Sox fans get in here!!!!

[ausbacker]

Funnily enough, the manager doesn't actually pitch.

Also funnily enough, you again talk about your "right" to make comments. Disagreeing with you isn't keeping you from saying something.

Talk all you want about general thoughts and "accrued observations" but they're pretty meaningless criticisms when you're unable to offer specifics to back it up.

I'd say referencing a power of work is more important than consistently sitting on the fence offering no critical analysis to begin with.

 

[chicowalker]

I'd say referencing a power of work is more important than consistently sitting on the fence offering no critical analysis to begin with.

"Referencing a power of work"? What does that even mean?

"Critical analysis"? Like "pitchers get paid to pitch"? Yeah, that was a gem we all should strive for.

And we've already been through your little "fence" non-response to my post.

Now I guess it's time for you to again wail about having the right to make a point, when clearly what you want is to make a "point" without having it questioned.

edit: btw, if you think there's anything important (see bold) about anything you or I post in this forum, you have a vastly inflated view of things

 

[ausbacker]

"Referencing a power of work"? What does that even mean?

"Critical analysis"? Like "pitchers get paid to pitch"? Yeah, that was a gem we all should strive for.

And we've already been through your little "fence" non-response to my post.

Now I guess it's time for you to again wail about having the right to make a point, when clearly what you want is to make a "point" without having it questioned.

edit: btw, if you think there's anything important (see bold) about anything you or I post in this forum, you have a vastly inflated view of things

Well **** me the Einsten in LA is questioning the merits of to and fro discussion on a chat forum knowing that nothing exchanged between supporters has any outcome on the performance of a professional team.

That pearl of wisdom is a ripper. I'll be sure to stick that in the back pocket.

Cheers.

 

[chicowalker]

Well **** me the Einsten in LA is questioning the merits of to and fro discussion on a chat forum knowing that nothing exchanged between supporters has any outcome on the performance of a professional team.

That pearl of wisdom is a ripper. I'll be sure to stick that in the back pocket.

Cheers.

Coming from an "Einstein" who used the term "important," that's probably a good idea.

Now any interest in some more whining about how you've got the right to post, apparently without any form of dissent? or some more beauties on how pitchers' arms never get fatigued or injured because they recieve a paycheck?

Or maybe you'd like to try something unorthodox for you and actually address the question at hand. You had a problem with Francona's handling of the pen. I pointed out reasons why he wouldn't use Bard / Papelbon in every game that he arguably could, particularly in light of theirrecent pitching and their upcoming schedule.

Any "critical analysis" you'd like to share to refute that, or are you only capable of posting non sequiturs and ad hominems?

 

[captain insano]

im really enjoying this thread. hillarious . i think im gonna start a thread titled standing up for the manager. it reminds me of that silly thread standing up for the players started by ausbacker. comic gold lmao.

 

[ausbacker]

Or maybe you'd like to try something unorthodox for you and actually address the question at hand. You had a problem with Francona's handling of the pen. I pointed out reasons why he wouldn't use Bard / Papelbon in every game that he arguably could, particularly in light of theirrecent pitching and their upcoming schedule.

For posterity's sake I removed three quarters of the nothingness you so enjoy adding to your posts and will concentrate on the following.

Bard had pitched roughly 22 innings before that game. 22 innings in out of 44 games to that point. He'd pitched in 9 games across a 3 week stretch and had a reasonable pitch count.

The point which you're not accepting is I was OK with Albers starting the 8th given people want to claim the rest issue and schedule moving forward. I have no issue with that. The issue is the management of the bullpen once Albers started fluffing and Tito's disposition towards staying with the pitcher and "trusting" him rather than doing the obvious and pulling someone who wasn't in form that night. I would have preferred the normal set up and closing situation but as I said, it's one game. I didn't like the management of the pen and that's it.

It's strange given Tito's management of the starters this season has been brilliant. The moment they start wavering he pulls them. Wakefield the other night was pulled once the Cubs started conning on to him whereas he rode Bucholz to 120 odd pitches because he was locking it down. This for mine has been a great performance from Tito and why leaving Albers in baffled me.

Enjoy that fence of yours.

 

[chicowalker]

For posterity's sake I removed three quarters of the nothingness you so enjoy adding to your posts and will concentrate on the following.....

The "nothingness" is a direct response to your gibberish, so maybe you need to think before you post.

...Bard had pitched roughly 22 innings before that game. 22 innings in out of 44 games to that point. He'd pitched in 9 games across a 3 week stretch and had a reasonable pitch count.

The point which you're not accepting is I was OK with Albers starting the 8th given people want to claim the rest issue and schedule moving forward. I have no issue with that. The issue is the management of the bullpen once Albers started fluffing and Tito's disposition towards staying with the pitcher and "trusting" him rather than doing the obvious and pulling someone who wasn't in form that night. I would have preferred the normal set up and closing situation but as I said, it's one game. I didn't like the management of the pen and that's it.....

Where have I "not accepted" you being OK with Albers starting the 8th?

The issue is that you can't simply have Bard get in there on a moment's notice. He has to get warmed up. And while it isn't as taxing as actually pitching, you don't want to get a guy warming up every night, either.

If you're going to give Bard a rest, you give him a rest, as Francona did.

...It's strange given Tito's management of the starters this season has been brilliant. The moment they start wavering he pulls them. Wakefield the other night was pulled once the Cubs started conning on to him whereas he rode Bucholz to 120 odd pitches because he was locking it down. This for mine has been a great performance from Tito and why leaving Albers in baffled me....

Simply pulling a guy because he's struggling isn't brilliant management of a starter, and neither is leaving a guy in because he's pitching well regardless of his pitchcount. Anybody can do that. The difficulty is determining when a guy can work through his difficulties versus when he simply doesn't have it, or when a guy needs to come out despite throwing a good game, and balancing that with the bullpen's workload.

...Enjoy that fence of yours.

It's become clear you have no idea what that term means.

I guess it's just another example of the nothingness you so enjoy adding to your posts.

 

[ausbacker]

The "nothingness" is a direct response to your gibberish, so maybe you need to think before you post.




Where have I "not accepted" you being OK with Albers starting the 8th?

The issue is that you can't simply have Bard get in there on a moment's notice. He has to get warmed up. And while it isn't as taxing as actually pitching, you don't want to get a guy warming up every night, either.

If you're going to give Bard a rest, you give him a rest, as Francona did.




Simply pulling a guy because he's struggling isn't brilliant management of a starter, and neither is leaving a guy in because he's pitching well regardless of his pitchcount. Anybody can do that. The difficulty is determining when a guy can work through his difficulties versus when he simply doesn't have it, or when a guy needs to come out despite throwing a good game, and balancing that with the bullpen's workload.




It's become clear you have no idea what that term means.

I guess it's just another example of the nothingness you so enjoy adding to your posts.

I look forward to the day where you can add some independent thought other than riding an ostrich in and merely copying the work of others.

Good day to you sir.

 

[chicowalker]

I look forward to the day where you can add some independent thought other than riding an ostrich in and merely copying the work of others.

Good day to you sir.

LOL

Thanks for continuing to demonstrate your inability, or unwillingness, to carry on a conversation.

Maybe you should try watching some baseball before commenting again.

 

[captain insano]

ausbucker is getting killed lmao

 

[bigcountry75]

Bard is ******* TERRIBLE!!!! He has to learn how to pitch and not just think because he throws 95-100 that noone can hit him....I knew as soon as he came in the game tonight we were going to lose....I was screaming for Rich Hill and what does Francona do? Bring in Blow it Bard.....Also Crawford hitting into a double play with the tying run on 3rd and less than 2 outs? That is also ******* terrible....The sox need to make these clutch plays and if they do then they can pull away in the division....This is so damn frustrating...

 

[ausbacker]

LOL

Thanks for continuing to demonstrate your inability, or unwillingness, to carry on a conversation.

Maybe you should try watching some baseball before commenting again.

I've more than willingly demonstrated the ability to carry the conversation, you simply refuse to listen to any of the points I've raised because you don't agree with them or gloss past the ones on which we do agree.

All of it seems redundant now given how poorly Bard pitched tonight. At least Tito had the right frame of mind to remove him given the damage he inflicted in the 8th tonight, something which he did far to late for Albers. This is my point and the point which you refuse to acknowledge.

The point is I would have preferred Bard, I didn't mind Albers but would have pulled him earlier than Tito did once it was evident he wasn't having a good night. It really is that simple.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Cleveland has a AA lineup and a trash rotation, no way this can last. I'm amazed its lasted this long. How the **** are they winning....

 

[ausbacker]

Cleveland has a AA lineup and a trash rotation, no way this can last. I'm amazed its lasted this long. How the **** are they winning....

Asdrubal Cabrera is hitting like a man possessed at the moment. Whether or not it lasts who knows but they're getting key hits in key moments and have done so in a considerable amount of games.

Any predictions on when you think they'll start to falter Keyser Söze? They do seem like they're riding the good luck express but then again, so did the Giants last season.

 

[chicowalker]

I've more than willingly demonstrated the ability to carry the conversation, you simply refuse to listen to any of the points I've raised because you don't agree with them or gloss past the ones on which we do agree.

All of it seems redundant now given how poorly Bard pitched tonight. At least Tito had the right frame of mind to remove him given the damage he inflicted in the 8th tonight, something which he did far to late for Albers. This is my point and the point which you refuse to acknowledge.

The point is I would have preferred Bard, I didn't mind Albers but would have pulled him earlier than Tito did once it was evident he wasn't having a good night. It really is that simple.

False.

You started with snide remarks and haven't managed a single post without one. If I am wrong, cite your post, and I'll gladly apologize.

I've also listened to your point and simply don't agree. When I've explained why it isn't so easy as just "put in bard in the 8th" or "put in bard when Albers struggles," you're the one who has ignored it or made snide, irrelevant or simply wrong remarks in response ("these guys get paid to pitch," for example). Again, if I'm mistaken, cite your post, and I'll gladly admit the error of my ways.

It really isn't "that simple." As I've already mentioned, if you're going to put Bard in when Albers struggles, you need to get Bard warming up. At that point he's not getting the night off Francona clearly wanted him to have.

I understand you would have preferred Bard. I don't fault you for that, as I'd prefer Bard to Albers, too. You can't just brush off the fact, though, that it's a long season, Bard's a young, talented pitcher, and Francona knows better how to use his pen over 162 games than to simply insert Bard into every relatively close game.

 

[chicowalker]

Asdrubal Cabrera is hitting like a man possessed at the moment. ....

Yeah, it's easy to fault Bard, but Cabrera did a good piece of hitting on a pretty good pitch from him. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the other guy.

 

[ausbacker]

False.

You started with snide remarks and haven't managed a single post without one. If I am wrong, cite your post, and I'll gladly apologize.

I've also listened to your point and simply don't agree. When I've explained why it isn't so easy as just "put in bard in the 8th" or "put in bard when Albers struggles," you're the one who has ignored it or made snide, irrelevant or simply wrong remarks in response ("these guys get paid to pitch," for example). Again, if I'm mistaken, cite your post, and I'll gladly admit the error of my ways.

It really isn't "that simple." As I've already mentioned, if you're going to put Bard in when Albers struggles, you need to get Bard warming up. At that point he's not getting the night off Francona clearly wanted him to have.

I understand you would have preferred Bard. I don't fault you for that, as I'd prefer Bard to Albers, too. You can't just brush off the fact, though, that it's a long season, Bard's a young, talented pitcher, and Francona knows better how to use his pen over 162 games than to simply insert Bard into every relatively close game.

Bard was my preferred option and is the Sox set up guy. He so happened to pitch like **** tonight. That could have happened the other night. Who knows. I just don't think 1/4 of the season in a young pitcher needs that much rest when he hasn't been over worked.

The next point becomes and this is the point of conjecture, Albers pitching the 8th did not bother me. Leaving Albers in to pitch when he was butchering hits and walks did. It may not have affected the outcome of the match but to leave him in when he loaded the bases with single-single-walk and then a walk to bring in a run for 0 outs was a stupid decision. If you disagree with that then that's your prerogative.

Funnily enough, Bard struggled in the 8th tonight and the switch was immediately made. It seems Tito saw fit to make that change tonight whereas against the Cubs he didn't. That's all I have argued and the snide remarks are in a direct relationship to you not wanting to listen.

This is the underlying summary in one paragraph. Yes I would have preferred Bard to pitch the 8th. He didn't pitch it and Albers did which was OK by me. When it was obvious Albers didn't have good stuff, he should have gone to the pen immediately, which he didn't.

That's it.

 

[chicowalker]

Bard was my preferred option and is the Sox set up guy. He so happened to pitch like **** tonight. That could have happened the other night. Who knows. I just don't think 1/4 of the season in a young pitcher needs that much rest when he hasn't been over worked.
...

I don't even think he pitched like sh*t tonight, though the results were, but my point has had nothing to do with that.

What I'm saying is that the way you avoid overworking him is by not using him every time you possibly could. if you wait until August and September to start giving him some rest, it could easily be too late.

...The next point becomes and this is the point of conjecture, Albers pitching the 8th did not bother me. Leaving Albers in to pitch when he was butchering hits and walks did. It may not have affected the outcome of the match but to leave him in when he loaded the bases with single-single-walk and then a walk to bring in a run for 0 outs was a stupid decision. If you disagree with that then that's your prerogative....

I understand what you're saying, and I've acknowledged that more than once now. My only point on taking out Albers involves Bard, and that is what I've already said at least twice -- that you can't insert Bard unless you've warmed him up, and that means it isn't really a night off.

(I don't know offhand who they had available if you assume Bard's absence, so I'm not going to claim to know who they could have brought in or who they should have brought in -- really not worth the time to go back and figure that out.)

..Funnily enough, Bard struggled in the 8th tonight and the switch was immediately made. It seems Tito saw fit to make that change tonight whereas against the Cubs he didn't. ...

I can't be sure, but the switch might have been because they needed the one out and the next batter was horrible against lefties.

..and the snide remarks are in a direct relationship to you not wanting to listen....

That's simply false.

Your very first response to me was snide.

If you want to claim that the rest were in response to me "not wanting to listen," I'll repeat the challenge I put to you in my last post -- show me where my post disregarded what you had said. I don't think you're going to be able to credibly demonstrate that I haven't listened to your points / arguments, but maybe you'll prove me wrong.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't even think he pitched like sh*t tonight, though the results were, but my point has had nothing to do with that.

What I'm saying is that the way you avoid overworking him is by not using him every time you possibly could. if you wait until August and September to start giving him some rest, it could easily be too late.


I understand what you're saying, and I've acknowledged that more than once now. My only point on taking out Albers involves Bard, and that is what I've already said at least twice -- that you can't insert Bard unless you've warmed him up, and that means it isn't really a night off.

(I don't know offhand who they had available if you assume Bard's absence, so I'm not going to claim to know who they could have brought in or who they should have brought in -- really not worth the time to go back and figure that out.)

I can't be sure, but the switch might have been because they needed the one out and the next batter was horrible against lefties.

That's simply false.

Your very first response to me was snide.

If you want to claim that the rest were in response to me "not wanting to listen," I'll repeat the challenge I put to you in my last post -- show me where my post disregarded what you had said. I don't think you're going to be able to credibly demonstrate that I haven't listened to your points / arguments, but maybe you'll prove me wrong.

If your only point is our difference in opinion of Tito's use of the bullpen then why are you being argumentative?

 

[chicowalker]

If your only point is our difference in opinion of Tito's use of the bullpen then why are you being argumentative?

Are you kidding?

That's all I said in the first place.

(And how do you think the same wouldn't apply to you?)