Shotgun used more than half the snaps in 2007-2008

[efin98]

Protip: if the offense scores 27 points and the team still loses, it's probably because the defense didn't get the job done. Except in the universe you live in, where every loss is the offense's fault. You probably blame the 2006 Pats' offense for the fact that the defense gave up 35 points in the 2nd half.

He already did earlier in the thread.

 

[maverick4]

Wrong again. Some of you love to blame the defense, I merely pointed out that the 01-04 offenses, with far less talent, still had to win those games after the defense blew it. Our offense in recent years has had opportunities to win games but hasn't. You're also dismissing recent defenses that have had top ten league leading rankings.

It's still amusing though, to hear some of you defend that last drive in the 07 season. That was a gem: need 40 yards to kick a tying FG, with all 3 timeouts, and we end up brilliantly ending the game on 4 straight slow bombs.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wrong again. Some of you love to blame the defense, I merely pointed out that the 01-04 offenses, with far less talent, still had to win those games after the defense blew it. Our offense in recent years has had opportunities to win games but hasn't. You're also dismissing recent defenses that have had top ten league leading rankings.

It's still amusing though, to hear some of you defend that last drive in the 07 season. That was a gem: need 40 yards to kick a tying FG, with all 3 timeouts, and we end up brilliantly ending the game on 4 straight slow bombs.

Not defending it at all. I hated the play but, for whatever reason, Belichick seemed to have more faith in Brady to hook up with Moss than he did in Gostkowski to make the kick. If it had been anyone other than the best coach in the league making that call, I would have second-guessed the hell out of it, but if Belichick made that call I can live with it.

 

[maverick4]

Not defending it at all. I hated the play but, for whatever reason, Belichick seemed to have more faith in Brady to hook up with Moss than he did in Gostkowski to make the kick. If it had been anyone other than the best coach in the league making that call, I would have second-guessed the hell out of it, but if Belichick made that call I can live with it.

You do realize BB gives his coordinators tons of autonomy, right? The D has acted completely differently in style from Romeo to Mangini to Pees. Same with the offense. In 2001, do you think Belichick, or Weiss, called the specific plays on that final drive?

 

[unoriginal]

maverick4, if you ever get sick of arguing with all the ball-washers around here, you should contact Belichick and let him know that this 2-year experiment in the shotgun-based offense hasn't come close to meeting the results you expect as a fan.

I think you might be able to get him to see the light that it's not getting us anywhere.

 

[efin98]

You do realize BB gives his coordinators tons of autonomy, right? The D has acted completely differently in style from Romeo to Mangini to Pees. Same with the offense. In 2001, do you think Belichick, or Weiss, called the specific plays on that final drive?

In other words, he blames McDaniels for it instead of BB or Brady or Moss or Gostkowski

 

[spacecrime]

"Stats" is not synonymous with "total yards". Yards is a volume stat, which is correlated as much with quantity of play as quality. It's ******ed to claim that anything is backed by statistics without bringing a single efficiency stat into the equation, not that I'd expect you to know the difference.

And in the Brady vs. Manning debate, I made my case for Brady using nothing but stats. Once again, get a clue before you claim something.

You can always tell when someone has a weak postion that is indefensible. Rather than support his position (which he cannot), the only thing he can do is say, "I'm right because you are a (insert your own insult here)."

Stats can mean whatever you want them to mean, and if you only used stats to prove a point, you didn't prove the point. Especially with QBs. Stats don't yield a QB rating, they yield a passer rating, not the same thing.

Stats can be deliberately mis-used, but mostly they are simply not understood by those who "prove" things with stats.

How many times have people thrown out the stat that teams who run for a hundred yards generally win the game. Total hogwash. Teams that win games often run for a hundred yards. You don't win games by running for a hundred yards. You get a huge lead in a game, then you run the ball a lot.

Other stats work out the same way. You cannot make a list of the best DEs in the game simply by listing them in order of # of sacks, for example.

 

[maverick4]

maverick4, if you ever get sick of arguing with all the ball-washers around here, you should contact Belichick and let him know that this 2-year experiment in the shotgun-based offense hasn't come close to meeting the results you expect as a fan.

I think you might be able to get him to see the light that it's not getting us anywhere.

Actually I think Belichick has already 'gotten it', I just enjoy talking to clowns here so their posts look silly a year from now. Look at Belichick's moves, his priority the moment free agency started was to acquire Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, Alex Smith, draft multiple O-linemen including using high picks.

It'll be icing on the cake to see these ball washers react after their ex-coordinator, who is doing a great job displaying more situational dis-awareness, falls on his face.

 

[efin98]

Actually I think Belichick has already 'gotten it', I just enjoy talking to clowns here so their posts look silly a year from now. Look at Belichick's moves, his priority the moment free agency started was to acquire Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, Alex Smith, draft multiple O-linemen including using high picks.

It'll be icing on the cake to see these ball washers react after their ex-coordinator, who is doing a great job displaying more situational dis-awareness, fall on his face.

You are already declaring victory over "ball washers" before a down of the season has been played?

 

[unoriginal]

Actually I think Belichick has already 'gotten it', I just enjoy talking to clowns here so their posts look silly a year from now. Look at Belichick's moves, his priority the moment free agency started was to acquire Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, Alex Smith, draft multiple O-linemen including using high picks.

It'll be icing on the cake to see these ball washers react after their ex-coordinator, who is doing a great job displaying more situational dis-awareness, fall on his face.

Well, don't injure your arm patting your back like that, although I may have missed the lead fullback your I-formation requires.

 

[maverick4]

You are already declaring victory over "ball washers" before a down of the season has been played?

This is more diversion from the thread. You STILL refuse to comment on whether you think using shot-gun so much is a problem or not.

As for your question, it remains to be seen, but there's a good chance a lot of people (especially posters in this thread) are going to be crying over their favorite ex-coordinator's failures. The guy has been in way over his head for awhile, and Brady has been making him look good. It doesn't matter, he's not on the team and I'm very happy about it.

 

[spacecrime]

You probably blame the 2006 Pats' offense for the fact that the defense gave up 35 points in the 2nd half.

I think it was a superhot stadium and players with the flu, but an offense that goes three-and-out on consequtive series is responsible for the defense being tired and must take some responisbility for the other team racking up points. Just as a strong defense can take credit for some of the offensive points by making the other team go three-and-out repeatedly and tiring out the other defense. Not to mention giving the offense a short field every few possessions.

Stop relying on stats and think about how the parts of the game are inter-related.

 

[maverick4]

I think it was a superhot stadium and players with the flu, but an offense that goes three-and-out on consequtive series is responsible for the defense being tired and must take some responisbility for the other team racking up points. Just as a strong defense can take credit for some of the offensive points by making the other team go three-and-out repeatedly and tiring out the other defense. Not to mention giving the offense a short field every few possessions.

Stop relying on stats and think about how the parts of the game are inter-related.

EXACTLY. I was posting in those threads in 2006 too, the offense wasn't doing the defense any favors with un-intelligent play calls and 3-and-outs when the D needed rest.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually I think Belichick has already 'gotten it', I just enjoy talking to clowns here so their posts look silly a year from now. Look at Belichick's moves, his priority the moment free agency started was to acquire Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, Alex Smith, draft multiple O-linemen including using high picks.

It'll be icing on the cake to see these ball washers react after their ex-coordinator, who is doing a great job displaying more situational dis-awareness, falls on his face.

Good point, because guys like Light, Maroney, Mankins, Graham and Watson were never drafted high by a Belichick team.

 

[efin98]

This is more diversion from the thread. You STILL refuse to comment on whether you think using shot-gun so much is a problem or not.

It was your own f-ing comment, you were the one who went off on the tangent

And I already replied like you demand and bumped it up so you could see it over your recent back and forth tangents. You don't want anyone to reply to the orignal question, you want a dragged out fight. You are baiting and people are biting, you are getting your jollies off of the replies

As for your question, it remains to be seen, but there's a good chance a lot of people (especially posters in this thread) are going to be crying over their favorite ex-coordinator's failures. The guy has been in way over his head for awhile, and Brady has been making him look good. It doesn't matter, he's not on the team and I'm very happy about it.

And when he turns them around and puts them in the playoffs you will be nowhere to be found, only bringing up more dirt on the past that had long been settle while the Patriots are rolling along in the playoffs. You will find something to complain about with him no matter what happens

 

[maverick4]

Good point, because guys like Light, Maroney, Mankins, Graham and Watson were never drafted high by a Belichick team.

Light, Graham, Watson were drafted before 2005.

If you look at from 2005, there was a trend towards lots of high picks on offensive skill guys like Chad Jackson, Maroney, Thomas (a pass catching TE), and trading picks for Moss and Welker. These picks were towards creating the offense we see today, a finesse pass-happy offense.

 

[maverick4]

And when he turns them around and puts them in the playoffs you will be nowhere to be found,

I'll still be here. I'll be reading your excuses, like the ones people like you have made after he completely mis-handled the Cutler situation. You still can't see that he has a major problem with understanding situations, whether it be in game or outside the game. Please keep posting your defenses though, it'll make it all even funnier a year from now.

 

[efin98]

I'll still be here. I'll be reading your excuses, like the ones people like you have made after he completely mis-handled the Cutler situation.

Bringing up Cutlers shows your ignorance of the situation there, once again proving your axe to grind.

You still can't see that he has a major problem with understanding situations, whether it be in game or outside the game.

And you understand them?

HA! I understand exactly what was going on with the team- they use the formation that the feel fits them best and works best. And it did. But certain people refuse to see anything but their own egotistical model for what should be done and anything outside that model is deemed failure, anyone who breaks the model ridiculed, and anyone who dares to question that model told to shut up or that they don't know what they are talking about.

I understand exactly what went on with the team last year, 2007, 2006, and 2005- do you?

Please keep posting your defenses though, it'll make it all even funnier a year from now.

As opposed to comedy that is your constant anti-McDaniels and anti 2005-2008 Patriots Offense drivel?

I'm sure one will be laughable in the future, and it's not going to be mine.

 

[maverick4]

Bringing up Cutlers shows your ignorance of the situation there, once again proving your axe to grind.

Whatever. Look at the first few pages of this thread. No mention or talk of our ex-coordinator, until you ball washers showed up predictably whining and crying again over any offensive criticisms.

 

[efin98]

Whatever. Look at the first few pages of this thread. No mention or talk of our ex-coordinator, until you ball washers showed up predictably whining and crying again over any offensive criticisms.

You can claim it's not about him but you didn't have to mention him to know who this thread was directed at taking about. Read the first post alone you get a clear picture that you aren't talking about a player, you aren't talking about stats, you aren't talking about wins or losses- you were taking another shot at McDaniels