SI.com: Pats reached on 3 players

[Deus Irae]

When have I heard the Pats criticized for reaching before? Oh yeah, when they drafted Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Logan Mankins, Asante Samuel, Deion Branch, and Ben Watson. All those picks were criticized by the media as stretches or outright bad picks. And the media were wrong.

No, the media wasn't wrong. A 'reach' is a simple thing. It's when a team drafts a player above the general consensus of the projected draft range of that player. The Patriots reached on multiple players in this draft. Whether a player that was 'reached' for works out or not, he's still a 'reach'.

 

[unoriginal]

When have I heard the Pats criticized for reaching before? Oh yeah, when they drafted Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Logan Mankins, Asante Samuel, Deion Branch, and Ben Watson. All those picks were criticized by the media as stretches or outright bad picks. And the media were wrong.

Don't forget when we stole P.K. Sam and J.R. Redmond. Very popular those picks were.

 

[upstater1]

On King, they can call his play uninspired, but PSU plays a very very soft zone. I would not be surprised at all to see Justin King become a stud in this league. Bad strategy in the defensive backfield made him look very mediocre.

 

[FootballFanetic]

No, the media wasn't wrong. A 'reach' is a simple thing. It's when a team drafts a player above the general consensus of the projected draft range of that player. The Patriots reached on multiple players in this draft. Whether a player that was 'reached' for works out or not, he's still a 'reach'.

Bingo--I think you nailed it. A reach doesn't mean the guy's not going to pan out, but it may mean they could have gotten him later than they did.

Quick question from a non-Pats fan--how much did Dimitroff help out in terms of player selection in years past and, if a lot, do you think his absence impacted your draft this year?

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

who was that seahawk special teamer BB was enamored with?

 

[BradyManny]

The Matt Slater pick is really mind boggling. Where does he fit in with the recievers the Pats already have? I doubt Slater will make the team. However, reading that Wheatley "gets beat deep on a regular basis" kind of scares me. But then again, when I need good analysis, I never turn to cnnsi. Most of the time they are wrong and have no idea what their talking about. Also, we have to take all the info we read online now with a grain of salt because 99.9% of America hates the New England Patriots.

He's a special teamer.

As for the Wheatley "getting beat deep on a regular basis", nfldraftscout.com (which seems down at the moment), said that only 28% of passes his way were complete. That's pretty much as good as it gets, so SI.com is full of shyt.

 

[unoriginal]

who was that seahawk special teamer BB was enamored with?

Alex Bannister?

 

[BradyManny]

No, the media wasn't wrong. A 'reach' is a simple thing. It's when a team drafts a player above the general consensus of the projected draft range of that player. The Patriots reached on multiple players in this draft. Whether a player that was 'reached' for works out or not, he's still a 'reach'.

This is complete semantics, but I disagree completely. If the Patriots feel player X is worth pick X, and the "consensus" says otherwise, and the Patriots 5 years later turn out to be right, than the consensus can go screw. In the end, it was NOT a reach.

 

[bradmahn]

No, the media wasn't wrong. A 'reach' is a simple thing. It's when a team drafts a player above the general consensus of the projected draft range of that player. The Patriots reached on multiple players in this draft. Whether a player that was 'reached' for works out or not, he's still a 'reach'.

And there is absolutely no ******* way for you of all people to determine whether or not someone was a reach. The players that the Patriots "reach" for are the ones that very well could have been targeted in between their picks. I've already pointed this out to you in a post that you ignored, but Mayo could have been selected one spot after the Patriots selection in the first round, at 11 by the Bills. Wheatley was the second of five CBs selected between picks 60 and 69 (or the Patriots' first selection in the third round); he was in the middle of a run on CBs. If he was the best corner on their board, you don't compromise your ability to get him because the scouts of the teams that would not have taken him then, or the scouts of SI or ESPN or PFW, think he's a reach when the teams that pick directly after you may take him (say, a former employee who, in his first year as GM, may have very similar draft info and scouting approaches as his past employer).

Of course, even the pro scouts who label other people's picks as "reaches" are not the ones we (the fans) or the Patriots are supposed to be worried about. Obviously you don't have to be concerned with what they think about a prospect they have rated lower than others available; it's the scouts of the teams that think highly of that same prospect that you should be concerned with. You have to draft to successfully out-maneuver those scouts - the ones who don't like a prospect mean less than zero.

The Patriots operate their own draft board separate from what the sports rags create... and it's been pretty successful up until now.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Watch Slater become the answer in 2-3 years to my SS thread.

Watch O' Connel become a Red Zone WR to replace Vrabel this year.

Even us Patriot fans know the news tomorrow can be more exciting than the news of today.

 

[MosiT]

I think the write-up on Slater sums it all up nicely.

Tony Pauline wonders why you\'d waste a 5th-round pick on a special team stud.

I tend to agree. I believe that this was the most puzzling and possibly the worst draft in the BB/Pioli era.

Outside of the trades and the players they received through trades last year, that draft too was a total downer.

It seems as if their slip is beginning to show and quite frankly not only do I as a fan not like it but am very deeply puzzled by it.

The selection of Wheatley in particular when Terrell Thomas was still there and picked next by the Giants.

Most of the reviews that are coming down about the Pats draft are similar. This one was a total dud. Hopefully Mayo will pan out.

Of course, the comments by Si and others as well as my comments, your comments and every body elses comments are strictly speculation and we wont really know until camp begins and moves into pre season.

That being said I still tend to agree with the SI impression and especially regarding Wheatley.

Both days were real head scratchers.

All we can do now is hope for the best and hope that Si and others are wrong but I dont think so.

And I hope that BB just doesnt hang onto them because he has the power to do so and does not want to look bad.

This is a very good team, with Super Bowl possibilities but IMO this kind of draft does not help.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is complete semantics, but I disagree completely. If the Patriots feel player X is worth pick X, and the "consensus" says otherwise, and the Patriots 5 years later turn out to be right, than the consensus can go screw. In the end, it was NOT a reach.

You're defending a team that reached on almost every pick it made this weekend, so it's not a surprise that you'd take this approach. What the Patriots feel doesn't mean a damned thing when you're talking about a 'reach'. They are the team reaching. If the Patriots had taken the QB in the first round, would you still be claiming they didn't reach? Of course not, because when you play the scenario out to the extreme, it becomes obvious.

The Patriots reached a lot this weekend. If the players pan out, they will be added to the list of Patriots reaches that worked out. If they don't, it will be filed and used for chat fodder during the next few drafts. It's how the game is played.

 

[MosiT]

Even us Patriot fans know the news tomorrow can be more exciting than the news of today.

I tend to agree but only because it really cant get much worse. Or can it?

 

[JoeSixPat]

If you're a GM "reaching" is when a guy - who you don't want but would would take if he dropped far enough in the draft - is taken by another GM who actually WANTS the guy and takes him before someone else beats him to it.

So yeah, I guess the Patriots probably did reach as far as some sportswriters are concerned.

All I know or care about is that the Patriots appear to have gotten the guys they wanted.

 

[unoriginal]

I tend to agree. I believe that this was the most puzzling and possibly the worst draft in the BB/Pioli era...

... Most of the reviews that are coming down about the Pats draft are similar. This one was a total dud. Hopefully Mayo will pan out.

Of course, the comments by Si and others as well as my comments, your comments and every body elses comments are strictly speculation and we wont really know until camp begins and moves into pre season...

That being said I still tend to agree with the SI impression and especially regarding Wheatley...

Just to clarify: I was criticizing Tony Pauline's evaluation of the quality of the 5th round. It makes sense to target ST studs like Salter there, because you are far less likely to find a good position player.

 

[jmt57]

SI might be well served by listening to this weekend's BB news conference, in particular the portion about how a player fits into a specific team's scheme versus being highly rated on some universal draft board. An organization that has been aroud as long as SI should know you can't fit a blue square in to a red circle. This isn't fantasy football, it's more complex than simply taking the fastest player or the guy who had the most tackles.

 

[Deus Irae]

And there is absolutely no ******* way for you of all people to determine whether or not someone was a reach. The players that the Patriots "reach" for are the ones that very well could have been targeted in between their picks. I've already pointed this out to you in a post that you ignored, but Mayo could have been selected one spot after the Patriots selection in the first round, at 11 by the Bills. Wheatley was the second of five CBs selected between picks 60 and 69 (or the Patriots' first selection in the third round); he was in the middle of a run on CBs. If he was the best corner on their board, you don't compromise your ability to get him because the scouts of the teams that would not have taken him then, or the scouts of SI or ESPN or PFW, think he's a reach when the teams that pick directly after you may take him (say, a former employee who, in his first year as GM, may have very similar draft info and scouting approaches as his past employer).

Buffalo was being projected to go either WR or CB by almost every mock I'd seen. Not surprisingly, they drafted a CB.

As for Wheatley, being the 'second corner' doesn't mean he was in a run. I means he was the 'second corner'. Perhaps if he'd not been picked, there wouldn't have been a run. Perhaps he wouldn't have been picked during that run, and almost nothing the GM's or coaches will tell us about this in the near future will be trustworthy. You don't know what would have happened.

They were reaches. Such is life.

 

[BradyManny]

You're defending a team that reached on almost every pick it made this weekend, so it's not a surprise that you'd take this approach. What the Patriots feel doesn't mean a damned thing when you're talking about a 'reach'. They are the team reaching. If the Patriots had taken the QB in the first round, would you still be claiming they didn't reach? Of course not, because when you play the scenario out to the extreme, it becomes obvious.

The Patriots reached a lot this weekend. If the players pan out, they will be added to the list of Patriots reaches that worked out. If they don't, it will be filed and used for chat fodder during the next few drafts. It's how the game is played.

It's not a reach if the reacher doesn't feel it's a reach. Again, most "consensus" and other mock draft stuff, the Kipers of the world, largely revolves around grading DEs, DTs & LBs in a 4-3 and CBs in a cover-2. Defensively, the consensus is completely irrelevant for the Patriots.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's not a reach if the reacher doesn't feel it's a reach. Again, most "consensus" and other mock draft stuff, the Kipers of the world, largely revolves around grading DEs, DTs & LBs in a 4-3 and CBs in a cover-2. Defensively, the consensus is completely irrelevant for the Patriots.

The reacher doesn't have a say in the matter.

 

[Joker]

I'm reaching for a dyam Bud...this thread is hurting my brain