So Michael Sam Is Gay, Who Cares? Can He Rush The QB?

[PP2]

Dude, I'm messing with you cause you never seemed too accepting of my viewpoints. It's ok.

I don't have to accept your viewpoints or your opinions and I won't.

That doesn't mean I am saying you don't have a right to these opinions. You have a right to your interpretation of reality.

But surely you don't expect me to stand by quietly while you exercise your bigotry towards other people?

 

[Ring 6]

I have not argued against their right to live how they want to live. Don't include that in your response to me. That is disingenuous.

That is what I understood your position to be for most of this thread.
Its very simple. If you want your position understood, state it more clearly.

I posted what I had come to think your position was, and told you I have zero issue with it if that is the case, but it seems like you are unwilling to confirm or deny that.

 

[condon84]

You can continually change the subject or deflect the issue at hand.

But it still remains that you continually refuse to acknowledge my points or answer some of my questions.

I understand you respect the rights of gay people to be gay.

I understand that you have the opinion that gay sex is unnatural. That's your opinion.

But I will call you a bigot if you exercise your opinion over other people, because you think your opinion is superior (the false natural vs. unnatural argument) or disagree with the fact that a gay person most likely sees nothing unnatural about what s/he does, including having gay sex.

Simple as that.

And this is the root of the problem.

 

[Boogs]

And this is the root of the problem.

This is too much! Oh man.

 

[PP2]

And this is the root of the problem.

You're right. It's called bigotry.

 

[Ring 6]

And this is the root of the problem.

There is no problem with finding it wrong for me to force my opinion about your lifestyle upon you as if my opinion of how you should live is superior to your own.

 

[mb6592]

Again, I really don't understand what your position is other than angry.

Let me explain mine.
I believe that a person (gay, straight, white, black, yellow, male, female, etc, etc) has a right to live their life to their own morals, standards and beliefs, and that it is wrong for someone to expect that other person to conform to their morals, standards and beliefs. I'm not sure how you find that to be browbeating or foolish, or speaking in absolutes. Also not sure why you are so angry.

The point the other side makes is that a world with morality (however you define it) banished from the public square (leave it in your homes and speak about it in only in whispers) is untenable. I ask you - what's your stance on two men and a woman being married. If you answer is like your last one ("get back to me when you're serious"), then I know you've chosen to continue along your disingenuous path.

 

[Boogs]

You're right. It's called bigotry.

Yeah, we know condon84 is a bigot. Tell us something new.

 

[Ring 6]

The point the other side makes is that a world with morality (however you define it) banished from the public square (leave it in your homes and speak about it in only in whispers) is untenable. I ask you - what's your stance on two men and a woman being married. If you answer is like your last one ("get back to me when you're serious"), then I know you've chosen to continue along your disingenuous path.

I frankly don't really have an opinion on 3 people being married, I've never put any thought into.
What does jailhouse sex and 3 people being married have to do with the topic?
That's why I made that comment, your posts seem like jokes, not serious discussion.

 

[condon84]

That is what I understood your position to be for most of this thread.
Its very simple. If you want your position understood, state it more clearly.

I posted what I had come to think your position was, and told you I have zero issue with it if that is the case, but it seems like you are unwilling to confirm or deny that.

Then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Mountain_Commando]

Calling their sexual identity immoral IS calling them defective and disrespecting them.
Sexual identity is a lot closer to race than it is to being lefthanded.
Telling someone its weird they are lefthanded is not in the same stratoshpere as telling them their lifestyle is immoral.


Come on. You know that is a terrible example.
Its like saying racist feelings are OK if I tell my black friend that his lips look funny to me, and he doesn't like it, making HIM intolerant.

You don't seem to have read my post thoroughly, because I categorically mentioned that homosexuality is NOT immoral, imv.

I also took pains to point out why racism is wrong due to the exact same reason, so your second point about racism is also redundant.

 

[PP2]

Yeah, we know condon84 is a bigot. Tell us something new.

How would you know? Since you're too blind to see your own bigotry how would you ever identify when a person is being a bigot?

Funny, this coming from a person who is arrogant enough to associate transsexuality with mental illness.

 

[Ring 6]

Then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

I'm trying really, really hard to understand your position, but it appears you just want to be belligerent.
Honestly it seems you are purposely talking in circles know so your posts are incomprehensible.

 

[Boogs]

How would you know? Since you're too blind to see your own bigotry how would you ever identify when a person is being a bigot?

Funny, this coming from a person who is arrogant enough to associate transsexuality with mental illness.

Because we have 80+ pages of you telling us he is.

 

[Christiancat]

How would you know? Since you're too blind to see your own bigotry how would you ever identify when a person is being a bigot?

Funny, this coming from a person who is arrogant enough to associate transsexuality with mental illness.

I have to disagree. Boogs is a very nice person and is NOT an arrogant Bigot. I am not sure how you keep coming to such conclusions. Boogs doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle, but would still befriend a gay person nonetheless.

 

[PP2]

Then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Coming from someone who continually avoids giving a direct answer.

 

[PP2]

I have to disagree Boogs is a very nice person and is NOT an arrogant Bigot. I am not sure how you keep coming to such conclusions.

So you think someone who associates transsexuals with mental illness is 'very nice' and not intolerant of things that do not fit in his worldview?

That seems to me to be a person who doesn't want to bother to understand why things are the way they are and would prefer to stay sheltered in his church where such things presumably do not exist.

 

[fnordcircle]

scoundrel????

I LOVE that word...nobody uses that 18th century lingo anymore and its our loss...I would love to have been a scandalous scoundrel in my youth..instead I was just an insipid ingrate with an inferiority complex...

Hush you bedraggled scalliwag!

 

[Mountain_Commando]

I think you make an interesting point but aren't taking it far enough. The key is that, if something like this makes you uncomfortable or you have a learned, subconscious reaction to something that you know is wrong, you have to acknowledge that it's your problem and not the gay (or transsexual, or black, or whatever) person's problem and that you want to understand and change your views. Simply stating that it makes you uncomfortable and leaving it at that is bigotry.

I work in the progressive and social justice field but I will state somewhat embarrassingly that trans people do make me slightly uncomfortable and I don't "get" it, but I recognize that this is my problem and not theirs - I have to overcome my learned reactions to people who are just being who they are and want to be.

I agree with everything you said here, but is a difference in preferences/biases 'wrong', when not effected upon? So trans people make you somewhat uncomfortable, and you're mature enough to realize you shouldn't let that affect the way you treat them. So you treat them well, and even make sincere efforts to change your mindset, though not thoroughly successfully.

Is it right for me to, despite the soundness of your actions, shame you for not being the paragon of tolerance, label you a bigot, etc? Live and let live, right? If you're fair to another person (regardless of their race/orientation etc) by every objective and observable measure, then what right and what business do they have to change what you believe? You said it yourself, your biases are your own problem. So as long as your biases are not negatively affecting someone else, then what's anyone's problem?

 

[Ring 6]

You don't seem to have read my post thoroughly, because I categorically mentioned that homosexuality is NOT immoral, imv.

I took it as you summarizing the debate, which was soft selling the antigay comments as 'disagreeng but accepting'.
The left handed thing was idioitc.

I also took pains to point out why racism is wrong due to the exact same reason, so your second point about racism is also redundant.

No you totally missed the point.
You acting as if saying to your friend what he does is gross but you won't hold it against him is the same as telling a minority that something unique to them is gross but you look the other way.
Such as telling an Asian, "those slanty eyes are really creepy, but I won't hold that against you and I'll still let you be my friend".