with their current narrative, better than them making up even more narratives.

 

[p8ryts]

So, I'm listening to 98.5 Sportshub this morning, and there are two arguments being made.

1. In regards to Belichick's comments that he is "absolutely" as optimistic and enthusiastic about Mac Jones being his QB as he was last year at about this time, the radio host flat out said, "I don't believe him." The host then went on to say he is more than convinced that the Patriots wanted Will Levis and that if they had managed to trade up for him in the 2nd round, they would've traded Mac away. Mindboggling argument, Levis was there for the taking by the Patriots at absolutely any point. If they wanted him, they could've taken him easily. Never mind that's he's a QB that went in the 2nd round.

2. They have questions about the Gonzalez pick. Why? Because the Patriots failed with Ras-I Dowling and JoeJuan Williams. Apparently, the Patriots do not coach well when it comes to bigger CBs, it's not the skillset they look for, they want smaller shiftier CBs, and they simply can't develop the bigger ones. A weird thing to say when you dont mention Williams' speed versus Gonzalez's speed. Beyond that, the Patriots signed 2 really big CBs in the 2010s who were scuffling with their prior teams, and they resurrected their careers and made them Pro Bowlers: Aqib Talib and Stephen Gilmore. These guys became great players AFTER they signed. The narrative is questionable at best.

I don't want to go after the Patriot radio people too much because I'm sure there are examples of stirring the pot everywhere in the league. But I would argue that Patriots radio is extreme.

Over the last couple of days, I've seen posters here talk about the Bills' excellent drafting over the last several years. Which is funny to me because I'm in Buffalo and I hear the radio guys regularly blast the Bills for drafting defensive players instead of WRs, and furthermore, their defensive players simply don't pan out the way they should. The talk here is that the Bills lost in the playoffs because once Von Miller went down, they had no pressure on the QB and couldn't defend the pass. And this is despite the enormous amount of resources spent to do exactly that.

Look at the Bills' drafting under Beane:

1st: Shaq Lawson
2nd: Reggie Ragland
1st: Tre White
1st: Tremaine Edmunds
3rd: Harrison Phillips
1st: Ed Oliver
2nd: Aj Epenesa
1st: Greg Rousseau
2nd: Boogie Basham
1st: Kaiir Elam
3rd: Terrel Bernard

I mean, what happens when you spend 11 prime picks on defense in a short time span, and only 2 of them work out (Tre White and Edmunds, even though Edmunds has a lot of detractors in Buffalo)?

In New England, we talk about the Bills great drafting. In Buffalo, they talk about the extremely poor drafting by Beane and McDermott.

It really amazes me how talk radio infects and influences the minds of fans. I'm convinced that's what's happened to this board and to Twitter Patriot fans in general. The negativity is overwhelming. The 2 examples I gave above for why the Patriots are failing at the draft and why the Patriots are lying about things, they're logically absurd... but yet this is what passes so often as the truth. All this talk is TWISTED.

The Patriots have scouts looking a players for two or three years in advance. They comprehensively evaluate them at all scouting levels in the organization. Yet these yahoos watch tape and think they know better than the professionals. Even Evan Lazar was obsessing that the Patriots selected White rather than a player he thought they should have picked.

 

[rochrist]

So, I'm listening to 98.5 Sportshub this morning, and there are two arguments being made.

1. In regards to Belichick's comments that he is "absolutely" as optimistic and enthusiastic about Mac Jones being his QB as he was last year at about this time, the radio host flat out said, "I don't believe him." The host then went on to say he is more than convinced that the Patriots wanted Will Levis and that if they had managed to trade up for him in the 2nd round, they would've traded Mac away. Mindboggling argument, Levis was there for the taking by the Patriots at absolutely any point. If they wanted him, they could've taken him easily. Never mind that's he's a QB that went in the 2nd round.

2. They have questions about the Gonzalez pick. Why? Because the Patriots failed with Ras-I Dowling and JoeJuan Williams. Apparently, the Patriots do not coach well when it comes to bigger CBs, it's not the skillset they look for, they want smaller shiftier CBs, and they simply can't develop the bigger ones. A weird thing to say when you dont mention Williams' speed versus Gonzalez's speed. Beyond that, the Patriots signed 2 really big CBs in the 2010s who were scuffling with their prior teams, and they resurrected their careers and made them Pro Bowlers: Aqib Talib and Stephen Gilmore. These guys became great players AFTER they signed. The narrative is questionable at best.

I don't want to go after the Patriot radio people too much because I'm sure there are examples of stirring the pot everywhere in the league. But I would argue that Patriots radio is extreme.

Over the last couple of days, I've seen posters here talk about the Bills' excellent drafting over the last several years. Which is funny to me because I'm in Buffalo and I hear the radio guys regularly blast the Bills for drafting defensive players instead of WRs, and furthermore, their defensive players simply don't pan out the way they should. The talk here is that the Bills lost in the playoffs because once Von Miller went down, they had no pressure on the QB and couldn't defend the pass. And this is despite the enormous amount of resources spent to do exactly that.

Look at the Bills' drafting under Beane:

1st: Shaq Lawson
2nd: Reggie Ragland
1st: Tre White
1st: Tremaine Edmunds
3rd: Harrison Phillips
1st: Ed Oliver
2nd: Aj Epenesa
1st: Greg Rousseau
2nd: Boogie Basham
1st: Kaiir Elam
3rd: Terrel Bernard

I mean, what happens when you spend 11 prime picks on defense in a short time span, and only 2 of them work out (Tre White and Edmunds, even though Edmunds has a lot of detractors in Buffalo)?

In New England, we talk about the Bills great drafting. In Buffalo, they talk about the extremely poor drafting by Beane and McDermott.

It really amazes me how talk radio infects and influences the minds of fans. I'm convinced that's what's happened to this board and to Twitter Patriot fans in general. The negativity is overwhelming. The 2 examples I gave above for why the Patriots are failing at the draft and why the Patriots are lying about things, they're logically absurd... but yet this is what passes so often as the truth. All this talk is TWISTED.

Standard operating procedure for them is to pull some ******** out of their ass and then proceed for weeks as though it's established fact. 'As you know Maz, Bill has lied repeatedly about whether he hates Mac Jones.'

 

[Triumph]

The truth is someplace in the middle of the Bagdad Bob Pats homers where everything is beautiful and mistakes are never made and the Run BB out of Town crowd who call a spade and spade.

 

[Fatmancryin]

Ratings, ratings, ratings, they read Twitter and social media and play off that thinking the ratings are going to be better.

Lou Merloni left weei as he said he was tired of playing the negative villain everyday. That’s what plays well in this market, negativity over every little word or comment.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The Bills have been awful at surrounding Allen with young talent. Their roster is mediocre.

 

[Wozzy]

The average NFL career lasts 3 seasons.

A third of the NFL is made up of UDFA’s.

Do the math.

It’s not just the Pats, Buffalo or any specific team. It’s not because there are Belichick homers who forgive every pick, it’s not a Patriot problem. That’s just dumb. Go look at Andy Reid, Bill Walsh or Parcell’s draft history, they’re all littered with misses. Why?

Because the draft is a crapshoot.

Any process which depends on young humans playing the most violent team sport on the planet is never going to be an infallible process.

There's no accounting for the human element; addiction, ego, vanity, stupidity, laziness, injury... this is why there are no "sure thing" picks, and the draft is a crapshoot.

Talk radio are largely idiots filling up dead air with clickbait trying to draw attention.

 

[Bill Lee]

The average NFL career lasts 3 seasons.

A third of the NFL is made up of UDFA’s.

Do the math.

Some interesting reading:

And so only about 8% of draft picks are players that really make much of a difference beyond replacement value, and only about 30% see much playing time or make a significant contribution to the team.

That means among the 260 or so drafted players each year, only about 2-3 will have Hall of Fame caliber careers, and only about 21 will be undisputedly good picks- and very good but not HoF caliber players.

Overall, only about two dozen players every draft will go on to have significant careers performing at a high level. That’s not a lot - less than one genuinely good player per team each year.

NFL Draft Pick Bust Rate Remains Very High

More analytics haven’t increased the success rate

www.dailynorseman.com

Let's hope we get our one "genuinely good" player this year, regardless of round.

Also:

More Than 50% Of First Round Picks Are Busts And Other Terrifying Draft Statistics

How analytics can help lead to better drafting - especially when there is so much risk in the first round.

theriotreport.com

'

 

[DarrylS]

Sports talk radio has devolved into hotbeds of nontroversy and controversy to try to "gin up" speculation and hysteria.
This AM was listening to some mediot discussing BB's tone of voice when he was discussing Mac Jones last night, something about BB's tone.
They have all hit the ****ter big time and seldom, if ever do they ever provide insight and information..
Of course they had nothing but negative comments about the Bruins and Celtics..

 

[XLIX]

The average NFL career lasts 3 seasons.

FWIW, that is a misleading statistic because of all the practice squad short timer types who fill in for a game or two late in the season bring the average way down.

A better stat is that a player who makes the team's opening day roster as a rookie has a career that lasts something like 7 or 8 seasons. (EDIT: Actual number is 6)

 

[Wozzy]

FWIW, that is a misleading statistic because of all the practice squad short timer types who fill in for a game or two late in the season bring the average way down.

A better stat is that a player who makes the team's opening day roster as a rookie has a career that lasts something like 7 or 8 season.

It’s a fact, it’s not open to interpretation because it’s uncomfortable.

 

[XLIX]

It’s a fact, it’s not open to interpretation because it’s uncomfortable.

Newsflash: A statement can be both factual and misleading at the same time. All I did was add a little context with a couple facts of my own. Is there some reason you're so afraid of having some context added? I looked up the numbers and here are some more facts:

The average length of a player's career who makes his rookie season opening day roster is 6 years (my memory was a little bit off in my original post)
1st round draft picks average over 9 years
Pro Bowlers average over 11 years

Like I said, the overall average is so low because of all the guys who just aren't good enough to play full seasons, but are needed to fill in roles here and there.