Still No # 1WR

[VJCPatriot]

The excuse making for BB has to STOP.

We know that from the reports, right after the Superbowl that Gronk was seriously worn down mentally. That's why he said in the first place that he had to take time to think it over before deciding to keep playing. That did not sound at all like a guy who was 100% coming back!

Any GM worth his salt, and we all have given BB the label 'genius' would immediately move for a backup plan.

Reports are that BB did pursue Cooks but ultimately failed to land him for whatever reason.

This still does not excuse the fact that for YEARS BB also had the opportunity to draft and develop a replacement but failed to do so.

Every year for years we mentioned how Tight End was a need and Gronk wasn't the healthiest guy and BB NEVER drafted a suitable replacement until it was too late.

When BB finally double dipped at Tight End in the draft with Asiasi and Keene, his picks FLOPPED so mightily they couldn't even make the field last year, in a year when the Patriots TEs produced the WORST numbers in the entire NFL.

BB finally admitted failure and signed Hunter Henry and Johnnu Smith to big time free agent contracts in 2021.

The terrible Patriot situation at TE had a lot MORE to do with BB's failure to anticipate and address the issue as a GM than with the timing of Gronk's decision to retire from football.

 

[50-yard-line]

Nah, when I screw up a post I admit it. And, in this case, I'm not discussing an opinion aspect of things. I'm discussing a factual aspect. It's literally part of the job of a GM to bring in player talent, and it's literally not part of the job of a TE to facilitate that in any way.

And it's literally a part of the job of the GM to know where he has to spend the money and how much he has to spend...which is something he couldn't really do in this particular situation since he didn't know the intentions of one of the most important pieces of the team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The excuse making for BB has to STOP.

We know that from the reports, right after the Superbowl that Gronk was seriously worn down mentally. That's why he said in the first place that he had to take time to think it over before deciding to keep playing. That did not sound at all like a guy who was 100% coming back!

Any GM worth his salt, and we all have given BB the label 'genius' would immediately move for a backup plan.

Reports are that BB did pursue Cooks but ultimately failed to land him for whatever reason.

This still does not excuse the fact that for YEARS BB also had the opportunity to draft and develop a replacement but failed to do so.

Every year for years we mentioned how Tight End was a need and Gronk wasn't the healthiest guy and BB NEVER drafted a suitable replacement until it was too late.

When BB finally double dipped at Tight End in the draft with Asiasi and Keene, his picks FLOPPED so mightily they couldn't even make the field last year, in a year when the Patriots TEs produced the WORST numbers in the entire NFL.

BB finally admitted failure and signed Hunter Henry and Johnnu Smith to big time free agent contracts in 2021.

The terrible Patriot situation at TE had a lot MORE to do with BB's failure to anticipate and address the issue as a GM than with the timing of Gronk's decision to retire from football.

There’s always the money factor too. Of course the amount the Patriots were willing to pay/guarantee Gronk in 2019 was a factor in Gronk’s decision.

Going over $10M was too much.

They just spent $25M per year for Smith and Henry…neither of whom are elite.

And yet Bill will continue to get ball washed here…

His GM moves with Brady and Gronk, and replacing them after Next Man Up contract negotiations…have been beyond laughable. There was no real master plan. Yet criticism of Bill causes kicking and screaming fits.

 

[Deus Irae]

And it's literally a part of the job of the GM to know where he has to spend the money and how much he has to spend...which is something he couldn't really do in this particular situation since he didn't know the intentions of one of the most important pieces of the team.

Tight end is not a one player job in the Patriots system, and the Patriots have shown a willingness to invest big in that position, on multiple occasions, including just this offseason. You keep ignoring that. Why could that possibly be?


Gronk = NOT the GM
BB = GM
GM = talent procurer
Gronk ≠ talent procurer
Patriots ≠ 1 TE system
Patriots - frequently willing to invest high picks and good money in multiple TEs


Yet we're supposed to believe that it's Gronk's fault Belichick couldn't fix the TE position.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Gronk hit nasty contract disputes multiple times with the Patriots, was IR’d in 2012, 2013, and 2016, with career threatening injuries, and was going to be traded in 2018 (before he nixed it). Meanwhile, during his time in NE, the Patriots gave Hernandez a huge extension, signed Martellus Bennett, and signed Scott Chandler.

But how, oh how, could the Patriots ever have guessed they might need a tight end on the roster better than Ryan Izzo?

 

[captain stone]

Gronk hit nasty contract disputes multiple times with the Patriots, was IR’d in 2012, 2013, and 2016, with career threatening injuries, and was going to be traded in 2018 (before he nixed it). Meanwhile, during his time in NE, the Patriots gave Hernandez a huge extension, signed Martellus Bennett, and signed Scott Chandler.

But how, oh how, could the Patriots ever have guessed they might need a tight end on the roster better than Ryan Izzo?

Yep.

From 2013-18, the best multi-year backup Gronk ever had was...HooMan(!), in 2013-14...In 2015, the depth - Scott Chandler, Mike Williams & Assante Cleveland - became an AFC Championship-killing Joke after HooMan was traded to NO two games into the season, however...

Could've had Austin Hooper in 2016 with the draft pick used on Cyrus the Virus...Thank Ganja for Martysaurus Rex that season...But that was Nothing compared to the Whopper of a ****-Up made during the following year's draft...

Whopper #2 came during that horrible, Horrible 3rd round of the lousy 2020 draft...

All this explains why Billy had to open the Early-Bird's checkbook to fix the position...Because he proved incapable of fixing it himself.

 

[stephens44]

Why does everyone think Keane and Asiasi are flops? Because they weren't Gronk as rookies? Having a QB that can run and 3 TE's with speed presents a pretty difficult situation for any Defense. Take a look at this Pats offense without a true #1 WR, lots of serviceable receivers and picture this with same formation, less passes, more runs. I bet we see a derivative of this with multiple TE's and lots of mismatches.

How do the Jets and Dolphins build their Defenses? To stop the pass happy Bills? Or stop the run heavy Pats? I'm guessing they build to stop the Bills and we'll benefit. Pretty sure you'll see Cam in the spread with 3 TE's at some point, running and dinking-dunking very effectively.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why does everyone think Keane and Asiasi are flops? Because they weren't Gronk as rookies? Having a QB that can run and 3 TE's with speed presents a pretty difficult situation for any Defense. Take a look at this Pats offense without a true #1 WR, lots of serviceable receivers and picture this with same formation, less passes, more runs. I bet we see a derivative of this with multiple TE's and lots of mismatches.

How do the Jets and Dolphins build their Defenses? To stop the pass happy Bills? Or stop the run heavy Pats? I'm guessing they build to stop the Bills and we'll benefit. Pretty sure you'll see Cam in the spread with 3 TE's at some point, running and dinking-dunking very effectively.

You figure BB spent a bajillion dollars at the TE position because he thinks Kean and Asiasi are breakout TEs just waiting to happen?

 

[captain stone]

You figure BB spent a bajillion dollars at the TE position because he thinks Kean and Asiasi are breakout TEs just waiting to happen?

Yep; and if Billy had drafted Adam Trautman & Harrison Bryant (and in the process saved himself Multiple draft picks) instead of Assy-assy & Keane, then he damn sure would Not have paid what he paid for Both Henry AND Smith...One of them maybe; but absolutely Not both of them.

 

[stephens44]

You figure BB spent a bajillion dollars at the TE position because he thinks Kean and Asiasi are breakout TEs just waiting to happen?

Don't know, but the sample size of their abilities is too small for anyone to do anything other than speculate. Belichick values competition at every position, there should be some pretty good battles for playing time at TE, H back and Fullback. I recall having Graham, Watson and Fauria on the same roster and they still fit Dan Klecko in there too. Just makes sense to have a blend of young guys on the cheap and veterans as well. At TE it looks like the old formula in the pre-Gronk era, not a replacement of Gronk.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Don't know, but the sample size of their abilities is too small for anyone to do anything other than speculate. Belichick values competition at every position, there should be some pretty good battles for playing time at TE, H back and Fullback. I recall having Graham, Watson and Fauria on the same roster and they still fit Dan Klecko in there too. Just makes sense to have a blend of young guys on the cheap and veterans as well. At TE it looks like the old formula in the pre-Gronk era, not a replacement of Gronk.

you can polish tin day and night for as long as you want, but the bottom line is it will never become gold!

 

[Deus Irae]

Don't know, but the sample size of their abilities is too small for anyone to do anything other than speculate. Belichick values competition at every position, there should be some pretty good battles for playing time at TE, H back and Fullback. I recall having Graham, Watson and Fauria on the same roster and they still fit Dan Klecko in there too. Just makes sense to have a blend of young guys on the cheap and veterans as well. At TE it looks like the old formula in the pre-Gronk era, not a replacement of Gronk.

Ok, so you're trolling. Got it.

 

[Pats1971]

Why does everyone think Keane and Asiasi are flops? Because they weren't Gronk as rookies? Having a QB that can run and 3 TE's with speed presents a pretty difficult situation for any Defense. Take a look at this Pats offense without a true #1 WR, lots of serviceable receivers and picture this with same formation, less passes, more runs. I bet we see a derivative of this with multiple TE's and lots of mismatches.

How do the Jets and Dolphins build their Defenses? To stop the pass happy Bills? Or stop the run heavy Pats? I'm guessing they build to stop the Bills and we'll benefit. Pretty sure you'll see Cam in the spread with 3 TE's at some point, running and dinking-dunking very effectively.

Because at some point you have to be able to pass, its not 1975. This is a passing league, if it worked to have little passing and mostly running teams would do that, nobody does. Basically at this point in time, the pats have no choice but to do that, but its not the ideal situation to win.

 

[stephens44]

Ok, so you're trolling. Got it.

Nope...seems your replies to me fit that description. You fired your little opinionated put down, feel all better now? lol

 

[stephens44]

Because at some point you have to be able to pass, its not 1975. This is a passing league, if it worked to have little passing and mostly running teams would do that, nobody does. Basically at this point in time, the pats have no choice but to do that, but its not the ideal situation to win.

So, you missed the 2004 game I linked where we didn't have a true #1 receiver and had multiple TEs? The one where a running team came out in the spread and dinked and dunked right down the field? I expect a similar approach with all these TE's creating mismatches with LB's and safeties for Newton to RPO to great effect. It may very well look like the 04 game I linked, only with the RPO replacing the traditional drop back. The personnel the Pats have vs the defenses in the AFC East, this appears to makes sense, at least to me.

 

[Pats1971]

So, you missed the 2004 game I linked where we didn't have a true #1 receiver and had multiple TEs? The one where a running team came out in the spread and dinked and dunked right down the field? I expect a similar approach with all these TE's creating mismatches with LB's and safeties for Newton to RPO to great effect. It may very well look like the 04 game I linked, only with the RPO replacing the traditional drop back. The personnel the Pats have vs the defenses in the AFC East, this appears to makes sense, at least to me.

Well dink and dunk is a bit much, we did not really have a deep threat, but in order to do quick passes and pre snap reads, Cam is going to have to do something he has never been able to do before. So no, I do not see it looking like 2004 because we had an accurate QB who could put people in good positions prior to the snap and get passes off quickly. We do not have that now with Cam. That is no, nor has it ever been Cam's game. Brady could get by without having great talent at receiver, it does not mean everyone can. I am not putting down your thoughts, just saying, I am not sure we have the QB to do that. Maybe that is the plan for jones.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nope...seems your replies to me fit that description. You fired your little opinionated put down, feel all better now? lol

Belichick spent more than $32m in guaranteed money, on two players, at the position. You would have us believe that he did that based upon nothing but speculation that he needed to because of positional deficiency. Given all of BB's history, that's absolutely a troll position to take.

And following that up with

I recall having Graham, Watson and Fauria on the same roster and they still fit Dan Klecko in there too

Is pure under-the-bridge stuff.

 

[stephens44]

Belichick spent more than $32m in guaranteed money, on two players, at the position. You would have us believe that he did that based upon nothing but speculation that he needed to because of positional deficiency. Given all of BB's history, that's absolutely a troll position to take.

And following that up with



Is pure under-the-bridge stuff.

Colorful stuff.... still just an opinion based on speculation. Time will tell.

 

[stephens44]

Well dink and dunk is a bit much, we did not really have a deep threat, but in order to do quick passes and pre snap reads, Cam is going to have to do something he has never been able to do before. So no, I do not see it looking like 2004 because we had an accurate QB who could put people in good positions prior to the snap and get passes off quickly. We do not have that now with Cam. That is no, nor has it ever been Cam's game. Brady could get by without having great talent at receiver, it does not mean everyone can. I am not putting down your thoughts, just saying, I am not sure we have the QB to do that. Maybe that is the plan for jones.

Fair enough, I think I’m on the right track but its just speculation in May. Just a boring time to grind through. Good thoughts though.