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Shanahan on zone read

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Mack Herron, Jun 13, 2018 at 5:01 PM.

  1. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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  2. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    What was so fantastic about his answer?
     
  3. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    Yea the response was very Belichick-ian
     
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  4. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker On the Game Day Roster

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    I don't get it either but it was interesting that he explains how teams feared it even though it was only 1/3 of Washington's offense.
     
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  5. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    The most effective way to defend the read-option is by destroying the QB the moment he officially becomes a Runner.
     
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  6. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Kyle Shanahan's answer was very straight forward.

    However, the question from the reporter was garbage (as usual) because it suggests that the zone-read is nothing more than a gimmick that can be "figured out." As Shanahan said, the zone read is just a running play that takes away the numbers mismatch that defenses have always benefited from in a typical run play (because the QB typically can't block anyone or do anything after handing the ball off).

    So, to try and fix this inherent numbers problem, the zone read is designed to simply leave the weakside DE unblocked. This allows the offense to attack the strongside defenders with an extra blocker than usual. It's that simple. But wait? If there's an unblocked DE, what's stopping him from simply chasing down the RB? Well, it's because the QB is reading that unblocked DE, and if he over pursues right away, then the QB has the option to simply keep the ball and run with it in the opposite direction (with no one in his way anymore). That's it. You are simply trying to get an extra blocker to help the RB run it to one side, while still making that unblocked DE a moment of pause before pursuing that RB (because he knows the QB can keep it). That's it.

    [​IMG]

    It's not a gimmick. It's just a numbers game that you can now win by making the D hesitate.

    Offenses trying to even-up that inherent numbers mismatch is nothing new. It's entirely why offenses will "pull the guard" from the weakside to get him on a strongside defender (i.e. a "power" run). And what if defenses eventually over pursue to take away the advantage of that extra guard? Well, luckily, offenses also invented another play (a "counter" run) where the RB delays/fakes to the strongside, only to run it to the weakside while the o-line is now pulling the strongside guard and/or fullback to attack those weakside defenders. Thus, you can attack one side of the field while still making defenders stay at home and not over pursue.

    Counter:
    [​IMG]

    The zone read is just a new and different way of trying to create a similar dynamic: getting an extra blocker to attack one side of the field, while not allowing the D to easily take it away. You can run these concepts in a million different ways, too. It will never go away.

    The difference? "power" and "counter" are two different plays; once compliments the other. But the zone read is like having the option to run either play all at once...after the D has tipped their hand and shown you their initial reaction, too.
     
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  7. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Except this approach does absolutely nothing to solve core of the problem; making that uncovered DE be in two places at once. He has to pursue RB if he wants to nullify that blocking advantage, while still staying in his gap to stop the QB from simply keeping the ball.

    EDIT: Sorry, my gifs aren't showing up, but here a link to an article where I got one from + answers your question to the "mesh-point-blowup" solution.

    Long live the read option
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 8:57 PM
  8. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Let the OB keep the ball...then Kill him.
     
  9. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    "Letting" the QB keep the ball means you are pursuing the RB. So, again, you can't be in two places at once.
     
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  10. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The DE should light up the qb every time. They will stop running it.
     
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  11. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker On the Game Day Roster

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    I agree with Cap and Nunchucks. The DE should assume the QB is the runner. They can have that big gain on that play but those hits on the QB add up. No QB wants to get hit on a running play as they get hit enough when they are passing. They'll stop doing it.
     
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  12. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'm seriously laughing/scratching-my-head over what you are attempt to "agree" with. There's little to speculate on anymore. The zone read has been around for the better part of a decade now. A decade. And in that same time-span the same fans have kept trying to dismiss it with the same "just hit the QB" argument, too. We've even heard coaches say it (i.e. Mike Tomlin). If this approach had any merit, we'd see it by now. Not just in the NFL, but especially in the NCAA where they use use the zone read way more frequently.

    With that being said, you correctly point out QBs already gets hit again and again when they drop back (like 35+ times per game, or so). But you simultaneously think that a QB getting hit on, say, 5-10 zone-read plays would somehow/someway be the tipping point that no QB would live to tell about? I don't think so. Not to mention, getting hit on passing plays means that the QB most-likely wouldn't be looking at the rush when he gets hit. Meanwhile, the zone read requires the QB to be looking at that uncovered DE; so he's always going to see the contact coming. So, it's not like the QB is at risk of getting blind-sighted, or anything.

    Really, this season saw breakout performances from Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, and Jimmy Garroppolo. None of these guys are run-first QBs either, yet they all incorporated the zone read successfully. And even guys that are more run oriented, like Russel Wilson and Alex Smith, led the league in TDs and Passer Rating this year too; they still used the zone read. It's no longer solely for the Tim Tebow's of the NFL (i.e. DeShone Kizer) or obvious run-first QBs like Marcus Mariota or Cam Newton. It's not going anywhere.
     
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  13. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I can’t tell if this is the kind of question that Belichick would scoff at and give a non-answer to or if he would open up a soliloquy like he sometimes does at Tuesday press conferences when someone asks him about how special teams strategy changed between 1985 and 1993.

    I’m guessing the former. But when he chooses the second option, I’d pay admission to hear what he has to say.
     
  14. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker On the Game Day Roster

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    I can't answer that question as to why defenses aren't told to go hit the QB whether or not he has the ball. I think the only difference that these QB's you mention run it more like a play action then them planning to run. Guy's like Tebow gave defenders more time to hit him. With that being said, I don't see many QB's using the zone read very often. The RPO may be the new hot thing.
     
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  15. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  16. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker On the Game Day Roster

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    All essential traits on how to be like "Sammy Blue Cat"!
     
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  17. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks. Essential traits to winning championships :)
     
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    BaconGrundleCandy In the Starting Line-Up

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  19. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker On the Game Day Roster

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    BaconGrundleCandy In the Starting Line-Up

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    The answer was partly already given to you here …

    Also youre looking at things from a casual/simple pov with all due respect. Yes there are times when a player can make an impact by burying the QB (like 54 vs KC this year against Smith/Hunt I believe but overall again its a very simple way of looking at things. The big thing that KS was trying to get across was with the right personnel you run anything.

    And variations go back even further when you consider where/who he learned it from and eventually adapted to his preferences. If you just started watching football 2-3 years ago I could see this line of thinking but its 2018.
     
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