Sources: Saints' GM could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I regress, not because I concede, but because I simply cannot continue this argument. 5 on 1 does not seem fair to me but hey, I guess I asked for it, what was I thinking?? Not to mention I have a job to get to in the morning, best wishes to all, no hard feelings, just differing opinions.

good night... hopefully with some rest you achieve some semblance of clarity in thought.

Sorry to be a stickler, but facts are important, and substantial claims require significant evidence. Those are foundational elements of critical thinking, of skepticism (which is not a dirty word, a skeptic is not a cynic, but rather a skeptic requires evidence for a claim contrary to common sense or to established scientific principles).

If you tell me that it looks cloudy where you are, I will accept your analysis. If you claim to be the victim of an alien abduction, however, I will very likely be more demanding with respect to requests for supporting evidence.

 

[Joker]

in this case, I think alien abduction is the wrong theory....I go with alien impersonation

 

[Wolfpack]

Needless to say the Saints are VEHEMENTLY denying any wrong doing and the whole things just don' make much no sense. But, having said that, the accusations are awfully specific (something you don't usually get when the accusations are not true) and there is more than just the NFL investigating.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Wolfpack]

This to me is worse than the Walsh accusations because I don't know how the hell they would ever be able to prove this. At least Walsh had some tapes, just not the walkthrough that was mentioned. Wouldnt be surprised to see the Saints sue ESPN over this one.

If true, it is much worse. First, Loomis would have broken the law. Second, these allegations are allegations of premeditated cheating. The Rams' Walkthrough allegations was a crime of opportunity.

Good Lord, are there actually people who still think Walsh and/or the Patriots taped the Rams' walkthrough??!? PLEASE tell me I'm misunderstanding the above.

 

[Wolfpack]

If they are wrong, I hope that Loomis sues their arses. ESPN is nothing but a Piece of ******. I wouldn't put it past them to make something up so that they can bring up an old story.

Right. Yeah. OK. I'm sure they're just making this whole thing up just so they can talk about spygate some more.

 

[Wolfpack]

ESPN wouldn't just air this stuff without serious confirmation first, they wouldn't risk it if you ask me. As for the libel and slander issue someone mentioned, when you are a public figure, winning a libel/slander suit is exponentially more difficult due to the fact that you are in the limelight and you are essentially asking for it. I could say/write just about anything I want about Peyton Manning for example and he would have a very tough time winning a libel/slander suit. I'm sure that if this proves to be false (which I highly doubt) then Loomis will have options, but I doubt it will be for libel and slander.

+1. I'm sure ESPN has their bases covered.

Besides, if you read the article closely, ESPN isn't saying that Loomis actually did it. They're just saying that someone went to the U.S. Attorney's Office and that person is saying Loomis did it. Since that attorney officially confirmed that report, ESPN's story is 100% accurate.

In other words, ESPN isn't calling Loomis guilty, they're just accurately reporting that he has been accused of wrong doing.

 

[Wolfpack]

I agree, I do not know every single nuance to this story, but neither do you. The fact that Mangini taped us at field level is irrelevant. Did Mangini get caught doing it? No, but we did, regardless of how we got caught or if BB "asked" him to remove the cameras', at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that we got caught. I don't work for ESPN by the way, I just don't feel that ESPN conspires against us the way everyone on here thinks they do.

I've read the past few pages of this thread and while I don't agree with everything that Lawfirm226 says, he is however 100% correct when he talks about people in here that are completely paranoid about ESPN conspiring against the Patriots. This thread alone has several examples of peoples' paranoia about the way ESPN covers the Patriots:

"I can't wait to spend all week listening to ESPN and mediots explain how much worse spygate is and how we're all going to hell for rooting for the Pats."

"I wouldn't put it past (ESPN) to make something up so that they can bring up an old story."

"ESPN and the NFLN will bring out their NE haters to say the camera stuff was worse."

There is quite a persecution complex amongst many denizens of this forum.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I've read the past few pages of this thread and while I don't agree with everything that Lawfirm226 says, he is however 100% correct when he talks about people in here that are completely paranoid about ESPN conspiring against the Patriots. This thread alone has several examples of peoples' paranoia about the way ESPN covers the Patriots:

"I can't wait to spend all week listening to ESPN and mediots explain how much worse spygate is and how we're all going to hell for rooting for the Pats."

"I wouldn't put it past (ESPN) to make something up so that they can bring up an old story."

"ESPN and the NFLN will bring out their NE haters to say the camera stuff was worse."

There is quite a persecution complex amongst many denizens of this forum.

Only one of those quotes fits the definition of paranoid. Not only are the two bolded quotes correct, they have already started to happen. Do I smell lawyer?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Good Lord, are there actually people who still think Walsh and/or the Patriots taped the Rams' walkthrough??!?

I heard it mentioned 3 times on radio or TV just yesterday by media people.


last week there was a thread here about Kurt Warner making that assertion on twitter.

Earlier this summer Peter King made an offhand remark about the Patriots taping practices.

Four years ago the false story was so heavily covered and discussed that many people simply cannot in their minds separate the false allegations (walkthrough tape = liegate) from the admitted violations (sideline taping of hand signals = spygate)

It is neither wrong nor paranoid to demand that media and fans separate fact from fiction.

Sadly, once corrected, the ill-informed often resort to "well, that may be what they were punished for, but who knows what all they got away with"

 

[JoeSixPat]

With all due respect, you just sound bitter about the 18-1 season, I've seen video that clearly shows we taped teams signals DURING GAMES, forget the walkthrough. Not to mention the NFL destroyed most of the tapes, we can only imagine what those tapes held. While the timing of the release was unfortunate, are you seriously going to blame our Superbowl loss on ESPN? The allegations were not fabricated, the entire world is not conspiring against the Patriots. We broke the rules, and we have paid dearly for it, it's too bad that you just can't let it go. By the way, the "herald" is not the end all be all, regardless of their retraction.

You're talking about two very different allegations.

Furthermore you're jumping from the notion that because the Patriots taped signal calling from the sidelines rather than the stands as the NFL allowed then and still does today (perhaps you've noticed coordinators covering their mouths when calling in plays?) then they ALSO may have taped WALKTHROUGH PRACTICES?

What's your logic tree on that one?

The Walkthrough Taping allegation that the Herald broke was released as a story specifically timed to the eve of the Super Bowl to create maximum press attention for the Herald.

It also proved to be a distraction for the coaches and team less than 24 hours leading up to a very close game where the team, for some reason, didn't really seem to be as focused as they might have been. Anyone following the team at that time knows how much of a distraction it was.

And you are also wrong that the Herald was not the "end all" on that story. In fact they had the only "source" for that allegation, and Tomase admitted he made false assumptions to come to his conclusion of that story.

If anyone else in the media had another source, they've remained silent to this day.

You and Faulk and Warner need to refresh your memories.

 

[Jackson 2]

I've read the past few pages of this thread and while I don't agree with everything that Lawfirm226 says, he is however 100% correct when he talks about people in here that are completely paranoid about ESPN conspiring against the Patriots. This thread alone has several examples of peoples' paranoia about the way ESPN covers the Patriots:

"I can't wait to spend all week listening to ESPN and mediots explain how much worse spygate is and how we're all going to hell for rooting for the Pats."

"I wouldn't put it past (ESPN) to make something up so that they can bring up an old story."

"ESPN and the NFLN will bring out their NE haters to say the camera stuff was worse."

There is quite a persecution complex amongst many denizens of this forum.

As the author of your last cited quote (already proven to be precient, by the way), I'll just hang my hat on the late Kurt Cobain's sobering thought (likely his only one) that, "Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."

 

[Steve102]

:spygate:

I realize I am 11 pages in to this, to say the least I am a little late to the party. Many of us have suspected that what BB did was not that big of a deal, and, furthermore, not unique to the Patriot organization. Now we've got another marquee franchise that looks bad. We've all heard the term "dirty program" for a reason. "Dirty Programs" are not that uncommon. IMO, you could dig into any high level NCAA or NFL program and find violations of various sorts. Some will be worse than others.

This one does look bad. I feel for the Saints fans.

 

[Jackson 2]

:spygate:

I realize I am 11 pages in to this, to say the least I am a little late to the party. Many of us have suspected that what BB did was not that big of a deal, and, furthermore, not unique to the Patriot organization. Now we've got another marquee franchise that looks bad. We've all heard the term "dirty program" for a reason. "Dirty Programs" are not that uncommon. IMO, you could dig into any high level NCAA or NFL program and find violations of various sorts. Some will be worse than others.

This one does look bad. I feel for the Saints fans.

I do also, because no matter what the final disposition of this issue (innocent, guilty or something in between) is, their team will be forever thought of as "dirty." As a Pats' fan, I know the feeling.

 

[pherein]

Sources: New Orleans Saints' Mickey Loomis could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games - ESPN

This could be bad for them. Really bad.

Yeah, it will be. But the timing is impeccable.

At a time where the players union is saying they see no wrong doing by saints players, and want the evidence ( I realize thats their job ), and Breess has been asking the NFL to prove that SP lied about anything for weeks now.
Knowing that SP told GW to stop in 2010, and that he probably talked to SP, and SP told him he didn't lie. Im sure this is Brees''s motivation for being vocal.
He's kind of a "Johny do gooder".

The NFL has been really dragging the player suspensions out, and haven't even talked to a single Saints player yet.

In the mean time, audio is released of GW, Vilma's tapes and email are released, loomis is implicated for cheating, etc.. etc.. Its almost like the NFL is digging for what they don't have at the moment.

Goddell could suspend and fine all the saints players anytime he wants, months ago. The NFL does not need the player unions advice, and Im sure they did not like what it was.

I would be surprised if all of these reports,tapes, and evidence, did not have to be approved by the NFL before its release. Its all property of the NFL, and a reporter or whistle blower would find himself having very little work dealing with the NFL if it was not, after. Im just guessing here based on how heavy handed the NFL has been in the past about its telecast and property.

It could be the NFL is exercising the demons of past teams behavior by using the saints, because of millions in lawsuits against them for not taking it serious when they knew it was occurring.
It could be the NFL is using this time to dig as much as they can up on the saints,because they know the evidence they have will not show why SP or loomis where suspended, or show payment to any player for hurting another.
It could be they are just naive about leaving a story open this long, and don't understand the bad press this generates.
It could be that the evidence is worse, and the NFL is afraid of reading it.

No one knows. the NFL won't release any of the 50,000 emails they have, or the PP slides. Which seems odd to me, because the spygate evidence was released.

NOLA, who I do consider to be a good publication, has publicly said that this was wrong at the beginning. But after being repeated snubbed by the NFL for information, and seeing the digging for new scandals. I am slowly seeing them become more and more suspicious of what is accruing.
Timing of latest allegations bad for New Orleans Saints - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

Granted NOLA is not a big time newspaper like the boston globe. Their main office is as large as 1 floor of the globe,lol. So, their not big time reporters with vast amounts of resources or connections.

I think the question starting to form is, is this a smear campaign designed by the NFL to gain fan approval for what they did, because the evidence to support their ruling on the Saints coaches and players is not enough?

I haven't really formulated an opinion yet, and probably never will, as long as the NFL refuses to show me something to prove their case, but this is all very confusing as a fan.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The NFL never released anything to prove NE's taping infractions... Jay Glazer did. A reporter with a lot of insider access. In your case it was a documentary film maker. Of course in our case they didn't have to since our management owned up from the get go on what they actually did and despite the media's best efforts to manufacture additional evidence of additional and potentially more eggregious violations being covered up, it turned out none existed. ESPN didn't make this up. Someone actually made these allegations to a NO DA. That office has confirmed that. Perhaps someone at NOLA should be digging into that fact and trying to determine why this is the first we've heard of that and why nothing came of it instead of simply buying in to conspiracy theories.

 

[pherein]

.
I have to believe that Goodell wants this to go away, especially three days before the draft where it will topic one for filler to replace dead air...on ESPN and NFLN.....

This is one point of confusion for the saints fans. Goodell seems like he does not want the saints problems to go away.
Its almost like the NFL is dragging is feet to suspend any saints player, seeing as they haven't even talked to one player on the team yet for months, and they would need to if that player appealed their decision in court.
I mean, if Goodell suspended me, I would probably take the NFL to court as an employee of the corporation. That's lost wages.
We just can not figure out why its taking so long. The NFL says they have all the evidence they need. So, whats the hold up?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The issue has faded in the public mind already. Without the concerted effort and constant media frenzy of Camera Placement*, folks' attention has gone elsewhere. The draft will further distract a large segment of fandom.


* It didn't help that with the Pats, the home town media and its rival uber large NY media lead the charge. NY media is indifferent to the Saints and the Saints hometown media is not out making up more bad stuff about the Saints.

 

[PatsSox363804]

The NFL never released anything to prove NE's taping infractions... Jay Glazer did. A reporter with a lot of insider access. In your case it was a documentary film maker. Of course in our case they didn't have to since our management owned up from the get go on what they actually did and despite the media's best efforts to manufacture additional evidence of additional and potentially more eggregious violations being covered up, it turned out none existed. ESPN didn't make this up. Someone actually made these allegations to a NO DA. That office has confirmed that. Perhaps someone at NOLA should be digging into that fact and trying to determine why this is the first we've heard of that and why nothing came of it instead of simply buying in to conspiracy theories.

They played the Walsh tapes in full on national television.

 

[pherein]

The NFL never released anything to prove NE's taping infractions... Jay Glazer did. A reporter with a lot of insider access. In your case it was a documentary film maker. Of course in our case they didn't have to since our management owned up from the get go on what they actually did and despite the media's best efforts to manufacture additional evidence of additional and potentially more eggregious violations being covered up, it turned out none existed. ESPN didn't make this up. Someone actually made these allegations to a NO DA. That office has confirmed that. Perhaps someone at NOLA should be digging into that fact and trying to determine why this is the first we've heard of that and why nothing came of it instead of simply buying in to conspiracy theories.

I thought they had ?
NFL releases 'spygate' videos tapes | Sports | KBOI 2 - Boise News, Weather, Sports and Breaking News

Well, the saints management owned up to the pay for play program also. What is in dispute is what happened during the 2010 season, when they where told to stop, and who knew after that.
I know the FBI is looking into this as we speak. So, they are going to find out the truth of it, and I am kind of glad they are, because we know they will release their findings.
NOLA is not really at the conspiracy theory stage yet. Its the fans that are perpetuating that thought, and thats mostly coming from the lack of information the NFL is allowing us to see. So, really its their own fault.

 

[Steve102]

We just can not figure out why its taking so long. The NFL says they have all the evidence they need. So, whats the hold up?

My gut is the relationship with the NFLPA is the hold up. I am sure the last thing they want is to go to court again. I would guess the league wants to drop the hammer on these guys and somehow come out smelling like a rose with the union. I don't see how they could manage it, but it would not surprise me to think the arrogance of the league offices would make them think that the NFLPA should be on their side on this.

Pure speculation on my part. The joys of being a fan.