Run defense discussion (thread starting from 2020)

[sb1]

ahhhh....lol, thanks sb....will delete it then......having a rough Monday...

Then I'll delete mine too since it had your quote

 

[‘Mondre]

Can he stop the run?

Indirectly…

when he scores they have to abandon the run now that they’re down two, three scores…

 

[Steve102]

Indirectly…

when he scores they have to abandon the run now that they’re down two, three scores…

Sorry, man. You're never gonna sell me on that. They've managed 20 years for sustained excellence without a Chase type at WR. Spend money on shoring up the middle of the D and this team improves immensely.

 

[‘Mondre]

Sorry, man. You're never gonna sell me on that. They've managed 20 years for sustained excellence without a Chase type at WR. Spend money on shoring up the middle of the D and this team improves immensely.

Lol I agree just playing devils advocate.

I’m 1000% on board with that philosophy. BB made his name coaching the goat LB ppl forget. The deep passing game is a Cherry on top for him.

i say we shore up dline and lb, then the secondary and wrs fill in where you can and hope for a good trade or fa somewhere.

 

[Steve102]

Lol I agree just playing devils advocate.

I’m 1000% on board with that philosophy. BB made his name coaching the goat LB ppl forget. The deep passing game is a Cherry on top for him.

i say we shore up dline and lb, then the secondary and wrs fill in where you can and hope for a good trade or fa somewhere.

Cherry on top is a great analogy. I'd love for them to have a Chase type, but there's so many other holes that really prevent them from winning deep into the playoffs.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

No surprise. Called this out in preseason.
Godchaux and Bentley suck.
Gave up 270 rushing yards, then 225 rushing yards, and yesterday 195 rushing yards.
Godchaux sucks and Bentley is Monty Beisel / Gary Guyton

 

[slash83]

Cherry on top is a great analogy. I'd love for them to have a Chase type, but there's so many other holes that really prevent them from winning deep into the playoffs.

This team is fatally flawed on both sides of the ball. You can’t fix personnel issues this late in the season, and if you can’t scheme to hide those flaws, good luck…

 

[Steve102]

This team is fatally flawed on both sides of the ball. You can’t fix personnel issues this late in the season, and if you can’t scheme to hide those flaws, good luck…

Oh yeah, they ain't fixing chit at this point. Mask the holes and hope for the best. I am purely looking at the off season and what needs to be done going forward.

 

[slash83]

Oh yeah, they ain't fixing chit at this point. Mask the holes and hope for the best. I am purely looking at the off season and what needs to be done going forward.

Yeah lots of holes to fix, not sure what their cap space will be but regardless, they need to nail the draft again.

 

[p8ryts]

I thought wise has played good this season. Good pressure and batted passes.

HT, uche, wino seem invisible and recently van noy, Collins and Bentley.

Wise did play better than I thought he was capable of this season. At his best he is a JAG. I thought Van Noy was actually one of our best defenders the second half of the season. I don't understand the Wino snaps. At least he has non stop effort, but maybe that just puts him at the Wise level. I have to hope Perkins and McGrone and Bledsoe can contribute next year.

 

[Toofy]

Wise did play better than I thought he was capable of this season. At his best he is a JAG. I thought Van Noy was actually one of our best defenders the second half of the season. I don't understand the Wino snaps. At least he has non stop effort, but maybe that just puts him at the Wise level. I have to hope Perkins and McGrone and Bledsoe can contribute next year.

His contract is also okay. No great shakes. So value for money from wise .

Van Noy has had 3-4 great games, but else has been absent. Collins I am yet to see on any play. The one play he had yesterday was holding the leg of the runner and stopping on 3rd down.

But run defense is horrid. Johnson had 3-4 yards after contact on every single run.

 

[Scotty]

@Toofy.....I appreciate your points above but can someone just help me here...so where are the problems..is it the DLine or is it the LB's or just everything....something very wrong if 1 Miami player more or less gets the same yardage as 3 of our RB's in yesterdays game.

 

[p8ryts]

@Toofy.....I appreciate your points above but can someone just help me here...so where are the problems..is it the DLine or is it the LB's or just everything....something very wrong if 1 Miami player more or less gets the same yardage as 3 of our RB's in yesterdays game.

There were so many plays defenders were in position to make the play and took a bad angle, overran it, arm tackled. Bill deflects credit when they do good and says "the players make the plays".. This year to often they haven't. Did Guy take a step back this year? Was Godchaux an upgrade? The rest of the interior except for Barmore are JAG"s. Barmore was the one exception. I think the comparison of running back yardage yesterday is irrelevant. The run game was good enough. The passing game was not. Two bad plays by Jonesy, OL giving up sacks at inopportune time. The team was close all year but in reality was not representative of a good Patriot team because of the mistakes all year. Bad penalties, (what the hell was Judon thinking), Guy over Center, previous games, penalties when the other team has a 4th down, and special teams failures all year. That is not a BB team. It's inexplicable to me.

 

[nowayback]

Jordan Davis, Kiper has him at 26, should be there for us

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Sorry, man. You're never gonna sell me on that. They've managed 20 years for sustained excellence without a Chase type at WR. Spend money on shoring up the middle of the D and this team improves immensely.

Agree. Pass it to the open guy, don't force it to 1 guy. Team has 6 good pass catchers right now. Key is to solidify the OLine, fix Nose Tackle, Replace Bentley, Get another elite CB, and find McCourty's replacement in the off-season.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This!

I've watched this all season and got to see this in person yesterday.....Yikes!
Duke Freakin Johnson, who has averaged a whopping 5 carries per game over his forgettable 7 year career, steamrolled this sorry lot.

Patriots lose the LOS battles vs solid teams more often than not vs quality teams, it's almost a given now!

And don't get me started on the East-West speed of the slowing/aging/JAGgy LB corp

GM Bill has to address this in a major way this offseason because Coach Bill + Jr can't succeed with the existing parts

Godchaux SUCKS. Bentley SUCKS.

This is the main reason the Pats gave up 270 rushing yards, 225 rushing yards, and 195 rushing yards in different weeks.

The Dolphins had a crappy running game and still put up 195 rushing yards. Godchaux and Bentley are experts at giving up big runs and collecting high tackle numbers to pad their stats.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Jordan Davis, Kiper has him at 26, should be there for us

Chargers pick ahead of us and if they're smart they'll go NT first. I like the CB Ahmad Gardner, they need a better CB to play next to JC Jackson. No more of this soft zone crap from the last game, Pats D works best when it's press man-cover 1.

 

[sb1]

I think the problems stopping the run especially from RPO are a lot bigger than people realize. We don't have the right personnel to stop it and now it's manifested by a rookie QB and a meh passing offense that won't force teams to abandon the run if they attack us that way.

Run defense rankings in yards per rush allowed
2017 - 31st. Allowed 6 yards per rush in the Super Bowl
2018 - 29th
2019 - 14th but the Ravens, Nick Chubb, Joe Mixon and Derrick Henry showed they were a lot worse than this in reality.
2020 - 20th
2021 - 25th

Our run defense has been lousy for 5 straight years!

Bill isn't dumb he has to know that what he has out there isn't working. I know he hates it when his own teams can't stop the run so it's discouraging to think about this. Teams are now starting to run again in this league so it's not going to get easier. I don't know how easy this will be to fix in one offseason.

 

[Pats1971]

The biggest issue in 2002 was the lack of a real NT. We don't have one this year that is healthy. The run defense was excellent when Carl Davis was healthy. Davis, unfortunately, has a history of concussions and already has had 2 since joining the team.

The Patriots need a NT, a DE who can set the edge and a LB who can play from sideline to sideline. That is something that Hightower, Bentley, and Jennings can't do. Uche looks like he's got the athleticism to do so. But he needs to learn how to play that way. The Pats need another LB who can also play that way so that BB can continue to use Dugger as a Utility player.

The other thing that they need to do is stop playing ZONE defense. They have gotten burned by both the run and pass when they have switched to zone defense.

Maybe they should not have spent 80 mil on pass catchers because they were afraid after Brady left.

 

[Sciz]

.....I appreciate your points above but can someone just help me here...so where are the problems..is it the DLine or is it the LB's or just everything....something very wrong if 1 Miami player more or less gets the same yardage as 3 of our RB's in yesterdays game.

Both Lazar and the PFF grades specifically draw attention to the secondary. They really could have used Dugger in there. It wasn't a surprise to see D'Angelo Ross at slot corner, but he was also the third safety after Sean Davis got hurt on his first snap. Phillips does lots of good things in the running game, but there's a significant difference between him and Dugger in terms of taking on blockers, which is what the Dolphins forced him to do.

PFF says that Godchaux and Bentley had the two best run defense grades.