State of the AFC – did the Broncos actually improve through free agency?

[Deus Irae]

The Broncos added TJ Ward to their safety list, and they've chosen not to re-sign Adams or Huff. Both are still unsigned, despite the safety issues around the league. Is there anyone so blinded by homerism that they can't admit that's a huge upgrade on paper?

 

[Brady6]

The Broncos added TJ Ward to their safety list, and they've chosen not to re-sign Adams or Huff. Both are still unsigned, despite the safety issues around the league. Is there anyone so blinded by homerism that they can't admit that's a huge upgrade on paper?

Ward is absolutely an upgrade, mainly in the run game however. He is a box safety and an outstanding one at that but I am still not sure how much he is going to help their pass defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

Montee Ball had 559 yards on 120 carries, and 20 catches for 145 yards, as the RB2 in the Broncos rotation. Yes, he's got to prove that he can hold up under an increased load, but his numbers show that he's got an absolutely legitimate shot at replacing Moreno. And, with Manning's quick release, the blocking issues usually associated with younger RBs should be minimized.

The issue for the Broncos at RB is likely to be one of depth, which will, almost certainly, be addressed either during of after the draft. It's not as if RBs are commanding big money this year. Right now, the Broncos are basically the Patriots, without a 3rd down RB, when it comes to the position, with Hillman being their Bodden.

 

[Deus Irae]

The one area the Broncos are clearly going to need to fix, compared to last season, is the MLB spot. With both Woodyard and Lenon either gone or unsigned, they need to address the position. There are players still available in FA, and there are prospects in the draft. The losses of Woodyard and Lenon are not big, but they are losses.

As it is with the Patriots, LB is a need position for the Broncos. Fortunately for both teams, it's an area with available solutions, though the solutions (Angerer, Henderson, unknown draftee, etc...) come with issues and questions.

 

[JoeSixPat]

They may have improved...big "IFs."

Bingo.

And there's a LOT of IFs on that team.

Now to be fair, we have a lot of IFs on our team too - and pretty much every team does. And I also would have LOVED it if we grabbed Ware - I've always liked him as a player right from the initial draft where Parcells took him....

But this thread concept is right on target - they're better IF... - and they are worse IF... (and my guess is that the "worse IFs" might win out this season)

And perhaps more importantly, if my memory from previous seasons serves me, you do NOT want to be the team that gets the "most improved on paper" award because those teams always seem to implode, year in year out

So I'm willing to give the Broncos that award for sure!

 

[Rob0729]

Broncos don't have to improve that much to beat the Pats again. The key from the last game was Knighton vs the weak interior OL. Knighton is still there and the OL is still the same. With the Pats improved D, their offense wont score as many but the achilles hill of the Pats offense is still there.

I don't know if I agree with this premise. The Broncos faced the Pats without Gronk and Dobson was hobbled. They may be the two best receivers the Pats have going into this season. Also LaFell should be an upgrade over who ever started opposite Dobson. Knighton and the Denver defense was able to stop the run and Brady's receivers were able to be shut down long enough to let the pressure get to him. If the Pats are at full strength even before they add with the draft, it won't be that easy to shut down the offense.

Also, Knightonwas only dominant for a short stretch of time (granted the right time). No guarantees he will be that good next season.

 

[Rob0729]

The Broncos added TJ Ward to their safety list, and they've chosen not to re-sign Adams or Huff. Both are still unsigned, despite the safety issues around the league. Is there anyone so blinded by homerism that they can't admit that's a huge upgrade on paper?

I know you can't see this, but why do constantly like to call people blind homers and other insults because they don't agree with your position?

 

[Deus Irae]

Talib is an upgrade over DRC, but Harris will be coming back from his ACL injury, and that happened late in the year. This is probably the biggest open question for the 2014 Broncos in comparison to the 2013 Broncos (with apologies to any ILB fanatics out there). Losing Bailey and letting Jammer go are shoulder shrug worthy, and there are still a few CBs worth signing for depth that are available on the market, but the Broncos will need Harris' knee to improve over the course of the year. If his comeback is slow, they'll take a hit at CB. If he gets back to last year's level of play, they'll improve at CB.

 

[jmt57]

As a point of reference, here is what I believe to be the current depth chart for Denver.

Denver Broncos Offense
WR1: Demaryius Thomas
WR2: Emmanuel Sanders
Slot: Wes Welker
TE: Julius Thomas
RB: Montee Ball
QB: Peyton Manning

LT: Ryan Clady
LG: Chris Clark
C: Manny Ramirez
RG: Louis Vasquez
RT: Orlando Franklin

Depth:
WR: Andre Caldwell, Nathan Palmer, Jordan Norwood
TE: Joel Dreesen, Jacob Tamme, Virgil Green, Cameron Morrah
RB: Ronnie Hillman, CJ Anderson, Jerodis Williams
QB: Brock Osweiler, Zac Dysert
OL: G/C Will Montgomery, T Winston Justice G Ben Garland, G Ryan Miller, T/G Ramon Harewood, T Paul Cornick


Denver Broncos Defense
DE: Derek Wolfe
DT: Sylvester Williams
DT: Terrance Knighton
DE: DeMarcus Ware

SLB: Von Miller
MLB: ? Jamar Chaney ?
WLB: Danny Trevathan

CB1: Aqib Talib
CB2: Kayvon Webster
SS: TJ Ward
FS: Rahim Moore

Depth:
DT: Kevin Vickerson, Mitch Unrein, Sione Fua
DE: Malik Jackson, Quanterus Smith, Hall Davis, John Youboty
SLB: Nate Irving, Brandon Marshall, Lerentee McCray
ILB: L.J. Fort
WLB: ST Steven Johnson, Jerrell Harris, Jameson Konz
SS: Duke Ihenacho, David Bruton,
FS: Quinton Carter, Omar Bolden, John Boyett, Eric Hagg, Charles Mitchell
CB: Tony Carter, Chris Harris (slot), Jerome Murphy



I would put the Patriots depth chart up for comparison, but I fear that would take the conversation off-topic in regards to who is WR1, WR2, etc.

 

[jmt57]

The list aside the opinion of Talib is formed partially on a biased even a subconscious biased by most on this board. He was a Patriot so like we do with all players we saw the good in him and tried to ignore the bad, we do it with every player and it is not even intentional. When something is yours you hold it in higher regard, that is what happened with Talib so now he is viewed as this top three CB in here, but realistically a season in a half ago he was being run out of Tampa and not even considered a top 30 CB.

To whoever is saying that Talib is now/was last year the third best corner in the league, I would agree that probably is indeed unrealistic. As far as what happened during his final year in Tampa, that to me is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with his performance while in New England.

However, to implicitly agree that Talib was/is now no better than the 29th best corner in the NFL (via the link to that article you cited), that to me is even more unrealistic than any homers exulting his performance.

While Talib may be overrated by some here, I still say that listing that was offered as evidence is even more useless - unless you agree with the writer that Nickell Robey, Chris Crocker, Corey White, Rashean Mathis, Micah Hyde, Corey Graham, Captain Munnerlyn, Keenan Lewis and Brandon Boykin are all better corners than Talib?

 

[supafly]

I honestly think Indy is going to be right up there with us this year. I wouldn't sleep on them.

Yup I agree. I also think the Chargers are on the up and up.

I think Baltimore goes back to being their usual pain in the ass selves again as well; not that they fell off that badly, but I think they bounce back with an additional 2 wins from last season.

 

[supafly]

I did not say they took a step back, I said they did not improve or at least not as much as the media believes. They added some good players no doubt about it, but they also lost many good players who were very productive for them.

I'm just not seeing as many good players that they lost as you seem to be.

It's nothing more than a difference of opinions. I think they were very tough last year, and will be right back in the same place with the replacements and upgrades they chose to pursue.

On top of that, from a fan's perspective, I never worry about other teams, just the same way that I'd assume Belichick looks at it. I think DEN, IND, and maybe even BAL all improved, but there's nothing that can be done outside of trying to make our own improvements to try and beat them when they square off.

 

[Danger Zone]

I'm just not seeing as many good players that they lost as you seem to be.

It's nothing more than a difference of opinions...

This is how adults (should) communicate with each other.

:slowclap:

 

[supafly]

This is how adults (should) communicate with each other.

:slowclap:

Thanks, DZ. I try and keep in mind that a lot of these issues/debates don't really have a clear cut "right and wrong" answer, so it's just going to depend on personal preference and opinion.

Now...if it's an issue like "the Jets suck," then that would be an example of a clear cut statement that cannot be argued against

 

[Brady6]

I'm just not seeing as many good players that they lost as you seem to be.

They had players like Rogers-Cromartie, Decker, and Moreno who played at their peak level last season. Talib very well could be a better CB than DRC at a macro level but if you break it down on a micro level to how DRC performed in 2013 compared to Talib is there even a gap, I would argue no, DRC played great football in 2013 as good as any CB not named Sherman or Revis. Decker had the production of a top 10 WR in the NFL, he may not be a top 10 WR (he is not), but his production was at that level in 2013. Once again, from a macro perspective he is not a huge loss but if you look at the micro perspective assessing what he gave them in 2013 it is a big loss. I would say Moreno the same thing I did about Decker about Moreno, 1586 total yards and 13 total touchdowns is excellent production.

I think the point is that it is not about who is the better player as much as it is about who is the more productive player. Sure Talib, Ware, and Ward are all excellent players but they have to fill the significant production void left by the departure of the previous players.

It's nothing more than a difference of opinions. I think they were very tough last year, and will be right back in the same place with the replacements and upgrades they chose to pursue.

I would not even say it is difference in opinion, I agree with you that they will be tough and will most likely be our biggest hurdle. The basis of my OP was not to suggest the Broncos got worse, it was to say that the media hype around the Patriots and Broncos arms race is a bit of a misconception. Denver may have improved in some areas but they also lost key players, at the end of the day they are likely a net even where we sit today.

On top of that, from a fan's perspective, I never worry about other teams, just the same way that I'd assume Belichick looks at it. I think DEN, IND, and maybe even BAL all improved, but there's nothing that can be done outside of trying to make our own improvements to try and beat them when they square off.

I completely agree. I actually believe the Colts if Luck makes strides could become the biggest hurdle in the AFC. They added a lot of talent, the only thing that may hurt them is their lack of draft picks this season.

 

[Brady6]

This is how adults (should) communicate with each other.

:slowclap:

I could not agree more with your post – Sup is the poster child of posters in my opinion, nobody communicates as respectfully, rationally, and objectively as him on this board. I love when I see the Tapatalk alert on my iPhone that Sup quoted one of my posts because I know that it is going to be a stimulating conversation.

 

[ausbacker]

Who are the players they will be promoting? In addition, who takes those players reserve spots? The Broncos are not like the Patriots, Belichick builds teams deep and focuses on the backend of the roster, and Elway spends money like my wife at Nordstrom.

I've used jmt57's excellent post below to outline some of the players I believe the Broncos will be counting on with expanded roles. Sure, they were 2013 contributors but I also believe the Broncos are just as happy as the Patriots are to expand roles.

I don't see the doom and gloom prognostications for the Broncos at any level Brady6. Their depth is filled with quality players and assuming health, they've probably improved their defense.

As a point of reference, here is what I believe to be the current depth chart for Denver.

Denver Broncos Offense
WR1: Demaryius Thomas
WR2: Emmanuel Sanders
Slot: Wes Welker
TE: Julius Thomas
RB: Montee Ball
QB: Peyton Manning

LT: Ryan Clady
LG: Chris Clark
C: Manny Ramirez
RG: Louis Vasquez
RT: Orlando Franklin

Depth:
WR: Andre Caldwell, Nathan Palmer, Jordan Norwood
TE: Joel Dreesen, Jacob Tamme, Virgil Green, Cameron Morrah
RB: Ronnie Hillman, CJ Anderson, Jerodis Williams
QB: Brock Osweiler, Zac Dysert
OL: G/C Will Montgomery, T Winston Justice G Ben Garland, G Ryan Miller, T/G Ramon Harewood, T Paul Cornick


Denver Broncos Defense
DE: Derek Wolfe
DT: Sylvester Williams
DT: Terrance Knighton
DE: DeMarcus Ware

SLB: Von Miller
MLB: ? Jamar Chaney ?
WLB: Danny Trevathan

CB1: Aqib Talib
CB2: Kayvon Webster
SS: TJ Ward
FS: Rahim Moore

Depth:
DT: Kevin Vickerson, Mitch Unrein, Sione Fua
DE: Malik Jackson, Quanterus Smith, Hall Davis, John Youboty
SLB: Nate Irving, Brandon Marshall, Lerentee McCray
ILB: L.J. Fort
WLB: ST Steven Johnson, Jerrell Harris, Jameson Konz
SS: Duke Ihenacho, David Bruton,
FS: Quinton Carter, Omar Bolden, John Boyett, Eric Hagg, Charles Mitchell
CB: Tony Carter, Chris Harris (slot), Jerome Murphy



I would put the Patriots depth chart up for comparison, but I fear that would take the conversation off-topic in regards to who is WR1, WR2, etc.

 

[Boogs]

You never know really if anyone is going to be improved, or get worse. In 2012, the Texans were a team to beat, last year they were at the bottom.

 

[Joker]

You never know really if anyone is going to be improved, or get worse. In 2012, the Texans were a team to beat, last year they were at the bottom.

yeah...the Pats are JUST like that for the last 13 years....

 

[supafly]

I could not agree more with your post – Sup is the poster child of posters in my opinion, nobody communicates as respectfully, rationally, and objectively as him on this board. I love when I see the Tapatalk alert on my iPhone that Sup quoted one of my posts because I know that it is going to be a stimulating conversation.

Thank you for the kind words, B6. I know there have been some issues that we haven't seen eye to eye on lately (Amendola, Edelman's worth, etc), so I hope it doesn't come across as me being argumentative. That obviously isn't the intent, and it's something that I've thought about in the past month or so.

Like I said, I believe that the high majority of these conversations don't really have a right/wrong answer anyway, so it's just a place where we can give our personal opinions and have reasonable back and forths. It's great to talk about the team though, and football in general--particularly during the long days of the offseason.