Slater to Return in 2023

[DaBruinz]

So now pro bowl appearances are the gold standard for evaluating a player? A popularity contest that includes fan voting.

Think about this, at this point Slater wouldn't participate in any pro bowl activity, skills contest, or (flag football) game. A gunner literally has nothing to do at a pro bowl event now.



As far as ST players go, the most important ones are the players who actually handle the ball... returners, punters, kickers, holders, and long snappers.

Statements like Slater is one of the greatest ST players of all time are stupid. I posted a list of just great return specialists, all of who are far more impactful than Slater, a gunner. Who's a more impactful ST player, Slater or Devin Hester?

A lot of these all time great returners also were contributors in other phases. Slater registered 1 career reception. He has 1 career TD... a blocked punt that he recovered in the end zone in the 1st quarter of a week 4 game (the only fumble recovery of his career).

Other Slater career highlights...

1 forced fumble
1 blocked punt
35 yard KO return (career long)
3 offensive touches
2% offensive snap percentage
0.8 ST tackles per game

Did I miss anything? Let me know. I won't hold my breath.

WOW. The fact you pathetically mention his offensive touches when he's been primarily a Special teams only player his entire career shows how much you're reaching.

How about the fact that Slater has been INCREASING the number of Special teams snaps he's taken.

Matthew Slater Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Matthew Slater. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

He's taken almost 3200 Special teams snaps in his career.



To help you better understand the importance of special teams, I'm giving you a link to a coaching video. This way you don't have to strain yourself reading,

Special Teams: Winning the Hidden Yardage by Grant Cain | CoachTube

Although special teams are often overlooked, they almost always have a direct and immense impact on the outcome of a game. In fact, improving special teams p...

coachtube.com

Primitive Analytics: Bill Parcells’ Hidden Yardage

Introduction Honest question: Do you think analytics are good for football? If you are reading this, I assume you have …

bigplayaction.wordpress.com

So, Parcells and Belichick BOTH believe that hidden yardage (aka excellent special teams play) is a big factor in Football games, but YOU think it's a minor issue.

How many rings do you have again? When do you get your Jacket to Canton?

 

[rochrist]

So now pro bowl appearances are the gold standard for evaluating a player? A popularity contest that includes fan voting.

Think about this, at this point Slater wouldn't participate in any pro bowl activity, skills contest, or (flag football) game. A gunner literally has nothing to do at a pro bowl event now.



As far as ST players go, the most important ones are the players who actually handle the ball... returners, punters, kickers, holders, and long snappers.

Statements like Slater is one of the greatest ST players of all time are stupid. I posted a list of just great return specialists, all of who are far more impactful than Slater, a gunner. Who's a more impactful ST player, Slater or Devin Hester?

A lot of these all time great returners also were contributors in other phases. Slater registered 1 career reception. He has 1 career TD... a blocked punt that he recovered in the end zone in the 1st quarter of a week 4 game (the only fumble recovery of his career).

Other Slater career highlights...

1 forced fumble
1 blocked punt
35 yard KO return (career long)
3 offensive touches
2% offensive snap percentage
0.8 ST tackles per game

Did I miss anything? Let me know. I won't hold my breath.

Tell me how you don't have the slightest clue about football without telling me you don't have the slightest clue about football.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Some posters here seem unable to grasp the concept that there are many players on every good team, and even bad ones, that contribute significantly to their team without it showing up in stat lines. As everyone here knows I am not one to use “ foul language,” but they are total ****ing morons.

 

[Steve102]

 

[crawhammer]

Every single one of them did returns only. We get it. You like them for the flashy TDs they got. Completely ignoring the other FOUR facets of special teams.

Slater gets credit somehow for the other "four facets"? Please explain. And support with data.

 

[mgteich]

Good move. The Pats are getting younger by the day. And with 11 picks with about 6 likely to stick,"a wise old head" will be needed. Leadership in the locker room is underrated and the $1.5MM he is likely to get will be well worth it, if only for that.

Slater will get about $2.5M as he did last year, but $1.35M of the compensation will not count against the cap. This is a veteran's benefit that incentivizes a team to keep its older veterans. (EDIT: Slater was paid $2,470,000 in 2022, with a cap hit of $1,272.000). $1,272,00 (a bit higher for 2023) for Slater is huge bargain.

=======================================
"The 2020 CBA expanded on the VSB and created a second veteran benefit known as the 4-year Qualifying Player benefit. This benefit is only available to players who have been under contract with the team (and never released) for the immediately prior 4 or more seasons. Under this rule, the team can designate a player (or a combination of two players) to be signed and receive the benefit and reduce his (or their) base salary for Cap purposes by up to $1.35M (combined if it’s two players). This rule also limits the player’s signing bonus to $152,500 and the player’s base salary cannot be more than $1.35M (for 2022) over the applicable minimum salary for the player’s service time.

For example: The team could sign a single player to a contract with a base salary of $2.47M (base salary of $1.12M + $1.35M) and a signing bonus of $152,500. The total money earned by the player would be $2,622,500, but the deal would only count $1,272,500 on the team’s Cap."

 

[crawhammer]

So, YOU, Mr. Crawhammer know more than Bill Belichick and every OTHER head coach in the history of football who has stated that Special Teams is just as important as offense and defense.

This is ********. NFL head coaches don't believe the 3 phrases breakdown like this:

33.3% Offense
33.3% Defense
33.3% Special Teams

Is this what you're telling me? Exactly equal importance among the 3 phrases?

I'll give you a more accurate representation of importance:

49% Offense
34% Defense
17% Special Teams

 

[mgteich]

Keeping Slater and DMac is more a reflection on the leadership in the locker room than lack of talent. Keeping Slater one more year helps with teaching the younger players how to conduct themselves. His skills are still solid and his salary is low so there is no real downside. DMac on the other hand should retire because he has started to become a liability on the field and costs too much.

I strongly disagree. Slater will count about $1.3M against the cap. He is still a capable gunner and well worth the cap money. Slater and team will make this decision each year. As long as Slater is healthy and wants to lead the Special Teams, I expect that team to continue to re-sign him. He is perfect example of why there is a veterans' benefit. The benefit allows the team to have only about half of a veteran's compensation to count against the cap. The benefit of $1.35M can be applied to one player or shared between two players.
=======
My BOTTOM LINE is that Slater is well worth $1.5M of cap money for his play.

 

[crawhammer]

Slater is more than "just a gunner". He's out there on Opposing Punts, Opposing kick-offs, Opposing Field goals, Kick Coverage, and Punt Coverage. 5 of the 6 Special Teams situations.

Show me his stats. Great, he's on the field. I know. What is he doing? What is he accomplishing? Other than a nebulous pro bowl designation.

 

[crawhammer]

Slater has been selected as an ALL-PRO twice FIVE times (2 - 1st team, 3- 2nd team; all in the last 7 years) for his special teams play. You don't get selected as an All-Pro because you contribute nothing..

Again, as above... what did he contribute? give me some tangible information.

 

[crawhammer]

I suggested to you last night to look up "hidden yardage".

You haven't done it. If you had you'd understand what I and anyone who understands the importance of his role on STs is.

I know what hidden yardage is. How much of this miniscule yardage (comparatively) is Slater accounting for? You say 'hidden yardage' and Slater like they're synonymous.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I strongly disagree. Slater will count about $1.3M against the cap. He is still a capable gunner and well worth the cap money. Slater and team will make this decision each year. As long as Slater is healthy and wants to lead the Special Teams, I expect that team to continue to re-sign him. He is perfect example of why there is a veterans' benefit. The benefit allows the team to have only about half of a veteran's compensation to count against the cap. The benefit of $1.35M can be applied to one player or shared between two players.
=======
My BOTTOM LINE is that Slater is well worth $1.5M of cap money for his play.

I was reacting to a previous post stating that Slater was brought back because of the teams lack of talent. We are in agreement that Slater is still a good player and $1.5M is a good value to retain his leadership.

 

[crawhammer]

I suggested to you last night to look up "hidden yardage".

You haven't done it. If you had you'd understand what I and anyone who understands the importance of his role on STs is.

And you let me down. I asked you to justify qualifying Slater as a great ST player as it relates to the importance and impact of other all time ST players and you gave me 'hidden yardage.'

 

[crawhammer]

WOW. The fact you pathetically mention his offensive touches when he's been primarily a Special teams only player his entire career shows how much you're reaching.

How about the fact that Slater has been INCREASING the number of Special teams snaps he's taken.

Matthew Slater Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Matthew Slater. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

He's taken almost 3200 Special teams snaps in his career.



To help you better understand the importance of special teams, I'm giving you a link to a coaching video. This way you don't have to strain yourself reading,

Special Teams: Winning the Hidden Yardage by Grant Cain | CoachTube

Although special teams are often overlooked, they almost always have a direct and immense impact on the outcome of a game. In fact, improving special teams p...

coachtube.com

Primitive Analytics: Bill Parcells’ Hidden Yardage

Introduction Honest question: Do you think analytics are good for football? If you are reading this, I assume you have …

bigplayaction.wordpress.com

So, Parcells and Belichick BOTH believe that hidden yardage (aka excellent special teams play) is a big factor in Football games, but YOU think it's a minor issue.

How many rings do you have again? When do you get your Jacket to Canton?

At least you're trying. That's a very good post (except for the sarcasm) but it doesn't change my mind.

I mention the offensive touches because it separates Slater from many other all time great STers who contributed significantly in other phases.

Slater has had an increasing number of ST snaps as NFL rule changes have increased the number of ST plays (on kickoffs specifically) that merely end in a dead ball (no return). Again, the fact that he's on the field during a small percentage of total plays in a game does not necessarily mean anything. How and what is he producing from being involved in those plays? There's got to be something you can point to. Other than 0.8 tackles per game and a downed punt here and there.

So, Parcells and Belichick BOTH believe that hidden yardage (aka excellent special teams play) is a big factor in Football games, but YOU think it's a minor issue.

Hidden yardage in fact is relatively minor. But that's mostly beside the point. We're talking about Slater here and not hidden yardage in total. I want to know how we can determine Slater's specific contribution to hidden yardage with some sort of calculation.

 

[Pape]

Again, as above... what did he contribute? give me some tangible information.

ive been trying to do this... its much more complex than i anticipated because there is no real stat database for "defensive" special teams stats... basically one has to look at kick offs and punts, correlate the returns for kicks and punts into yardage etc... my trial analysis went off the rails with the different splits... but the analysis is meaningless unless splits are added to the mix imo... so right now im back to just the base punting stats... which are really aren't reflective of anything tbh...

stat keepers just don't rightly consider special teams...

right now the best advice is "use your eyes"

you don't think slater is worth a 1,5m cap hit? fine, time to move on...

 

[crawhammer]

ive been trying to do this... its much more complex than i anticipated because there is no real stat database for "defensive" special teams stats... basically one has to look at kick offs and punts, correlate the returns for kicks and punts into yardage etc... my trial analysis went off the rails with the different splits... but the analysis is meaningless unless splits are added to the mix imo... so right now im back to just the base punting stats... which are really aren't reflective of anything tbh...

stat keepers just don't rightly consider special teams...

right now the best advice is "use your eyes"

you don't think slater is worth a 1,5m cap hit? fine, time to move on...

You've indirectly backed me up. TY.

There a several ST stats to consider, which are officially kept, but Slater doesn't qualify for any of them except for snaps and tackles. He has 0.8 tackles per game in his NFL career. That's a real stat.

I don't have a real problem with the cap hit by the way but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

[crawhammer]

Some posters here seem unable to grasp the concept that there are many players on every good team, and even bad ones, that contribute significantly to their team without it showing up in stat lines. As everyone here knows I am not one to use “ foul language,” but they are total ****ing morons.

The NFL HOF bases enshrinement on on-field achievements and contributions to the game.

 

[Pape]

You've indirectly backed me up. TY.

There a several ST stats to consider, which are officially kept, but Slater doesn't qualify for any of them except for snaps and tackles. He has 0.8 tackles per game in his NFL career. That's a real stat.

I don't have a real problem with the cap hit by the way but that's not what I'm talking about.

the same thing is true for you though - where are the stats that back up your claims? the ones you have access to are basically worthless as well... What can you point to that backs up your claims that he isnt worth it?

so its not really backing you up, its more exposing a lack of statistics when it comes to (your numbers here) approximately 20% of the game...

as for your real problem with the resigning of Slater, i guess i just dont understand why you have such a hard on about it, considering the woefully inadequate stats to prove your point... and you are a stats guy, no doubt about it... you should have recognized this substantial flaw

last bit from me... I'm glad he's back... if he isn't an all-pro anymore, hes still effective, based on what I have seen... Im happy he's back...

Ive said my piece, I'll let you continue to die on the anti-Matthew Slater hill at your leisure...



.

 

[Steve102]

 

[patfanken]

Slater will get about $2.5M as he did last year, but $1.35M of the compensation will not count against the cap. This is a veteran's benefit that incentivizes a team to keep its older veterans. (EDIT: Slater was paid $2,470,000 in 2022, with a cap hit of $1,272.000). $1,272,00 (a bit higher for 2023) for Slater is huge bargain.

=======================================
"The 2020 CBA expanded on the VSB and created a second veteran benefit known as the 4-year Qualifying Player benefit. This benefit is only available to players who have been under contract with the team (and never released) for the immediately prior 4 or more seasons. Under this rule, the team can designate a player (or a combination of two players) to be signed and receive the benefit and reduce his (or their) base salary for Cap purposes by up to $1.35M (combined if it’s two players). This rule also limits the player’s signing bonus to $152,500 and the player’s base salary cannot be more than $1.35M (for 2022) over the applicable minimum salary for the player’s service time.

For example: The team could sign a single player to a contract with a base salary of $2.47M (base salary of $1.12M + $1.35M) and a signing bonus of $152,500. The total money earned by the player would be $2,622,500, but the deal would only count $1,272,500 on the team’s Cap."

That was my understanding too. I didn't make it clear between what he made and what he'd count against the cap. AND I didn't know the exact number, just that it was around 1.5MM. Thanks for clearing it up, just how it works and exactly what his number is likely to be.