Setting Stidham up for Success

[sb1]

That's ok. Not everyone here really grasps NFL football.
Players/ coaches on the level of TB/BB will end up being great no matter where they go. It would take longer for both to achieve greatness and probably not to the degree they did.
But both would be all-time greats regardless.
Would Joe Montana and Bill Walsh both have sucked if they never were on the same team?
How about Russell and Aeurbach? Great players and coaches will still be great.
Just not AS great.

First you said Brady would likely be GOAT no matter where he was. Now you’re saying something else. “Great” and GOAT aren’t close to the same thing.

Also I don’t think Brady would have even gotten a chance to be great with another team. Sixth round draft picks with the reputation of a system QB usually don’t.

 

[sb1]

Just a flat out ridiculous take.

Nothing wrong with that take.

 

[Wozzy]

That's ok. Not everyone here really grasps NFL football.
Players/ coaches on the level of TB/BB will end up being great no matter where they go. It would take longer for both to achieve greatness and probably not to the degree they did.
But both would be all-time greats regardless.
Would Joe Montana and Bill Walsh both have sucked if they never were on the same team?
How about Russell and Aeurbach? Great players and coaches will still be great.
Just not AS great.

Basketball and football are apples and oranges. A QB with zero mobility behind the worst OLine in the league gets slaughtered, there's no avoiding that. Fans can moan all they want about BB not providing enough weapons for Tom (silly) but he has had some of the best blocking in the league for two decades. He's also had some of the best defense's to get him the ball back at a high rate and special teams to put the offense in a good position. If Brady goes to Arizona in 2000 the coaching and front office doesn't automatically improve. Football teams have 53 man rosters, basketball is nothing like football.

 

[Wozzy]

Who on here is giving BB credit for Baltimore’s 2000 title?

Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome (hired by Bill) credited BB with the title. Bill set up the way the front office was run, the value systems for player evaluation and scouting, as well as the method of spreading the money across the 53 man roster.

The reason that Ozzie Newsome drafted Johnathan Ogden in 1996 was because BB was going to draft him in Cleveland before he was fired. Also Belichick spent many hours with Ray Lewis before the draft. The Ravens drafted Lewis in the second round before the Pats picked. Pats ended up picking Milloy and then in the third round the Pats picked Tedy Bruschi.

Newsome credits BB for a lot of his success, as he should.

 

[jimnance]

You guys are whack. I'm done. Im not wasting my time with dudes who are so football- ignorant. I could rip both of you apart pretty easily but it's not worth the energy.
I'm guessing none of y'all have played sports beyond middle school.
You surely don't understand the competitive nature of athletes, especially great athletes.
The only athlete I've EVER seen with as strong a competitive fire as Brady is MJ.
Period.

 

[Wozzy]

You guys are whack. I'm done. Im not wasting my time with dudes who are so football- ignorant. I could rip both of you apart pretty easily but it's not worth the energy.
I'm guessing none of y'all have played sports beyond middle school.
You surely don't understand the competitive nature of athletes, especially great athletes.
The only athlete I've EVER seen with as strong a competitive fire as Brady is MJ.
Period.

You just compared basketball to football... but okay.

Trying to remember the last basketball player who got paralyzed shooting hoops...

 

[Kasmir]

Just a flat out ridiculous take.

It's possible that Brady would never had gotten a shot without Belichick. He couldn't beat out Brian Griese or Drew Henson at Michigan, and despite his being a winner he barely got drafted. Hell, even on the Patriots in 2000 he couldn't beat out Michael Bishop.

That all seems crazy in retrospect, but in 2000 Brady was getting no respect from anyone in football. With that lack of pedigree on most teams he could easily have not been given the chance he needed to get playing time to develop into the GOAT .

When "#1 overall pick franchise QB" Drew Bledsoe came back from his injury and Belichick stuck with Brady some sportswriters in this town wanted Belichick's head for that decision. If you told anyone even at the end of the 2001 regular season that Brady could become the GOAT you'd be laughed at by everyone in football.

Belichick deserves little credit for drafting him, but everything for giving Brady the chance to play and for developing him in his early years.

But once he was given the opportunity by Belichick, Brady's becoming the GOAT was Brady's personal triumphant accomplishment.

 

[jimnance]

It's possible that Brady would never had gotten a shot without Belichick. He couldn't beat out Brian Griese or Drew Henson at Michigan, and despite his being a winner he barely got drafted. Hell, even on the Patriots in 2000 he couldn't beat out Michael Bishop.

That all seems crazy in retrospect, but in 2000 Brady was getting no respect from anyone in football. With that lack of pedigree on most teams he could easily have not been given the chance he needed to get playing time to develop into the GOAT .

When "#1 overall pick franchise QB" Drew Bledsoe came back from his injury and Belichick stuck with Brady some sportswriters in this town wanted Belichick's head for that decision. If you told anyone even at the end of the 2001 regular season that Brady could become the GOAT you'd be laughed at by everyone in football.

Belichick deserves little credit for drafting him, but everything for giving Brady the chance to play and for developing him in his early years.

But once he was given the opportunity by Belichick, Brady's becoming the GOAT was Brady's personal triumphant accomplishment.

The point is, you don't become the goat w/o a combination of mad skills and killer competiveness. Even if Brady had been an udfa, wouldn't matter. He would've ended up a franchise QB somewhere and been an all-time great.
You're wrong about his time at Michigan.
He was clearly the best QB there by far and all the players knew it. Carr knew it after awhile as well. BB has said many times that prior to the 2001 season Brady was the best QB on the team.
But he felt he could benefit from being Bledsoes backup that year.
A player doesn't go from being the goat to never playing in the NFL based on who drafts them. I don't care if he went to the Bengals he still would've been the goat.

 

[fnordcircle]

I'm guessing none of y'all have played sports beyond middle school.

Since when is that a requirement to be a fan with an opinion?

 

[jimnance]

You just compared basketball to football... but okay.

Trying to remember the last basketball player who got paralyzed shooting hoops...

Dude I didn't compare hoops to football.
I played both. Been a fan of both since the 60's.
You've obviously never coached.
Coaching matters more in football than any other team sport. Duh. We all know that. It's like saying dogs bark. Fish swim.
But as BB has said many times and it's FACT. Players win games. Players win games.
BB is not bringing the team back.from 28-3 in the SB. Ain't happening. There's no bigger BB fan than me. Like Brady, BB is the undisputed goat.
But there's no more important position in team sports than QB.
A great QB, Brady, Montana, Unitas ,maybe even Mahomes in a few years controls the outcome of a game more than any other individual on or off the field. That includes the goat coach.
I boxed, played a little football and played hoops. I know about the attrition if hard collision sports.
I think BB by himself would have a bigger impact on a game 99% of the time than any great player at any position EXCEPT QB.
For all his genius,Walsh isn't winning SBs w/o Montana.
Anyway I'm a realist. Brady did play for BB. Brady is the goat. So is BB. Who gives a fook which one was more important?
W/O either one, the NE Pats ain't winning close to 6 SBs.
Y'all can live in your hypothetical, fantasy lands. I live in reality.
W/o Brady Pats don't sniff anywhere close to 6 SBs . Same w/o BB.

 

[rochrist]

The team he coached became the Ravens so comparing them to the lineage of the modern Browns who are a glorified expansion team is foolish. It’s not rocket science. Shouldn’t have been hard to keep up.

Now answer the question

That isn't what you said.

 

[jimnance]

Since when is that a requirement to be a fan with an opinion?

It's not. But they were both showing a complete lack of understanding the competitive nature of top athletes. Doesn't mean you had to have played sports to get that, but it helps. There are many extremely knowledgeable fans right here on this board that get it and never played sports. These guys are tossing their bogus, biased opinions around like they're the final word on the subject.

 

[lancerman]

That isn't what you said.

It’s exactly what I said. Still no answer

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Bill Russell was drafted #1 and Michael Jordan #3 overall. Brady was drafted #199. Brady's career chances without Belichick are like Edelman's - near zero without Belichick giving low picks a chance

 

[jimnance]

Bill Russell was drafted #1 and Michael Jordan #3 overall. Brady was drafted #199. Brady's career chances without Belichick are like Edelman's - near zero without Belichick giving low picks a chance

Lol. Ok dude.

 

[fnordcircle]

It's not. But they were both showing a complete lack of understanding the competitive nature of top athletes. Doesn't mean you had to have played sports to get that, but it helps. There are many extremely knowledgeable fans right here on this board that get it and never played sports. These guys are tossing their bogus, biased opinions around like they're the final word on the subject.

Idk man, sometimes the 'extremely knowledgeable' tag gets thrown around as if to say someone who has played sports or at least appears 'extremely knowledgeable' has opinions that should not be debated by the common rabble and honestly, what's the point of a discussion board then?

By that logic nobody should be saying anything about decisions the Patriots make because none of us have anywhere near the experience and knowledge of Bill Belichick...

I'm a Brady fanboy and think he got done dirty by the team but citing credentials to shut down opinions to the contrary is bad form.

 

[jimnance]

Idk man, sometimes the 'extremely knowledgeable' tag gets thrown around as if to say someone who has played sports or at least appears 'extremely knowledgeable' has opinions that should not be debated by the common rabble and honestly, what's the point of a discussion board then?

By that logic nobody should be saying anything about decisions the Patriots make because none of us have anywhere near the experience and knowledge of Bill Belichick...

I'm a Brady fanboy and think he got done dirty by the team but citing credentials to shut down opinions to the contrary is bad form.

Agree and it's not my m.o. But what they were posting was so ridiculously ludicrous...
The alternative was for me to go into a lengthy dissertation on the subject to try and enlighten those who probably can't be enlightened. I just don't have the time or energy to engage in long debates especially with very biased people. There's plenty of room for all kinds of opinions but they need to have some connection to reality.

 

[sb1]

It's not. But they were both showing a complete lack of understanding the competitive nature of top athletes. Doesn't mean you had to have played sports to get that, but it helps. There are many extremely knowledgeable fans right here on this board that get it and never played sports. These guys are tossing their bogus, biased opinions around like they're the final word on the subject.

You’re talking like our ex QB is the only NFL player in history to be a competitive athlete. Lol.

No way Brady would be in the league today if Bill didn’t give him a chance in 00. A guy whose scouting report was less than flattering. No way. No how. Nobody is going to convince me otherwise. Sorry if that offends the Bradyites. Nah not really.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You’re talking like our ex QB is the only NFL player in history to be a competitive athlete. Lol.

No way Brady would be in the league today if Bill didn’t give him a chance in 00. A guy whose scouting report was less than flattering. No way. No how. Nobody is going to convince me otherwise. Sorry if that offends the Bradyites. Nah not really.

Yup. I wish I could say Brady would have been a superstar no matter what but I don't believe it. undrafted Malcolm Butler, zero way he ever makes his one pro bowl and ring without Belichick. Same with Edelman, love the guy but Belichick made his career. 198 picks passed on Brady and no guarantee he'd even find a backup QB job back in 2000 without Belichick

 

[sb1]

You’re talking like our ex QB is the only NFL player in history to be a competitive athlete. Lol.

No way Brady would be in the league today if Bill didn’t give him a chance in 00. A guy whose scouting report was less than flattering. No way. No how. Nobody is going to convince me otherwise. Sorry if that offends the Bradyites. Nah not really.

And I didn’t call him a system QB as one Bradyite accused me. His draft profile did. And I’m supposed to believe a lesser organization like say the Lions would have drafted him anyway and he would have become goat with them.

I don’t think so.