Stephon Gilmore

[Biffins]

This guy is really concerning.

First of all he has the highest snap %age on defense, which makes sense since we're paying him so much. But it causes a problem since if he's misfiring, it has a ripple effect on the game. Secondly he caused the biggest adjustment in this defense from last year since he took Butler's spot (who had the highest snap %age last 2 years) and Butler had to adjust to new role. Butler's play has finally improved as he's adjusting.

Meanwhile Gilmore's addition has caused an overall breakdown in communication. Butler/Rowe/McCourty/Harmon/Chung were all here last year. The addition is Gilmore and the decline is drastic. The most obvious example today was Fozzy Whittaker's TD screen. Gilmore adjusted late to McCaffrey being split wide, then he pointed McCaffrey out to McCourty as he moved closer. Then McCaffrey went into motion behind Cam and Gilmore bit hard and started pointing wildly at McCaffrey to everyone and McCourty started running to the far side to follow McCaffrey but for some reason Gilmore himself followed as well (after he had already directed McCourty to follow for no reason). Meanwhile on the near side there was a complete breakdown in defense as BOTH Whittaker (who was being setup for a screen) and the TE (who was designed to block for the screen but was uncovered and had noone to block) were completely open.

The worst part? Panthers did THIS EXACT PLAY versus the Saints on Dec 7, 2014 which ALSO WENT FOR A TOUCHDOWN. The same RB split wide, who comes into motion and runs behind Cam, who fakes the throw to him before throwing to Fozzy Whittaker on the screen. And Fozzy got a TD then too. One of his 2 career TDs. You would think the Pats defense would have seen this video and known what was coming if it takes me 5 seconds to find it. I mean, Fozzy only has 2 frickin career TDs.

Carolina Panthers running back Fozzy Whittaker flies for a 26-yard touchdown

And yet we were clueless. This is what McCourty said about this TD after the game "“Everybody motioned. It was a bad play. It had to look like a couple of idiots out there. … It was a simple motion. It wasn’t … it was bad.”


Gilmore might be athletically gift and all, and move his hips fluidly and blah blah whatever, and as long as it's a simple man coverage 1v1 he seems ok, but the moment the offense plays trickery or you have to hand off coverage or adjust, he struggles. Compare this to the beautiful Butler interception where he read the QB's eyes, dropped the guy he was assigned to cover and doubled the guy on the wheel route instead and picked Cam off.......... all on his own skill. He wasn't designed to double him.

Meanwhile even more bluntly, Gilmore quite clearly caused the crucial game losing penalties. Twice he put hands to the face when he or the guy he was covering were not involved in the play whatsoever. There were lazy penalties from a guy used to being lazy. Gilmore knew the ball wasn't coming his way, the receiver he was covering knew, and Gilmore lazing put up his hand, as if to say play is over. His fingers barely grazed the screen the first time, and second time it was also not much of a touch. The hands to the face weren't designed to give him some sort of advantage which he was hoping to get away with, in a play he was involved in the action. These were lazy penalties. Contrast that with e.g. Gronk subtly pressing into Kuechly and then breaking out hoping to get away with but getting called for OPI. Next time he'll try to be more subtle.

Hugely disappointed by Gilmore's lazy penalties and the second of those penalties effectively cost us the game. Panthers would have punted from deep in their territory after the 3rd down sack. Tom had just taken us twice downfield for TDs. Their defense was getting gassed. I am certain we'd be the one ending the game with a FG win.

How do you fix laziness. How do you fix a guy unable to breakdown complex plays and trickery and only used to rely on his athletic prowess in man-to-man matchups. Biggest of all, with his salary hit, and guaranteed money, he's not going anywhere this year or next year. So somehow we have to teach him this stuff to get him improved. I am sure he'll get yelled at and get his ear chewed off but will it make a difference? And at what point do you start blaming the secondary coaches as well. Does BB have the balls to fire/replace his own son?

Gilmore seems to be a good not great player for which we probably overpaid. That much is history now and can't be changed. What can be done to improve him?

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[Richard Camembert]

Disagree, there’s no steam.

From him getting burned, you know.

Seriously this guy is going to get it, but it’s going to take time. He may not have had any useful coaching prior to coming here. This system is tough to learn and the core group is now missing Ryan and Butler now has expectations on him and they haven’t adjusted yet. I for one am looking forward to the guy learning how to mesh with the rest of the backfield. Also, I think part of playing CB is taunting and getting in guys’ heads, so that flag on him away from the play doesn’t bother me so so much, and it probably shouldn’t have been flagged. Just some speed bumps to roll out.

 

[Boomer B]

It's mental errors. I'd like to think as he learns the D better he will improve, but some of the same errors he's making now are what we heard from Bills fans. The thing we love about Butler is the competitiveness and the game smarts. I wanna see some of that from Gilmore. Hopefully the coaches can get it from him.

It's not been pretty, but hopefully he is committed to improve and gets it together soon.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Gilmore being the only change to the secondary is little proof of its poor play of 2017. What is the avg time QBs have had to throw compared to last year? What were the comparable scores -- was the opposing O forced into one dimensional play calling? LB play? Playcalling? etc

Call those penalties lazy, whatever, maybe it has an element of laziness. But you can get those kind of 'hands to the face' all! over! the! place!. A ref making that kind of call, bailing out a team of a 4th down with 2 minutes to go is! a! travesty! I know it, you know it, anyone not trying to grind an ax knows it. A ticky tack penalty away from the play that had no material effect on anything for a virtual split second graze across a facemask? On a last few minute critical play? Please stop with definitively blaming that on "lazy". Far above all else that's just poor officiating, period. However, crappy officiating happens and the Patriots are to blame for being in that position to have the game affected by poor officiating.
As far as Gilmore? The jury is still out. He has had some good moments and not so good moments. But he was hardly the only reason the D keeps giving up big plays.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Gilmore being the only change to the secondary is little proof of its poor play of 2017. What is the avg time QBs have had to throw compared to last year? What were the comparable scores -- was the opposing O forced into one dimensional play calling? LB play? Playcalling? etc

Call those penalties lazy, whatever, maybe it has an element of laziness. But you can get those kind of 'hands to the face' all! over! the! place!. A ref making that kind of call, bailing out a team of a 4th down with 2 minutes to go is! a! travesty! I know it, you know it, anyone not trying to grind an ax knows it. A ticky tack penalty away from the play that had no material effect on anything for a virtual split second graze across a facemask? On a last few minute critical play? Please stop with definitively blaming that on "lazy". Far above all else that's just poor officiating, period. However, crappy officiating happens and the Patriots are to blame for being in that position to have the game affected by poor officiating.
As far as Gilmore? The jury is still out. He has had some good moments and not so good moments. But he was hardly the only reason the D keeps giving up big plays.

Don't leave it up to boger. I can only imagine when they play in Denver or Pittsburgh. The officials will screw this team in any tight moment.

 

[K. Dog]

What a surprise. He seemed so impressive on paper. Who could possibly have predicted this?

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Don't leave it up to boger. I can only imagine when they play in Denver or Pittsburgh. The officials will screw this team in any tight moment.

I'm not buying it.
Do I think the NFL gives directives to the Refs that could, potentially, be directed at the Patriots? No one needs look further than Gronk-OPI last year to see the obvious "directive" (watch the elite NFL receivers executing OPI all over the place). But if the NFL wants to screw the Patriots they could have easily derailed the SB last year on calls that would have been arguably valid.
No, IMHO this was an individual crew and even individual refs 'looking'. When Refs let them play except for the obvious, the game is at its best. When you get a crew trying to make points of emphasis or carry out directives you get a degraded game.

But I have to say again I will not blame this on sucky officiating. A D that plays that bad (allowing that many long plays) doesn't get to look elsewhere for blame, they just get to look in the mirror.

 

[Betterthanmost]

He leaves Buffalo and their secondary is the best they have had in years. I will never understand the lack of awareness on this play by the D. This is not even something a NCAA division III team will do. WTF MP, SB, and BB?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

He leaves Buffalo and their secondary is the best they have had in years. I will never understand the lack of awareness on this play by the D. This is not even something a NCAA division III team will do. WTF MP, SB, and BB?

Pathetic coaching

 

[Rusty Coupe]

But what happened next was what really caught the attention of fans and the coaching staff. Gilmore’s immediate reaction to the catch and the subsequent touchdown was absurd.

The ball is caught by Hogan at the 10-yard line, and Stephon appears to have a chance to make the tackle near the five-yard line. Instead, he turns and looks to Meeks to complain about him not providing help.

The ball is caught by Hogan at the 10-yard line, and Gilmore appears to have a chance to make the tackle near the five-yard line.

Instead, he turns and looks to Meeks to complain about the apparent blown coverage.

Bills film room: Breaking down Patriots WR Chris Hogan's TD vs. Stephon Gilmore

 

[Betterthanmost]

Will you believe that on that play he was at fault? Rex said on his weekly program when he was at the Bills that they lineup as cover 2 and was supposed to check to cover 4 but guess what? Gilmore missed the check and got confused.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

He leaves Buffalo and their secondary is the best they have had in years. I will never understand the lack of awareness on this play by the D. This is not even something a NCAA division III team will do. WTF MP, SB, and BB?

Wow. Is there an incoming tidal wave or what? Pee wee stuff.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Will you believe that on that play he was at fault? Rex said on his weekly program when he was at the Bills that they lineup as cover 2 and was supposed to check to cover 4 but guess what? Gilmore missed the check and got confused.

If he is confused, (he may very well be) his confusion is spreading like a cold.

 

[n6249c]

Disagree, there’s no steam.

From him getting burned, you know.

Seriously this guy is going to get it, but it’s going to take time. He may not have had any useful coaching prior to coming here. This system is tough to learn and the core group is now missing Ryan and Butler now has expectations on him and they haven’t adjusted yet. I for one am looking forward to the guy learning how to mesh with the rest of the backfield. Also, I think part of playing CB is taunting and getting in guys’ heads, so that flag on him away from the play doesn’t bother me so so much, and it probably shouldn’t have been flagged. Just some speed bumps to roll out.

Disagreed, because I don't think he's going to get it. I think he'll get his butt chewed for those lazy penalties, and he'll take it the wrong way and get his feelings hurt and sulk and not fix anything. He'll get his butt chewed for following McCaffrey and he'll feel butthurt and sulk. He's talented, but he's toxic.

 

[n6249c]

What a surprise. He seemed so impressive on paper. Who could possibly have predicted this?

Any Buffalo fan.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Disagreed, because I don't think he's going to get it. I think he'll get his butt chewed for those lazy penalties, and he'll take it the wrong way and get his feelings hurt and sulk and not fix anything. He'll get his butt chewed for following McCaffrey and he'll feel butthurt and sulk. He's talented, but he's toxic.

Do you think bill would bench him? Rowe right now doesn't look healthy.

 

[n6249c]

Pathetic coaching

or good coaching and pathetic execution.
given that the coaches have not been pathetic in the past, with quite a few years of history not being pathetic. Seems the issue started when the personnel changed.

 

[PatsDeb]

An accurate assessment. At least 3 penalties on him today.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

or good coaching and pathetic execution.
given that the coaches have not been pathetic in the past, with quite a few years of history not being pathetic. Seems the issue started when the personnel changed.

Except most of the personnel in the secondary is the same, except for Gilmore.

If you blame Gilmore, then you have to harshly criticize bb the gm for giving him a record patriots contract and stinking up the joint

I would argue mccourty, Harmon, butler, Chung, Gilmore have a history of playing well individually with pro bowl appearances from 3 of These players...so what gives?