Shaq Mason extension: 5 years, up to $50M

[manxman2601]

That's "Future HOF QB Etling" to you, bub!

Nah. We’ll be talking about trading him for a first rounder here in a year or two, just like Ryan Mallett.

 

[long distance]

Wow, did not see this coming. Great continuity for the o-line.

Makes extending Flowers more difficult though.

Why? T.Flower's extension will not be about cap space (Pats are cap healthy down the road) but about his willingness to sign what Pats offer (Im sure they already did) and about his leverage in Pats and league market. Patriots currently have 3 starting DEs signed at least through 2019 (2 for 2020) and another up and coming DE in Keionta Davis which is not ideal for Flowers' best deal here. The situation can change of course. Also it is not clear how much the league values Flowers . he is a great and mature young player but certainly not elite rusher. With Patricia on the other side of the market he might have some more leverage there now..

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

I wonder what they see his value as and what his FA value is.

Let's not fool ourselves into thinking he is some amazing game changer. He is good, but not great. In the past 2 years he has had 7 sacks and 6.5 sacks in the regular season.

Those totals put him at about the 40th or so best pass rusher in the NFL.

That puts him at about 7M a year by my best guess

He's a better and younger Sheard. So probably 8.5/9M

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Extension to the one year remaining ? meaning hes under contract for 6 years?

 

[BobDigital]

If sacks are your sole metric of how good an edge player is, that's valid. I don't agree with that though. Flowers is a great overall player in both the run and passing game. He's definitely better than ~40th. Top 20 at worst. That probably means at least 10M annually.

An example of a player who didn't put up too many sacks and ultimately turned out to be a great pass rusher is Olivier Vernon. The Giants haven't won a Super Bowl with him and he's arguably not worth his contract, but he's been a monster there.

Sacks are not the only way i measure a player of course. But you need to look at some numbers. I brought up pass rushing without talking about run defending because when you need to try to factor is the best run defenders and how much they are paid.

I don't think Flowers is worth 10M. I mentioned a top 40 pass rusher because i need to pick one aspect of his game. If you want to say he is a top 20 4-3 DE in the NFL then MAYBE he is. Now your discounting OLBs and DTs who pass rush which are some of the highest paid people with the pass rush skill set in the game. Also some goes play OLB and DE depending on the package called. So there is some confusion about who does what.

Anyway here are 4-3 DEs I would take over Flower for THIS YEAR.

Ansah, Jones, Lawerence, Bosa, Griffen, Jordan, Ngakoue, Hunter, Ingram, Quinn, Bennett, Mack, Addison, Clayborn (yay), Wake, Clowney, Graham, Lawson, Irvin, Fowler. Dunlap, Garret, Clark, Sheard.

I think are of them have a very good case to be considered better DEs than Flowers. Maybe a few I can be talked out of. The issue is that there is about an even split of 3-4 and 4-3 teams so even if he is one of the top 20 4-3 DEs that doesn't mean what it use to.

 

[long distance]

This is a huge extension.

LT Wynn (2022)-LG Thuney (2019)-C Andrews (2020)-RG Mason (2023)-RT Cannon (2021)

This must be the best contract/continuity OL situation in the league.
The cost: 3.5M per player per year through 2019

It is even more important in light of Dante probably going back to retirement sooner rather than later and this gives significant time and insurance for the next transition.
___

Mason's deal starts only next year. The actual numbers will probably be even lower. By the time it starts it will already be a bargain.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Extension to the one year remaining ? meaning hes under contract for 6 years?

Yup. An even better deal than I thought.

 

[BobDigital]

He's a better and younger Sheard. So probably 8.5/9M

Maybe he is a better pass rusher than Sheard but a here but Sheard is a better run defender.

He may be paid more because he is younger but i think Sheard was the better FA prospect because he had the added bonus of doing it more places under different systems. They are close but i think Sheard overall is slightly better.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is a huge extension.

LT Wynn (2022)--LG Thuney (2019)--C Andrews (2020)--RG Mason (2023)--RT Cannon (2021)

This must be the best contract/continuity OL situation in the league.
The cost: 3.5M per player per year through 2019

It is even more important in light of Dante probably going back to retirement sooner rather than later and this gives big time and insurance for the next transition.
___

Mason's deal starts only next year. The actual numbers will probably be even lower. By the time it starts it will already be a bargain.

Things are set up so that the team can offer Brown a pretty good contract (though not a bank-breaking deal), and still be in good position across the line, if that's the way BB chooses to go. It wouldn't say much for Thuney's future, but the line would be in place for a good stretch, moving forward.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Maybe he is a better pass rusher than Sheard but a here but Sheard is a better run defender.

He may be paid more because he is younger but i think Sheard was the better FA prospect because he had the added bonus of doing it more places under different systems. They are close but i think Sheard overall is slightly better.

There’s no way we get anywhere near the value from flowers next contract compared to sheard. 2 years 11 mil was a steal. Now the colts are paying what we should’ve paid years ago.

 

[long distance]

Maybe he is a better pass rusher than Sheard but a here but Sheard is a better run defender.

He may be paid more because he is younger but i think Sheard was the better FA prospect because he had the added bonus of doing it more places under different systems. They are close but i think Sheard overall is slightly better.

C'mon now..

SBLI snap count:
Flowers (45, 92%), Rob Ninkovich (27, 55%), Jabaal Sheard (23, 47%), Chris Long (15, 31%).

 

[farn]

I didn’t expect NE to be able to retain Mason, as I thought he’d test the market and someone would pounce for big $$$.

OL has lotsa guys signed for long haul & I like it.

 

[PP2]

Things are set up so that the team can offer Brown a pretty good contract (though not a bank-breaking deal), and still be in good position across the line, if that's the way BB chooses to go. It wouldn't say much for Thuney's future, but the line would be in place for a good stretch, moving forward.

Brown is just a stopgap for Wynn, IMO.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I would be curious to see the details. First off let me say this.

I HATE PAYING GUARDS BIG MONEY. I think one of the things which caused the Patriots issues for years was the Mankins deal. Yes he was a very good player. But to have the highest paid guy at one of the least impactful positions, to me, hurts your ability to win championships. They were unable to be really active in free agency for a number of years. It wasn't until 2014 (the year they planned to trade him away) that they felt comfortable making moves. I doubt they sign Browner/Revis if they don't have an idea in place about trading Mankins and dumping his salary.

That contract was signed in 2011 They paid him for 3 years of play for 5.5/7/10M in 2011, 2012, 2013 and traded him in 2014. In 2014 they had to pay him 4.25 in dead money and in 2015 they had to pay 4M in dead money. (That is an average of 7.5M for 3 years without counting the dead money and 10.5M for 3 years of play counting the dead money).

You can factor in that they got a 4th round pick as well for signing the deal in 2015 (as that is what they eventually traded him for).

This deal however isn't as bad as the Mankins deal relatively speaking.

in 2011, 2012, 2013 the cap was 120, 120.6, 123M. For the dead money years the cap was 133, and 143M.

Considering this contract won't start to take effect until 2019 when the cap will be over 180M this deal looks a lot better even if the cap increase slows down after 2019.

There's about a 50% increase in cap space compared to 2011.

That means in a player worth 6.67M in 2011 is now worth 10M in 2019. Maybe slightly more as the cap was stagnant for most of those 3 years and may go up even into 2020 to some amount.

Masons deal is clearly the better of the 2 even if he isn't as good a player as Mankins

All that being said. I still don't love paying a guard this kind of money but it isn't a deal that i think will handicap the Patriots ability to sign other good players in today's cap age.

I look at it like the team is investing in protecting their 41 year old quarterback with the best offensive lineman on the team

 

[PatriotReign]

Brown is just a stopgap for Wynn, IMO.

The Achilles injury throws a wrench into those plans however. There's a chance Wynn may never be the same.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Things are set up so that the team can offer Brown a pretty good contract (though not a bank-breaking deal), and still be in good position across the line, if that's the way BB chooses to go. It wouldn't say much for Thuney's future, but the line would be in place for a good stretch, moving forward.

That's what im hoping for

That Brown turns into a beast LT that they give a nice contract to lock him up for at least 3 years and then Wynn can step in and play LG at a pro bowl level for the next 4 years

 

[long distance]

great insider story on Mason & 2015 drafting process that brought Mason, Andrews and Tre Jackson . from Lombardi - from 9:35app to 15:20:

 

[JMC00]

The Achilles injury throws a wrench into those plans however. There's a chance Wynn may never be the same.

At age 31 Jason Peters ruptured the same achilles twice in a span of 3 months in 2012 and came back and went to 4 straight pro bowls, probably would have went to 5 if he didn't tear his acl during the season last year

I get that they aren't the same people but he's just one example of achilles injuries not being a career ruiner

 

[Edelmania]

Sacks are not the only way i measure a player of course. But you need to look at some numbers. I brought up pass rushing without talking about run defending because when you need to try to factor is the best run defenders and how much they are paid.

I don't think Flowers is worth 10M. I mentioned a top 40 pass rusher because i need to pick one aspect of his game. If you want to say he is a top 20 4-3 DE in the NFL then MAYBE he is. Now your discounting OLBs and DTs who pass rush which are some of the highest paid people with the pass rush skill set in the game. Also some goes play OLB and DE depending on the package called. So there is some confusion about who does what.

Anyway here are 4-3 DEs I would take over Flower for THIS YEAR.

Ansah, Jones, Lawerence, Bosa, Griffen, Jordan, Ngakoue, Hunter, Ingram, Quinn, Bennett, Mack, Addison, Clayborn (yay), Wake, Clowney, Graham, Lawson, Irvin, Fowler. Dunlap, Garret, Clark, Sheard.

I think are of them have a very good case to be considered better DEs than Flowers. Maybe a few I can be talked out of. The issue is that there is about an even split of 3-4 and 4-3 teams so even if he is one of the top 20 4-3 DEs that doesn't mean what it use to.

I definitely think you are under rating flowers. Theres a lot of guys on your list that I would absolutely not take over flowers this year. I would probably take Flowers over Irvin, Fowler, Clayborn, Lawson, Quinn, Bennett, and mayybee even a couple other guys on your list. Your underrating the importance of run defense and how good flowers is at that compared to some of the players on your list who are not that much better pass rushers. And also the fact that flowers get a lot of his pressure from the inside while a lot of players you mentioned benefit a lot from mostly coming off the edge.

 

[Flash]

And here I thought Tre Jackson was going to be the better of the two since Jackson was bigger and wasn't as raw as Shaq was in pass protection. Welp, congrats big fella, well deserved contract.