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Right Now At PatsFans.com:
AFC Champs
New England took care of the Steelers Sunday night, and now they'll set their sights on a trip to Houston in two weeks.


Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

RT @RyanHannable: Thanks to Martellus Bennett, Johnny Manziel attends AFC championship and documents experience on social media https://t.c…

RT @Trags: In a career of great games, Tom Brady puts up one of his best to reach 7th Super Bowl. My column - WEEI https://t.co/bTAVtrE9wH…

@FlanneryBrian I'll get some sleep and think about it

@FlanneryBrian I think Ryan. But I don't know. Feel like that's the type of job Ryan always gets.

RT @ninko50: AFC champs!!! But we aren't done yet, one more to go!!!#SuperBowl #SuperBowl https://t.co/XKF0u0Jy0W

AFC champs!!! But we aren't done yet, one more to go!!!#SuperBowl #SuperBowl https://t.co/XKF0u0Jy0W

RT @CSNNE: Tom Brady allows himself to enjoy win vs. #Steelers : '[Bleep], you've got to be happy now' - @PhilAPerry #Steelers https://t.co/…

@dokerjams I appreciate those words, Bill. I also try to make sure to never take this for granted.

I wore a teal suit tonight. Watch me talk about the Patriots' defense in it. https://t.co/hnqGK3fNT4

"Sights and sounds" feature focuses on big day for @ChrisHogan_15 in Patriots' win. https://t.co/ysllAnSeSc

RT @ImaginationAgcy: @MartysaurusRex tying Jett's shoes post #playoffs WIN! @Barbie Your commercial was right. Real men 💗football but daugh…

@Jackie_Pepper @ABC Except didnt DT move to eliminate federal DV programs on day 1?

RT @DonBanks: The playoffs have been mostly routs, but Super Bowl has something old, something new for a matchup: Snap Judgments:

So happy ashleyboccio was able to come today! So thankful for her and everyone else that came… https://t.co/2AEA1l5jvI

@TMurph207 Early bird gets the worm. Or in this case, 9 catches for a Patriots playoff record 180 yards and 2 TDs.

RT @BenVolin: Nice goal line D and all, but Patriots are just taking away clock and timeouts from the offense. Steelers get the ball to sta…

Ohhhh BTW..... screenshotted this just to refresh everyone on what's up .... keep score folks https://t.co/RIC0nTNPef

RT @KevinMcNamara33: Kevin McNamara: Patriots ace so-called 'toughest test' to reach record-ninth Super Bowl #Patriots https://t.co/YPE7I1h…

RT @mikemcdermott76: Falcons' Ryan will try to do what Steelers' Roethlisberger couldn't -- beat the Pats https://t.co/I2CK7FpmHc via @bria

RT @KevinMcNamara33: Patriots not taking another trip to Super Bowl for granted #Patriots https://t.co/NoNR9oLbu3

RT @brianmacp: The goal-line stand that won the Patriots the AFC title: https://t.co/AimpP7SHjj

RT @DanWetzel: New England heads to the Super Bowl again, this time with Roger Goodell as the sideshow: https://t.co/wxoUcIkUeW


Semi-OT: Houston releases OL Brennan Williams

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mayoclinic, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    The best that can be said about Harmon so far is that at least he's better than the Error Repeater.

    As for the OP, I kinda hope that Bill claims/signs Brennan Williams so that he can place him on IR
    (e.g.: Jake Ballard, Josh Barrett) and see how it goes in 2015.
     
  2. PatFanCraig

    PatFanCraig Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I wouldn't call VOLLMER a reach or a steal. He wasn't a steal because Round2 draft picks should play very well. I like VOLLMER a lot but before he can be called a steal in Round2 he needs to be as good as Round one elite LTs and perennial pro bowler. He is doing what players picked in Round 2 are expected. Play very well and make a pro bowl or 2. VOLLMER wasn't a reach reach because he started flying up draft boards after workouts and a closer look at his athleticism. Many teams were going to draft him in round3 and felt he was similar to Eben Britton but stronger. Being a big white dude from another country he was stereotyped as tight and stiff. New evaluations after the draft publications were released, changed their opinion on his athleticism. Vollmer was learned to be a major bada$$. A scout I know had him ranked as best tackle prospect behind ONLY Monroe. Same scout who others disagreed when he thought Jason Smith should be a late Round one at best and predicted him to struggle in the NFL unless he got stronger in many ways.
     
  3. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "I like VOLLMER a lot but before he can be called a steal in Round2 he needs to be as good as Round one elite LTs and perennial pro bowler."

    Newsflash, Nervous Norman...Vollmer has been a RIGHT TACKLE since 2011..and has made a Pro Bowl.
     
  4. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! Goodell sucks PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The fan base generally thought that Solder and Light were big reaches too. The lesson? when it comes to drafting tackles, IBBIT
     
  5. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle User has put you on their 'ignore' list. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unless you have access to the other 31 team draft boards calling anything a reach is just jerkoff know it all fan and draft 'analyst' bullshit. You simply cannot know if the next 31 teams would have all drafted Tavon if given a chance.

    What I prefer to do is just judge whether or not it was a good pick and so far it doesn't look that way because the player hasn't played at a level worth of the position he was drafted not because of what the other 31 teams may or may not have done.
     
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  6. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! Goodell sucks PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Second round picks are *expected* to become All Pros (which Vollmer is)? Any second rounder who becomes a better than league average starter has outperformed his draft position. Any who becomes an all pro is a home run pick.

    Plus the fact that he was picked in one of the worst drafts ever makes him even more of a steal
     
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Player drafted significantly above where he was projected by general consensus = Reach (Tavon Wilson)
    Player drafted significantly below were he was projected by general consensus = Steal (Manziel)
    Player who dropped because of known issues which were expected to make him drop, is taken, and thrives = Steal (Dennard)
    Player who was drafted low, where expected, and becomes a quality player = Steal (Edelman)
    Player who was drafted fairly high (usually first 2 rounds, though this seems to be changing, as people seem to be including rounds 3 and lower at times) and fails to make it in the NFL at a level commensurate with where he was taken = Bust or Disappointment, depending on just how far he fell short.

    It's really that simple, because they're just shorthand terms to describe a draft day happening. Why people feel the need to read more deeply into it than that is a matter for the shrinks.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  8. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN So... back to it! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What the hell would it have mattered if the Pats would have waited and someone else would have taken Tavon? The guy hasn't exactly been a HOFer to date. It was a reach. There was some viable talent taken after him that would have been better picks for the Pats. It is what it is. As was mentioned, Vollmer was also a reach. But he's worked out. Tavon hasn't. If Belichick is allowed to get the genius label thrown at him for reaches that have worked, he deserves equal criticism reaches that haven't.
     
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  9. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle User has put you on their 'ignore' list. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I feel like we're about to enter a big dumb semantics debate but ok.

    Reach = Player taken earlier than was necessary to get him.
    Bust = Player who didn't play to the potential of their pick.

    At least those are the definitions as I understand them. A player who is considered a 'reach' can still be a fine player. If you could go back in time, knowing what we know, then taking Tom Brady in the 2nd would be a reach because he was available in the 6th.

    Which is my point, without knowing the other team's draft boards it's impossible short of a delorean and latent Parkinson's to truly know if someone was a reach. We can all tell when someone was a bust, though and I'd say Tavon looks to be one.
     
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  10. woolster22

    woolster22 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Vollmer has been an excellent right tackle with some health problems. The leg was one of those unfortunate injuries. The other injuries are the more worrisome types though...when healthy his play seems to warrant his pick as a consistent starting caliber player. Plenty of first round picks don't achieve that performance. While maybe he isn't a steal, he is certainly a strong pick.
     
  11. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Also worth noting is that I suspect there's a lot of groupthink with draft analysts. They may say this guy is in the late 2nd round range because they all seem to agree that this guy's in the late 2nd round range and no one wants to buck this trend. Most of the quibbles are over where players fall in the top 50 but rarely is it outside of a few spots. This may not be true with teams and their personnel departments, who have different evaluations of players.
     
  12. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I don't think there were any big Safeties picked after Tavon in that draft, that amounted to much...

    If there were, please enlighten me.
     
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN So... back to it! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A reach can either be a smashing success or a colossal failure. I've given examples of both. Vollmer was a reach panned by the board who ended up being a smashing success because he's one of the best OL on the team. Wilson, to this point, is a reach that is a colossal failure because, to this point, he's sucked the fattest **** on the field. If the team had lost out on Tavon because they took someone better at another position in the 2nd that actually had 2nd round talent, hell fire and brimstone wouldn't have exactly fallen from the sky.

    You realize that there were more positions of need that year than just safety, correct? You realize that there were other, more talented options at those other positions of need drafted after Wilson, correct?
     
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  14. NE_PATS_FAN_54

    NE_PATS_FAN_54 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Tough to hear this about a local kid. He grew up in Easton, MA, went to Catholic Memorial before UNC. Haven't seen it mentioned here, but he is also the son of former Patriot DE Brent Williams. Hope the kid gets healthy and gets another shot.
     
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  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Houston cuts 2013 4th round pick Trevardo Williams today:

    Texans cut another 2013 draft pick | ProFootballTalk

    15 months later, Houston's 2013 draft looks like this:

    1(27). WR DeAndre Hopkins. Had a good rookie year, with 52 receptions for 802 yards and 2 TDs.

    2(52). S DJ Swearinger. Had a solid rookie year, starting 10 games with 71 tackles, 1 FF and 1 INT. I wanted him for the Pats.

    3(89). OT Brennan Williams. Cut. Never played a game for the Texans.

    3(95). DE/OLB Sam Montgomery. Cut his rookie season for violation of team rules.

    4(124). DE/OLB Trevardo Williams. Spent all of 2013 on IR after sustaining an injury in preseason. Started 2014 on PUP. Cut today.

    6(176). OL David Quessenberry. Missed almost all of 2013 on IR with a foot injury. Now unfortunately diagnosed with lymphoma, placed on NFI list.

    6(195). WR Alan Bonner. Spent 2013 on IR. Cut at the beginning of training camp this year.

    6(198). DT Chris Jones. Cut at the end of August, picked up by Tampa Bay, cut again. Now with the Pats, where he started most of 2013 after injuries to others.

    6(201). TE Ryan Griffin. Had 19 receptions for 244 yards and 1 TD in 2013.​


    Not what they probably hoped for a year ago.
     
  16. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Too bad about Brennan Williams, and also about David Quessenberry, whom I really liked as a LT/LG
    prospect. Had Bill not predictably wasted their 2013 5th-rounder on Fat Albert, I would've been happy
    if it had been used instead on Quessenberry.
     

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