Stephon Gilmore

[Biffins]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Gilmore being the only change to the secondary is little proof of its poor play of 2017. What is the avg time QBs have had to throw compared to last year? What were the comparable scores -- was the opposing O forced into one dimensional play calling? LB play? Playcalling? etc

Call those penalties lazy, whatever, maybe it has an element of laziness. But you can get those kind of 'hands to the face' all! over! the! place!. A ref making that kind of call, bailing out a team of a 4th down with 2 minutes to go is! a! travesty! I know it, you know it, anyone not trying to grind an ax knows it. A ticky tack penalty away from the play that had no material effect on anything for a virtual split second graze across a facemask? On a last few minute critical play? Please stop with definitively blaming that on "lazy". Far above all else that's just poor officiating, period. However, crappy officiating happens and the Patriots are to blame for being in that position to have the game affected by poor officiating.
As far as Gilmore? The jury is still out. He has had some good moments and not so good moments. But he was hardly the only reason the D keeps giving up big plays.

Give me a break. A rule is a rule. Gilmore put his hands on the facemask. That was a penalty. You call it poor officiating. That's really nonsense. The official is not required to judge the context. If you want to change the rules, that's another thing. Under current rules it was a penalty and was correctly called.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Gilmore so far

 

[Biffins]

He leaves Buffalo and their secondary is the best they have had in years. I will never understand the lack of awareness on this play by the D. This is not even something a NCAA division III team will do. WTF MP, SB, and BB?

Exact same thing the Saints did on one of Fozzy's 2 career TDs. Apparently Pats defense doesn't study film.

Carolina Panthers running back Fozzy Whittaker flies for a 26-yard touchdown

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[Jadex9]

The poster that said Gilmore was going to Torpedo this defense... Was spot on.

I hate to be so pragmatic, but Gilmore has never been the type of player who deserves a 40 MIL guarantee, I have absolutely no idea WTF BB was thinking with this signing. All the potential in the world doesnt mean jack if the person doesnt want to deliver.

Gilmore is who we knew he was in Buffalo, he gives up on plays, passes the buck and has really really bad Football IQ.

I want to be positive and optimistic, but the guy never cleaned up his act in Buffalo, its insane to think hes going to clean up his act now, hes just going to collect a huge check and give it a half way effort like he has been doing.

Hes been getting burnt since the first damn game against KC, and I think its starting to get into the head of the D that this guy is making that kind of money for that level of play.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Call those penalties lazy, whatever, maybe it has an element of laziness. But you can get those kind of 'hands to the face' all! over! the! place!. A ref making that kind of call, bailing out a team of a 4th down with 2 minutes to go is! a! travesty!

The first one on Gilmore absolutely was a ticky-tack thing that shouldn't have been called. However, once the refs have established they'll be calling ticky-tack stuff like that, WHAT THE HELL WAS GILMORE DOING PUTTING HIS HANDS UP IN THE RECEIVER'S FACE AGAIN? Especially in a high-leverage situation like that. You don't give the ref the opportunity to screw you.

 

[Tony2046]

The first one on Gilmore absolutely was a ticky-tack thing that shouldn't have been called. However, once the refs have established they'll be calling ticky-tack stuff like that, WHAT THE HELL WAS GILMORE DOING PUTTING HIS HANDS UP IN THE RECEIVER'S FACE AGAIN? Especially in a high-leverage situation like that. You don't give the ref the opportunity to screw you.

I'm not even sure that last one was "ticky tack". The receivers head snapped back. Stupid penalty to take.

 

[Angelpats]

The first one on Gilmore absolutely was a ticky-tack thing that shouldn't have been called. However, once the refs have established they'll be calling ticky-tack stuff like that, WHAT THE HELL WAS GILMORE DOING PUTTING HIS HANDS UP IN THE RECEIVER'S FACE AGAIN? Especially in a high-leverage situation like that. You don't give the ref the opportunity to screw you.

They are taught to not repeat the same mistake twice and it was ridiculous that he did the same thing on almost the exact same play just a few minutes earlier. That's just low football IQ. I said he wasn't that good previous but someone fans just unconditionally love our players no matter their faults. We would have won this game if not for his stupidity, we can forgive one error but twice is just asking the team to do too much.

 

[supafly]

The poster that said Gilmore was going to Torpedo this defense... Was spot on.

I hate to be so pragmatic, but Gilmore has never been the type of player who deserves a 40 MIL guarantee, I have absolutely no idea WTF BB was thinking with this signing. All the potential in the world doesnt mean jack if the person doesnt want to deliver.

Gilmore is who we knew he was in Buffalo, he gives up on plays, passes the buck and has really really bad Football IQ.

I want to be positive and optimistic, but the guy never cleaned up his act in Buffalo, its insane to think hes going to clean up his act now, hes just going to collect a huge check and give it a half way effort like he has been doing.

Hes been getting burnt since the first damn game against KC, and I think its starting to get into the head of the D that this guy is making that kind of money for that level of play.

I agree that Gilmore seemed like a bit of an odd choice in terms of choosing an outsider who you were going to back up the Brinks truck for.

That said, he does have size, talent, etc, and in BB we trust.

 

[mihap]

Disagreed, because I don't think he's going to get it. I think he'll get his butt chewed for those lazy penalties, and he'll take it the wrong way and get his feelings hurt and sulk and not fix anything. He'll get his butt chewed for following McCaffrey and he'll feel butthurt and sulk. He's talented, but he's toxic.

I think you are right. And if he couldnt play in Rex Ryan scheme in buffalo(LAst year players were complaining that his schemes are too complex) i dont think that he will be capable of playing Patricia&BB schemes here. Other than man coverage and even here he 2x times hand in the face.
Some will say its not time to panic, its still end of september and we have to wait till december, but TOm Brady is getting sacked like never before(another problem- Oline suck) so he wont make to december

 

[supafly]

What a surprise. He seemed so impressive on paper. Who could possibly have predicted this?

The team itself seemed impressive on paper. So much, that some idiots were talking about the possibility of a 19-0 season.

Because...dream teams always work out in the NFL.

 

[thecore762]

The poster that said Gilmore was going to Torpedo this defense... Was spot on.

I hate to be so pragmatic, but Gilmore has never been the type of player who deserves a 40 MIL guarantee, I have absolutely no idea WTF BB was thinking with this signing. All the potential in the world doesnt mean jack if the person doesnt want to deliver.

Gilmore is who we knew he was in Buffalo, he gives up on plays, passes the buck and has really really bad Football IQ.

I want to be positive and optimistic, but the guy never cleaned up his act in Buffalo, its insane to think hes going to clean up his act now, hes just going to collect a huge check and give it a half way effort like he has been doing.

Hes been getting burnt since the first damn game against KC, and I think its starting to get into the head of the D that this guy is making that kind of money for that level of play.

BB in his career never struck gold on corners except the one year when we had Revis and Browner and we did pretty good.
Letting Logan Ryan go was a mistake.

 

[luuked]

Give me a break. A rule is a rule. Gilmore put his hands on the facemask. That was a penalty. You call it poor officiating. That's really nonsense. The official is not required to judge the context. If you want to change the rules, that's another thing. Under current rules it was a penalty and was correctly called.

Wonder how big the backlash from the geniuses here on the board would have been on Logan Ryan if that double facemask against Sanu would have eradicated the holding on Long in the SB.

 

[luuked]

BB in his career never struck gold on corners except the one year when we had Revis and Browner and we did pretty good.
Letting Logan Ryan go was a mistake.

His skills (good-to-great inside, competent outside) dont match up with the contract he signed. If you could have had him for 5-6M APY it is a different story but not for what he signed in Tennessee. Also given how Butler played the offseason there is a good chance Gilmore still gets signed for when Butler is gone next year.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

The first one on Gilmore absolutely was a ticky-tack thing that shouldn't have been called. However, once the refs have established they'll be calling ticky-tack stuff like that, WHAT THE HELL WAS GILMORE DOING PUTTING HIS HANDS UP IN THE RECEIVER'S FACE AGAIN? Especially in a high-leverage situation like that. You don't give the ref the opportunity to screw you.

Good assessment QM -- I hadn't considered it. Gilmore does get a knock for having weak penalty #1 already in his mind and subsequently not keeping it sufficiently in mind at such a critical time, the end of the game. Gilmore definitely doesn't get a pass for grazing hand to the face#2 he did commit. But I still think that's a crappy thing for the refs to do -- to interject themselves when no interject was needed. Call what's flagrant otherwise let them play. The final minute holding was another one of either egregious ref-ing or interjecting. It's like that crew had no concept of letting the end of a game be decided by players/the teams. Take downs by an OL, totally yanking jersey by a defender -- the obvious. Ticky tack penalties in a tight game with under 2 mins to go. WTF?

But it's important to again say all teams get jobbed by the refs, and the Patriots were in that position because of their inexplicably befuddled defense for the 4th week in a row. The big plays are mounting. Big plays are probably almost, semi-akin to turnovers. Keep giving up big plays and you suck the life and momentum out of the D and the team in general. Finally, that this Newton led offense (this is not Newton offense of 3 years ago). could be made to look like they were executing play calls like the 49ers of the mid 80s? Comical...

 

[NE-VT]

His skills (good-to-great inside, competent outside) dont match up with the contract he signed. If you could have had him for 5-6M APY it is a different story but not for what he signed in Tennessee. Also given how Butler played the offseason there is a good chance Gilmore still gets signed for when Butler is gone next year.

Ryan was still good enough on the outside to play 86% of the snaps last year. The next highest CB excluding Butler was Rowe at 43%. Sometimes competence and doing your job is enough. There is at least a chance that overpaying Ryan would have worked out better than overpaying Gilmore. I am saying this as someone who still reserves hope that Gilmore will turn it around.

I am not even criticizing BB's move here per say. Sometimes pushing your chips in is the right move, even if you don't win the hand. It is possible that BB made the "right" decision, yet still regrets the decision.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Bills film room: Breaking down Patriots WR Chris Hogan's TD vs. Stephon Gilmore

OK come on -- Hogan had that TD and Gilmore isn't the first DB to look elsewhere to say WTF, where was my help. These guys are out there playing high emotions. Look at Brady when a target receiver isn't in the right spot.
Come on everyone, please stop scapegoating Gilmore. It is still WAYYYYY too early for this kind of chicken little BS. The guy came from a program that teaches players nothing about 'do your damn job' and 'leave the BS at the door'. Give him some time -- guy looks to have great tools. Let's see what BB's Staff can do with it.

The story of the Zen Master and the Little Boy:
"There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see." Two years later, the boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, "How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see." Then, a war breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, "How wonderful."

 

[luuked]

Ryan was still good enough on the outside to play 86% of the snaps last year. The next highest CB excluding Butler was Rowe at 43%. Sometimes competence and doing your job is enough. There is at least a chance that overpaying Ryan would have worked out better than overpaying Gilmore. I am saying this as someone who still reserves hope that Gilmore will turn it around.

I am not even criticizing BB's move here per say. Sometimes pushing your chips in is the right move, even if you don't win the hand. It is possible that BB made the "right" decision, yet still regrets the decision.

Except Rowe was a late acquisition and injured for some time. I am the last person on this board to have an issue with Logan Ryan as can be evidenced in many game threads last year. He was great value on a rookie contract for what he was able to do but would have been little value at the contract he got offered from the Titans. And ultimately value is king in a league with a hard salary cap.

That being said I totally agree with your point about competence and consistency being often more important than skill. Personally I would have loved to keep the Rutgers boys together simply because their communication was flawless. And this is something to remember in all the shock about the miscommunications. Harmon, DMac and Ryan played together for many, many years for all of this to work as flawlessly. This iteration of the secondary has been through 4 games so far. Yes, going through film and practice helps but nothing compares to actual games.

 

[DarrylS]

The d backfield this year is virtually the same as last year, except for the Gilmore addition and the Ryan subtraction, it does not take a genius to figure out where the problem lies..

OTOH Butler often looks outplayed by bigger and more physical receivers, everyone is leaving players uncovered.. there is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[raduray]

OK come on -- Hogan had that TD and Gilmore isn't the first DB to look elsewhere to say WTF, where was my help. These guys are out there playing high emotions. Look at Brady when a target receiver isn't in the right spot.
Come on everyone, please stop scapegoating Gilmore. It is still WAYYYYY too early for this kind of chicken little BS. The guy came from a program that teaches players nothing about 'do your damn job' and 'leave the BS at the door'. Give him some time -- guy looks to have great tools. Let's see what BB's Staff can do with it.

The story of the Zen Master and the Little Boy:
"There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see." Two years later, the boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, "How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see." Then, a war breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, "How wonderful."

That second hands to the face penalty with the game on the line was inexcusable. Period.