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Sealver Siliga and the improved run defense


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Re: Siliga and the improved run defense

I certainly hope Spikes stays.

I agree and I think there is a strong possibility that he will return, I do not think Brandon Spikes has the same value to other teams as he does here. Spikes needs to be on a team with a player like Mayo who is capable of going 3-downs and playing sideline-to-sideline; he excels at playing a gap and exploding at towards the line of scrimmage. He is not Sean Lee or Brian Cushing he is not going to command big money on the FA market in my opinion. I expect him to be back on 1-3 year deal at about $1.5-$2 million per.
 
I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if it's already been brought up, but I would assume that a bit of a change in scheme (going from a 2 gap to a 1 gap, and from a 3-4 which we saw earlier to a 4-3) may be helping too.

That said, I also think that Siliga has been a very nice addition and is responsible for the improvement to some degree.

I think you’re on the money that the return to the 4-3 has helped but I think Siliga made that possible because he can adequately play the 1Tech as 2-gap DT which allows us to play the fronts we used with Wilfork which is a hybrid front.

LDE (1-gap): Ninkovich
3Tech DT (1-gap): Jones (#94)
1Tech NT (2-gap): Siliga
RDE (2-gap): Jones (#95)

The way I saw it (I could be wrong) was – Vellano and Jones were not capable of taking on 2 OL due to their smaller stature and lesser strength so the team was getting beat up the gut which forced the team to move to a 3-4 front which at first was Chris Jones at the NT, Vellano at LDE and Fortson at RDE, then they trade for Sopoaga who didn’t appear to fit as anything other than a 0Tech NT so they put him at the nose and replace Fortson with Chris Jones, in this front they were exposed a lot in coverage because it had Chandler Jones and Ninkovich as the OLBs, with Spikes and Hightower as the ILBs all very limited in coverage. Siliga has allowed them to return to the 4-3 which takes Ninkovich or Jones out of coverage put Jamie Collins on the field more in coverage. This is where I see the most dramatic difference.
 
Re: Siliga and the improved run defense

I agree and I think there is a strong possibility that he will return, I do not think Brandon Spikes has the same value to other teams as he does here. Spikes needs to be on a team with a player like Mayo who is capable of going 3-downs and playing sideline-to-sideline; he excels at playing a gap and exploding at towards the line of scrimmage. He is not Sean Lee or Brian Cushing he is not going to command big money on the FA market in my opinion. I expect him to be back on 1-3 year deal at about $1.5-$2 million per.

I agree that he needs to find the right fit and situation, but I'm also a bit leery of some of those teams with 30-40 million in cap space throwing money at players who have made a name for themselves on winning franchises, and I think that Spikes will be attracting attention for sure.

As far as the projected amount of worth for him, I think you're closer to a lot of other posters who are throwing around 4-5 million dollar AAV guesses, but I'm also assuming that it may be in the middle of your 1.5/2 and their 4/5. In other words, I'm going to take a stab at 3--3.5 million AAV, and my concern is that Belichick may not see the value in keeping him, although I certainly hope that he stays for the right price myself.
 
Loving what I have seen from Siliga so far. Hopefully he continues to improve. If he does, he takes away a huge need going into the off season. He could potentially be the long term replacement for Vince. Let's just see how he ends the season first.
 
Re: Siliga and the improved run defense

I agree and I think there is a strong possibility that he will return, I do not think Brandon Spikes has the same value to other teams as he does here. Spikes needs to be on a team with a player like Mayo who is capable of going 3-downs and playing sideline-to-sideline; he excels at playing a gap and exploding at towards the line of scrimmage. He is not Sean Lee or Brian Cushing he is not going to command big money on the FA market in my opinion. I expect him to be back on 1-3 year deal at about $1.5-$2 million per.

LIke Deus Irae, I hope the Pats retain Brandon Spikes. He adds an element that few other LBs offer.
 
Count me as one who thinks that the run D is improving. The are now 24th in yards per attempt and 11th in forced fumbles, middle of the pack in 20+ yard runs. Since Siliga started playing they've allowed about 4.2 yards a rush and should be less than that if you exclude Cam Newton.

All in all, it's not great but not as awful as the mediots make it out to be.
 
Count me as one who thinks that the run D is improving. The are now 24th in yards per attempt and 11th in forced fumbles, middle of the pack in 20+ yard runs. Since Siliga started playing they've allowed about 4.2 yards a rush and should be less than that if you exclude Cam Newton.

All in all, it's not great but not as awful as the mediots make it out to be.

The Ravens have a lousy running game this year (worst in the league in y/a). The Dolphins have a below average running attack. The Browns have a below average running attack. The last time the Patriots faced a good running team was against the Texans, and Tate had no problem running the ball. The run defense might be better. We won't really know that, though, until we see it against a good running team.
 
Re: Siliga and the improved run defense

Sure, I hope we retain Spikes. The question is whether we will be able to give him the most attractive offer.

LIke Deus Irae, I hope the Pats retain Brandon Spikes. He adds an element that few other LBs offer.
 
The Ravens have a lousy running game this year (worst in the league in y/a). The Dolphins have a below average running attack. The Browns have a below average running attack. The last time the Patriots faced a good running team was against the Texans, and Tate had no problem running the ball. The run defense might be better. We won't really know that, though, until we see it against a good running team.

Agreed on the Ravens rushing attack. They suck.

They were brutal vs HOU.

I thought overall they did OK vs CAR holding Williams down. The Jets OT loss they allowed 3.4 ypc but I think we'd agree that the Jets owned the LoS.
 
Agreed on the Ravens rushing attack. They suck.

They were brutal vs HOU.

I thought overall they did OK vs CAR holding Williams down. The Jets OT loss they allowed 3.4 ypc but I think we'd agree that the Jets owned the LoS.

Siliga's only played in the last 4 games, though. Also, if you're going to go back all the way to Carolina, you have to include the Broncos game, where Denver racked up almost 300 yards rushing.

I'm not saying that they're definitely not improving. I'm just saying that we don't really know if they are because of the opponents they've faced recently.
 
Siliga's only played in the last 4 games, though. Also, if you're going to go back all the way to Carolina, you have to include the Broncos game, where Denver racked up almost 300 yards rushing.

I'm not saying that they're definitely not improving. I'm just saying that we don't really know if they are because of the opponents they've faced recently.

I agree. We don't know yet how good of a run D they have. I brought up the Jets and CAR game as instances of success and potential. The DEN game was a disaster no question. I do think that they were daring them to run but some of Moreno's carries where was untouched were just plain horrible.

I do think that if they were to face a very good running team like KC in the playoffs, they would be hard pressed to keep them down.
 
I agree that we cannot yet judge the quality of the run defense, although all acknowledge that they are vastly improved.

For me, stats are misleading. Much depends on game plan. For example, if we were play a good running team like KC, we would basically have Spike and Hightower as run defenders almost full time. This would force more man-to-man for the secondary, but they can handle it well.

I agree. We don't know yet how good of a run D they have. I brought up the Jets and CAR game as instances of success and potential. The DEN game was a disaster no question. I do think that they were daring them to run but some of Moreno's carries where was untouched were just plain horrible.

I do think that if they were to face a very good running team like KC in the playoffs, they would be hard pressed to keep them down.
 
I agree that we cannot yet judge the quality of the run defense, although all acknowledge that they are vastly improved.

:confused:
 
I think you’re on the money that the return to the 4-3 has helped but I think Siliga made that possible because he can adequately play the 1Tech as 2-gap DT which allows us to play the fronts we used with Wilfork which is a hybrid front.

LDE (1-gap): Ninkovich
3Tech DT (1-gap): Jones (#94)
1Tech NT (2-gap): Siliga
RDE (2-gap): Jones (#95)

The way I saw it (I could be wrong) was – Vellano and Jones were not capable of taking on 2 OL due to their smaller stature and lesser strength so the team was getting beat up the gut which forced the team to move to a 3-4 front which at first was Chris Jones at the NT, Vellano at LDE and Fortson at RDE, then they trade for Sopoaga who didn’t appear to fit as anything other than a 0Tech NT so they put him at the nose and replace Fortson with Chris Jones, in this front they were exposed a lot in coverage because it had Chandler Jones and Ninkovich as the OLBs, with Spikes and Hightower as the ILBs all very limited in coverage. Siliga has allowed them to return to the 4-3 which takes Ninkovich or Jones out of coverage put Jamie Collins on the field more in coverage. This is where I see the most dramatic difference.

This post gives me thinky pain. Just a couple of things to note on this.
1) It is impossible to 2-gap on a shaded technique. Odd techniques mean that the defender is aligned on the outside shoulder of the offensive player they are over. If you are shaded, it is simply impossible to stack the blocker and control two gaps.
2) It is also impossible to both 2-gap and 1-gap on the same play...well, I mean you "can", it just wouldn't work.
3) There is, however, accuracy in your general sentiment that they Patriots have recognized that they lack the personnel to effectively 2-gap up front and have made a shift to single gapping way more than they usually play the run.
4) Siliga is getting too much credit. He's just much better than Vellano who was really, really bad.
5) The players who really deserve the credit in the improvement in the run game are the linebackers, especially Spikes and Hightower. If you 1-gap or have linemen who can't tie up the gaps you have to have linebackers who can get off blocks easily. It is one of the few true advantages of having a pair of minus speed mike linebackers on the field in your 43, they should and do get off blocks.
6) Of course what this means is that you will be hindered in your pursuit game unless your ends can maintain the sealed edges and turn the plays back inside, which they have been doing an exceptional job of. Ninkovich is so exceedingly solid at everything it blows my mind. I'll take 11 Ninkovich's any day. He's not flashy, he just wins. Edge Bruschi.
7) If your ends play well and your backers can get off blocks you can play well in the run game with sub par defensive tackles. Which is exactly what is happening this season. I know it's the season of "Oh man, can you imagine if _______ was healthy?", but seriously, if Wilfork and Kelly were healthy this defense would be scary good. Like best since '03/'04, probably third best under Belichick good.
 
I think that we are much better with Siliga and Sopoaga on the squad. I think the run defense is much improved over the team of 2 months ago.

Obviously, we have not made up for the loss of Mayo and Kelly (I don't think that Wilfork was ever a factor this year, playing hurt even before his injury). But I think Slliga and Sopoaga have a helped a lot. Clearly, the schemes have been worked out to use Spikes and Hightower more on run defense.

 
I think that we are much better with Siliga and Sopoaga on the squad. I think the run defense is much improved over the team of 2 months ago.

Obviously, we have not made up for the loss of Mayo and Kelly (I don't think that Wilfork was ever a factor this year, playing hurt even before his injury). But I think Slliga and Sopoaga have a helped a lot. Clearly, the schemes have been worked out to use Spikes and Hightower more on run defense.

Sopoaga has helped so much that he's not playing, and I already pointed out the issue of opponents regarding Siliga's brief stint. Plus, this is Patsfans.com, so you can understand my surprise when you put in a claim the likes of

although all acknowledge that they are vastly improved.
 
Sopoaga has helped so much that he's not playing, and I already pointed out the issue of opponents regarding Siliga's brief stint.

Siliga did an adequate job against Marshall Yanda on Sunday. He is not going to play against anyone much better.
 
1) It is impossible to 2-gap on a shaded technique. Odd techniques mean that the defender is aligned on the outside shoulder of the offensive player they are over. If you are shaded, it is simply impossible to stack the blocker and control two gaps.

This is the front the Patriots like to run in either a 4-3 over a 4-3 under formation.

2) It is also impossible to both 2-gap and 1-gap on the same play...well, I mean you "can", it just wouldn't work
.

That is not true, multiple teams use 2-gap and 1-gap assignments these days. Seattle is well known for it as well.

4) Siliga is getting too much credit. He's just much better than Vellano who was really, really bad.

I don’t think he is getting to much credit, considering he came off the practice squad at mid-season and is contributing and helping fix a major issue in our front seven I say the credit is merited. To be clear I am not appointing him an all pro I think he could provide some long term value as Wilfork’s backup or a bridge player as we develop a draft prospect.

5) The players who really deserve the credit in the improvement in the run game are the linebackers, especially Spikes and Hightower. If you 1-gap or have linemen who can't tie up the gaps you have to have linebackers who can get off blocks easily. It is one of the few true advantages of having a pair of minus speed mike linebackers on the field in your 43, they should and do get off blocks.

Spikes snap count:

43/73
21/63
47/76

Spikes had a good game on Sunday but the week before against Miami he was a complete non-factor he play 1/3 of the snaps and didn’t register so much as an assist. Hightower I agree has played better.
 

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i have to admit it looks Siliga have been a great addition to the team and till now he playied well

if he will continue to develop it could become a real big deal
 
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