Sox fans get in here!!!!

[ausbacker]

And there's Tito's famed butchering of innings bullpen pitching a couple of times per year.

At least this is one out of the way.

 

[TheSolderKing]

And there's Tito's famed butchering of innings bullpen pitching a couple of times per year.

At least this is one out of the way.

\more than a "couple" bro


he is CLUELESS w/ BP and lacks the FEEL to see when a RP needs to get the hook

 

[ausbacker]

\more than a "couple" bro


he is CLUELESS w/ BP and lacks the FEEL to see when a RP needs to get the hook

His bullpen management isn't one of his strong suits. The Red Sox were all over the Cubs until the 8th.

For someone as intelligent and critical thinking as Tito his consistent (let's face it over the years) bullpen decision has been an achilles heel late in games.

It wasn't a good performance from Tito tonight. Bit of a shame given how good the side looked going into the 8th.

 

[chicowalker]

Today was Francona's fault?

 

[ausbacker]

Today was Francona's fault?

The 8th inning was yes. Daniel Bard is the 8th inning pitcher and Papelbon is the closer. It's not a difficult concept to fathom.

 

[TheSolderKing]

keeps the same dude in who gives up 2 hits or 2 walks in a row.



it is atrocious in how he handles the BP. Hire me to make BP decisions b/c u clearly cannot sense when a RP has lost it.


Theo go hire an assistant coach to make Bullpen decisions b/c Tito is ignorant at this. if only Tito could realize Bullpen hands and when they need a lifesaver thrown to them.



Tito LOST this game.

 

[chicowalker]

The 8th inning was yes. Daniel Bard is the 8th inning pitcher and Papelbon is the closer. It's not a difficult concept to fathom.

"It's not a difficult concept to fathom"?

How about the concept of not overworking the bullpen? It is a long season (how difficult is that concept to fathom?)

 

[chicowalker]

keeps the same dude in who gives up 2 hits or 2 walks in a row.

it is atrocious in how he handles the BP. Hire me to make BP decisions b/c u clearly cannot sense when a RP has lost it.

Theo go hire an assistant coach to make Bullpen decisions b/c Tito is ignorant at this. if only Tito could realize Bullpen hands and when they need a lifesaver thrown to them.

Tito LOST this game.

Which would mean that you then burn another arm and have to get at least one more guy warming up.

Your rules might be nice in theory. In practice you'd destroy the pen over the course of the year.

 

[Keyser Söze]

I was screaming for Tito to gets someone up warming when Fat Albers had the bases loaded no outs. Not sure why he would let it get so out of hand. It was evident Albers had absolutely nothing.

 

[chicowalker]

I was screaming for Tito to gets someone up warming when Fat Albers had the bases loaded no outs. Not sure why he would let it get so out of hand. It was evident Albers had absolutely nothing.

Albers had nothing, but the fielding played a large role in the game getting out of hand, too -- that's not on Francona or the pen.

They've got Wake on the mound tonight, which likely means some reliance on the bullpen. Then games in each of the next 10 days. If you burn the pen because Albers doesn't get the job done, you're screwed until you get a strong start (or even 2 consecutive strong starts).

At some point the players just need to make plays. They had done so the past 7 games. Yesterday they didn't. That's how it's going to go sometimes.

 

[ausbacker]

"It's not a difficult concept to fathom"?

How about the concept of not overworking the bullpen? It is a long season (how difficult is that concept to fathom?)

Albers had nothing, but the fielding played a large role in the game getting out of hand, too -- that's not on Francona or the pen.

They've got Wake on the mound tonight, which likely means some reliance on the bullpen. Then games in each of the next 10 days. If you burn the pen because Albers doesn't get the job done, you're screwed until you get a strong start (or even 2 consecutive strong starts).

At some point the players just need to make plays. They had done so the past 7 games. Yesterday they didn't. That's how it's going to go sometimes.

What a crock of ****. Over working the bullpen is the biggest load of toss in the majors. These guys pitch for a living. They have the arm strength to go multiple innings back to back. Don't feed me that crap.

When you go single - single - walk - walk - walk that is Albers fault and Tito's fault for not pulling him, especially when it was plain as day he had no command and was struggling. Everything that unfolded after the two hits and 3 walks to lead off the 8th can then be attributed to the fielding.

It's just one game (and should be treated as such) but your reasoning is poor especially when Tito has a history of bullpen decision making being in the "strange" category.

Tito has done a great job massaging the line up and getting Lowrie in at the right time and rotating the catchers reasonably well to help the offense start to find it's feet. That doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of his bullpen moves (which he has recent history with).

I'm happy with how the Sox are chugging along after their start.

 

[chicowalker]

What a crock of ****. Over working the bullpen is the biggest load of toss in the majors. These guys pitch for a living. They have the arm strength to go multiple innings back to back. Don't feed me that crap.

When you go single - single - walk - walk - walk that is Albers fault and Tito's fault for not pulling him, especially when it was plain as day he had no command and was struggling. Everything that unfolded after the two hits and 3 walks to lead off the 8th can then be attributed to the fielding.

It's just one game (and should be treated as such) but your reasoning is poor especially when Tito has a history of bullpen decision making being in the "strange" category.

Tito has done a great job massaging the line up and getting Lowrie in at the right time and rotating the catchers reasonably well to help the offense start to find it's feet. That doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of his bullpen moves (which he has recent history with).

I'm happy with how the Sox are chugging along after their start.

Don't feed you that crap... difficult concept to fathom... are you able to actually carry on a conversation like an adult?

It's comical that you're going to try to fault my reasoning after tossing out a gem like "...Over working the bullpen is the biggest load of toss in the majors. These guys pitch for a living. They have the arm strength to go multiple innings back to back..."

maybe you haven't watched much baseball, but pitchers absolutely get worn down when used improperly, both during a season and over multiple seasons. Look at how any number of guys not named Rivera that Torre had at his disposal. He found a guy he liked and worked him into oblivion, year after year. Francona looks at the long haul of the season, both with pitchers and position players; it's a wise approach, imo.

If you want to talk his history re. the pen, fine -- let's discuss it. What moves do you want to talk about?

And "That doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of his bullpen moves"? Umm, who said you're not allowed to? Unless you consider a response some sort of an attempt to prohibit you from questioning his moves, I'm not aware of anybody saying you can't question him.

 

[ausbacker]

Don't feed you that crap... difficult concept to fathom... are you able to actually carry on a conversation like an adult?

It's comical that you're going to try to fault my reasoning after tossing out a gem like "...Over working the bullpen is the biggest load of toss in the majors. These guys pitch for a living. They have the arm strength to go multiple innings back to back..."

maybe you haven't watched much baseball, but pitchers absolutely get worn down when used improperly, both during a season and over multiple seasons. Look at how any number of guys not named Rivera that Torre had at his disposal. He found a guy he liked and worked him into oblivion, year after year. Francona looks at the long haul of the season, both with pitchers and position players; it's a wise approach, imo.

If you want to talk his history re. the pen, fine -- let's discuss it. What moves do you want to talk about?

And "That doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of his bullpen moves"? Umm, who said you're not allowed to? Unless you consider a response some sort of an attempt to prohibit you from questioning his moves, I'm not aware of anybody saying you can't question him.

Do you ever actually make a point or just sit neutrally on the fence?

 

[Keyser Söze]

my mom says I'm handsome.

 

[ausbacker]

Vintage Wakefield tonight. Nice 8th and 9th innings there (stirring the pot) .

Set up for a great challenge on the road now.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Vintage Wakefield tonight. Nice 8th and 9th innings there (stirring the pot) .

Set up for a great challenge on the road now.

Its not vintage Wakefield unless this start gets sanwiched between two 10 ER games.

 

[chicowalker]

Do you ever actually make a point or just sit neutrally on the fence?

I already said that Francona's handling of the pen made sense and that the blame lay with the pen Saturday.

It doesn't have to be a knee-jerk reaction or a criticism to be a point.

 

[chicowalker]

Its not vintage Wakefield unless this start gets sanwiched between two 10 ER games.

I was actually waiting for the inning where he inexplicably loses it all of a sudden.

 

[ausbacker]

Its not vintage Wakefield unless this start gets sanwiched between two 10 ER games.

Hmmm, let me enjoy overcoming the rapture, a handy 8-2 record in the last 10 and a great series with the Indians coming up would you.

I already said that Francona's handling of the pen made sense and that the blame lay with the pen Saturday.

It doesn't have to be a knee-jerk reaction or a criticism to be a point.

Funnily enough, the manager is in charge of the bullpen so I reserve the right to make that comment on the power of accrued observations opposed to specific instances.

As I made mention I've been happy with Francona's efforts in 2011. That doesn't mean his management issues of the bullpen through his management of the Sox has gone unnoticed.

 

[chicowalker]

...Funnily enough, the manager is in charge of the bullpen so I reserve the right to make that comment on the power of accrued observations opposed to specific instances.

As I made mention I've been happy with Francona's efforts in 2011. That doesn't mean his management issues of the bullpen through his management of the Sox has gone unnoticed.

Funnily enough, the manager doesn't actually pitch.

Also funnily enough, you again talk about your "right" to make comments. Disagreeing with you isn't keeping you from saying something.

Talk all you want about general thoughts and "accrued observations" but they're pretty meaningless criticisms when you're unable to offer specifics to back it up.