Should we extend Gilmore - Poll

[amfootball]

What do you guys think? I vote we should extend him.

I posted this before but it bears repeating. We have had a true #1 CB or elite CB since 2014 (Revis, Butler, Gilmore). Do we really want to go back to the days of no true #1? The AFC is stacked with the best QBs and WRs in the league save for Tampa in the NFC. We know Jackson is a solid 2 but he really struggled to be a #1 last year when Gilly was out. I say, just pay him for a couple of more years. He is worth it to our defense in the short term IMO.

 

[Pape]

What do you guys think? I vote we should extend him.

I posted this before but it bears repeating. We have had a true #1 CB or elite CB since 2014 (Revis, Butler, Gilmore). Do we really want to go back to the days of no true #1? The AFC is stacked with the best QBs and WRs in the league save for Tampa in the NFC. We know Jackson is a solid 2 but he really struggled to be a #1 last year when Gilly was out. I say, just pay him for a couple of more years. He is worth it to our defense in the short term IMO.

for how long and for how much?

12-14, maybe 15m a year, 1-2 years ... work it so the team doesnt have to carry a lot or any dead cap space ... i'm cool with that...

16-17 a year, 2+ years? not so much

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Checkmark for RLKAG.

 

[amfootball]

for how long and for how much?

12-14, maybe 15m a year, 1-2 years ... work it so the team doesnt have to carry a lot or any dead cap space ... i'm cool with that...

16-17 a year, 2+ years? not so much

I get what you are saying but we have the money to pay him 16/17. We are paying our QBs less than $10 mil. I trust Bill to structure well so we don't have a lot of dead cap. But I think a two year deal at 16/year is perfect.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

First of all Ray Lewis Killed a Guy. Never forget.

Secondly, the Pats never won any of the 6 rings without an elite CB1 on the roster. Team went a decade without a ring because Bill's defense doesn't work without an elite CB1. This team is predicated on 1 deep free safety and then aggressive man defense at the line of scrimmage. Ty Law, Revis, all-pro Butler, then Gilmore.

Just pay Gilmore. He was DPOY, hasn't declined, and the Pats have 16M left in unspent cap room.....CB1 is one of the few positions you gotta pay up for the rare talent, and it's worth it.

.

 

[Pape]

I get what you are saying but we have the money to pay him 16/17. We are paying our QBs less than $10 mil. I trust Bill to structure well so we don't have a lot of dead cap. But I think a two year deal at 16/year is perfect.

do we have the money? hes already a 16 million dollar cap hit this year, and we have about 14.9m left... and we still a few draft picks we havent signed, including MackieMcMackface and Christian Barmore...

 

[Pape]

Secondly, the Pats never won any of the 6 rings without an elite CB1 on the roster.
.

Not true. This has already been debunked.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Not true. This has already been debunked.

It actually hasn't. Yes they won in 04 with a lot of injuries. But they had an elite CB1 on the roster. And Malcolm Butler was an AP all-pro in 2016. Point is don't mess around with elite corners. The Pats don't get it done when the defense plays crappy zone with corners 10 yards off the LOS.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I get what you are saying but we have the money to pay him 16/17. We are paying our QBs less than $10 mil. I trust Bill to structure well so we don't have a lot of dead cap. But I think a two year deal at 16/year is perfect.

I trust BB as much as the next guy but let's think for ourselves here.

He's already on the books for a $16.2m cap hit in 2021. Some of that can be restructured and pushed to 2022 which is about $4.9m.

Assuming an extension is in the works we will have a $5m credit card balance in 2022 which will only go up.

At $16m per season how much guaranteed $ do you want to give him in 2021? How much dead cap do you want to carry in 2022?

I do not think he is worth $16m a year. Hes too old for that kind of money. Just because the team has the money to spend doesn't mean it should pay the player.

IMO $12m/yr feels right for a 31 year old CB.

That would make his dead cap for 2022 ~$10m which is at the tippy-top of dead cap tolerance.

Gilly will be 31 this upcoming season and coming off an injury-filled year (leg injuries too). Granted he was still above average in his play but that does not mean he will be in 2021 or 2022.

Keep in mind you can count the number of times Bill has extended/offered big money contracts to 31 year-old players on one hand.

 

[jah]

I'm okay with giving him a raise, but no significant guaranteed money past 2022 please.

 

[Simpelton]

If he'll take a 3-4 year extension, it's very likely that he'll still be a competitive corner at the end of that contract. Gilmore's never had any serious injury history and his game is about anticipation rather than raw speed per se. I think he's a decent bet to age well. And if his performance falls off in the last year, he may be amenable to a restructure.

 

[VectorPrime]

My answer entirely depends on who is starting at QB because that alone determines the potential ceiling of this season and whether it’s worth throwing more money around.

 

[Steve102]

I voted yeah, but I want to know deets. He's old for the position.

 

[patfanken]

I voted no inn the poll, but that has a proviso. I definitely want him here for THIS season, but I believe a major commitment for long term dollars for him past his 31st jear is NOT wise. Past history is just oo strong. The list of all pro CB's who are older than 31 is a very short list. In fact, I don't think there are ANY 32 year old all pro CB's.

That being said, if the coaches feel Gilmore has the aptitude to play safety at a high level going forward, I can certainly see a plan where they do a 3 year extension and he transitions to S after a year or two.

I strongly believe that his value to the team ithis season will be much greater than any draft pick they can get for him. Just do what they did for Gronk at the end. Add 4 or 5 million in likely to be attainable incentives and a promise not to use the franchise tag in 2022. BTW I don't see us getting much of a draft pick for him. All the stats about 32 year old CB's are well known to the rest of the league too. The best I can see for him is a 2nd round pick to some team that has a key injury midseason and and is willing to part with a 2nd if they think he will get them over the top. That of course assumes that the PAts will be out of the playoff hunt themselves at the trade deadline. I don't see anyone giving us better than a 3rd in the off season.

Better to keep him here this season and let him test the waters of FA next off season. Paying top dollar for a declining asset is a stupid business model

 

[RxJock1120]

First of all Ray Lewis Killed a Guy. Never forget.

Secondly, the Pats never won any of the 6 rings without an elite CB1 on the roster. Team went a decade without a ring because Bill's defense doesn't work without an elite CB1. This team is predicated on 1 deep free safety and then aggressive man defense at the line of scrimmage. Ty Law, Revis, all-pro Butler, then Gilmore.

Just pay Gilmore. He was DPOY, hasn't declined, and the Pats have 16M left in unspent cap room.....CB1 is one of the few positions you gotta pay up for the rare talent, and it's worth it.

.

Who was our elite

First of all Ray Lewis Killed a Guy. Never forget.

Secondly, the Pats never won any of the 6 rings without an elite CB1 on the roster. Team went a decade without a ring because Bill's defense doesn't work without an elite CB1. This team is predicated on 1 deep free safety and then aggressive man defense at the line of scrimmage. Ty Law, Revis, all-pro Butler, then Gilmore.

Just pay Gilmore. He was DPOY, hasn't declined, and the Pats have 16M left in unspent cap room.....CB1 is one of the few positions you gotta pay up for the rare talent, and it's worth it.

.

Who was our "elite" corner against the Falcons???
Not sure I would refer to Butler as elite.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Who was our elite

Who was our "elite" corner against the Falcons???
Not sure I would refer to Butler as elite.

NFL pro bowl the year prior and in 2016 was 2nd team all-pro.

And you may disagree but I think they also win in 2017 if they don't ask 4 Dbacks to all play different positions the morning of the Superbowl.

 

[Sicilian]

I voted to extend, with the obvious caveat that it's not an "at all costs" kind of deal. I suspect the Pats will be prudent, it's what they do. So an extension would have some protections for them but some extra cash for Gilmore. I don't like the principle of getting a front loaded contract and then complaining that you're "underpaid" when you're on the lean years, but I understand it's just the leverage he has to use to take care of himself and his family long term. I think they work out a reasonable deal with enough wiggle room that they can get out of it (via cut or trade) after next season at the latest.

For 2021, we could really use him though.

 

[TheRainMaker]

First, good thread.

Second, despite Butler’s 2016 2nd team All Pro selection, he was better in 2015. With that said, I wouldn’t consider him elite. He was very good as a first year starter in 2015, but he had a very hard time making big plays. I noticed he put himself in position to make these plays, but somehow either the ball got dropped or the WR would make a circus catch. In fact, the 2015-16 AFCCG really sticks out when Emmanuel Sanders made some backbreaking-chain moving catches that Butler was in position to breakup, but couldn’t do it. We saw the decline in 2017.

Regarding Gilmore, I’ve said it before and he is aware that Slay (who sucks) is making $17M per year. You’re fooling yourself if you think Gilmore would settle for $12-14M as I’ve seen thrown out here in this thread. Byron Jones makes $16.5M and he sucks.

2 years and at least $17M. Jackson failed his audition as a #1 last year.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

It actually hasn't. Yes they won in 04 with a lot of injuries. But they had an elite CB1 on the roster. And Malcolm Butler was an AP all-pro in 2016. Point is don't mess around with elite corners. The Pats don't get it done when the defense plays crappy zone with corners 10 yards off the LOS.

04 is a real technicality though because ty law was not there for the major majority of the season , including the playoffs where the team was performing at its peak. Dont get me wrong, I think this years team as its constructed needs Gilmore or a certified #1, win unless the front 7 just explodes above expectations. But 04 was won with a pretty average set of corners , a stud safety, and a stacked front 7.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Post in thread 'Mandatory Mini Camp Practice- 6/14'
Mandatory Mini Camp Practice- 6/14

History is against Gilmore being a high end CB1 after this season. I wouldn’t extend him with significant guaranteed money.

Give him another pay raise. Not sold on much more than that.