Rookies Report For Training Camp

[sb1]

Hypocritical logic… another sign of a low intellect.

What do you always say? Facts suck for you. Or something

 

[Wozzy]

You're trying to convince us that the 2019 and 2021 defenses were great because PoIntZ RanKing. I not only said that means little I demonstrated why. Not my problem you can't accept it. Anything to defend the wall I guess. Understandable. The last few years have been tough times for Team Bill having to watch Brady win a ring sans Bill in Tampa and Bill is no longer coaching in the league.

I said a defense that can't get stops when they need to is not a good defense.

So am I... it's interesting that thought popped in your head though.

It's ok you can admit it there's nothing wrong with that.

You’re a silly person. Go away…

 

[Wozzy]

What do you always say? Facts suck for you. Or something

The offense had to ball last, isn’t that why you called it a defensive failure, you got your facts wrong. You’re full of sht.

 

[sb1]

You’re a silly person. Go away…

Your logic not mine.

Fact: The 2019 and 2021 defenses were not great. Product of schedule. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Wozzy]

Your logic not mine.

Fact: The 2019 and 2021 defenses were not great. Product of schedule. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wrong.

 

[sb1]

Wrong.

Dont think so. Otherwise they would have been good against good teams and they haven't been.

 

[sb1]

The offense had to ball last, isn’t that why you called it a defensive failure, you got your facts wrong. You’re full of sht.

What else do you call a defense having a chance to win a championship with one stop TWICE and failing to get it done both times?

A special teams failure? Lol

 

[Wozzy]

What else do you call a defense having a chance to win a championship with one stop TWICE and failing to get it done both times?

A special teams failure? Lol

The offense had the ball last genius.

 

[upstater1]

No a defense that could get 3 and outs or at least get off the field on third down more often than not to get your generational QB on the field as much as possible was always my hope.

I never liked the theme of bend don't break. That's just a polite way of saying they're not very good.

Yes the greatest defenses ever were not very good.

Does that make sense to you?

Belichick is the greatest defensive mind of all time. The Patriots success was predicated on strangling the opposing team by making sure they didn't get any easy points, and then overloading the field when it shrunk. It was a fantastic strategy that worked 75% of the time.

It was the greatest strategy in NFL history, but you know better.

Dunning Krueger in effect

 

[upstater1]

You'd have a point if the defense didn't cough up the Super Bowl losing TD drive twice in two games to a very mediocre offense.

Defensive failure.

On the Tyree and Manningham plays, you give the opposing teams credit. As mediocre as that offense was, the QB escaped the pocket and threw up a ball with a miracle catch. On the Manningham lay, you could put that up there as one of the best throws/catches in NFL history. Top 10. Indefensible. It doesn't get better than that.

Just admit it, the offense crapped the bed in 2007. Not the defense.

 

[PatsfaninTx]

What's all this crap have to do with rookies reporting to camp? Take this crap elsewhere.

 

[rochrist]

Yes, could you two get a room.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I’m going to get us back on track by stating the my 2-year-old and I are ready for her first training camp practice.
(I never put full photos of her on the web but, trust me, she is adorable and totally psyched to be representing Team Bill)

#teambill4eva

 

[Dec54]

Yes, could you two get a room.

They just don't stop. It's quite tiring really

 

[PatsFan2]

Yes, could you two get a room.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

A) Sure except Gonzalez all but shutdown Tyreek last season. Gilmore shut down pretty much every WR he played. Top CB's like these often don't need help and do fairly well against the best of the best. A lot of these CB's or WR's success or failure is also determined by how well the defensive front is doing their job. I'd also add that the Rams put their CB1 Aqib Talib on Edelman in the Super Bowl and it was a mistake because it was a clear mismatch, while Talib might have been great against bigger WR's he didn't fair well against smaller quicker Edelman... and nobody is confusing Jules with a #1.

These words fail to make a point. Yes the bigger bodied Talib wasn't a great matchup for the smaller quicker Edleman. Idk why you felt the need to bring that up but yes it's generally not a good matchup when you have a size difference like that.

I could name more than a few wrs that have had their way with the likes of Ramsey, Alexander etc that doesn't mean they're not considered cb1's. Surtain didn't have a great year but no one would argue he's not in that tier of players. Just as the converse is true when it comes to positions. Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are HOF WR1's that got clamped down by Revis. It happens. And doesn't change the fact that those are in a separate tier.

So the fact that Gonzo got that better of Hill that day means nothing besides he won that battle.

Hill attracts cb1 and can beat bracket coverage from a cb2/saf. Hes universally considered a top 3 wr if not the best.

Again with respect, no point.

B) Many win and pile up stats against garbage teams and come back to earth against the great teams.

Just saying super general things. You can say this about so many positions and stats.

C) Describes every slot receiver here during the dynasty, who again nobody would argue were #1's.

Except 95% of wr1's are considered to be outside rec's. So you can exclude most slot-only wrs.

D) Describes many

"Wins consistently on the outside." Its not hard to connect the dots in terms of a blueprint for some criteria. Connect the dots and process of elimination will do a lot of the work for you. It's really not hard to define a WR1.

Why are the Pats and Chiefs the worst possible examples you can use?

This is pretty obvious and why some think you don't know what you're talking about.

It's easier to supplement when you have a goat QB, HC and other special players around you like Seymour, Jones, Gronk, Kelce etc

This isn't a hard one to figure out and has been explained. It's actually pretty simple. Mahomes makes up more a lot of things and you can get away with a lot more with that caliber of player.

Yeah, my posts are casual/uneducated... we just have to remove all the successful teams from the equation to make your point valid.

Cherry picking, sounds very educational...

Hey I'm just being honest. I'm not calling you names or going out my way to make fun of you. I have a hard time believing people are reading your post and thinking "wow that's really insightful stuff." You just say things, like above, with no real point.

 

[Wozzy]

These words fail to make a point. Yes the bigger bodied Talib wasn't a great matchup for the smaller quicker Edleman. Idk why you felt the need to bring that up but yes it's generally not a good matchup when you have a size difference like that.

I could name more than a few wrs that have had their way with the likes of Ramsey, Alexander etc that doesn't mean they're not considered cb1's. Surtain didn't have a great year but no one would argue he's not in that tier of players. Just as the converse is true when it comes to positions. Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are HOF WR1's that got clamped down by Revis. It happens. And doesn't change the fact that those are in a separate tier.

So the fact that Gonzo got that better of Hill that day means nothing besides he won that battle.

Hill attracts cb1 and can beat bracket coverage from a cb2/saf. Hes universally considered a top 3 wr if not the best.

Again with respect, no point.

The Dolphins traded four draft picks, and made Tyreek the highest paid WR in the league at that time. They also paid Jaylen Waddle a massive contract... so if "WR is the second most important position in football," when exactly do these dividends start paying off? They've been bounced in the wildcard round two years in a row with two of the best WR's in the NFL... never it seems.

Just saying super general things. You can say this about so many positions and stats.

You don't understand what I'm saying or disagree, so you accuse me of saying "general things." I'm not saying general things, I'm being very concise and specific.

Except 95% of wr1's are considered to be outside rec's. So you can exclude most slot-only wrs.

David Patten came from the arena league and was an UDFA. Stefon Diggs was a 5th rounder, so was Tyreek for that matter. Nico Collins, Cooper Kupp were taken in the third round, Amon-Ra St. Brown in the 4th. Good WR's can be drafted in any round.

You're not talking about drafting them though... you want to trade the house for them and then pay them top of the market salaries. The Dolphins are a great example of why this is foolish, the Eagles also did that, let some great defensive players walk and got worse. So far I don't see any examples of this method paying off in rings... do you?

"Wins consistently on the outside." Its not hard to connect the dots in terms of a blueprint for some criteria. Connect the dots and process of elimination will do a lot of the work for you. It's really not hard to define a WR1.

David Givens did that pretty well, he was a 7th round pick. Nico Collins does it and is the brightest young star at the position... third round. You want good WR's... draft and develop them. Don't overpay for merely "good."

This is pretty obvious and why some think you don't know what you're talking about.

It's easier to supplement when you have a goat QB, HC and other special players around you like Seymour, Jones, Gronk, Kelce etc

This isn't a hard one to figure out and has been explained. It's actually pretty simple. Mahomes makes up more a lot of things and you can get away with a lot more with that caliber of player.

Mahomes, Brady and every QB in history has looked like sht when their offensive lines have broken down and they had to run for their lives. Their magic disappeared.... I've figured out your problem, you equate "talent" solely to fantasy football positions and discount blocking, scheme and "team" entirely. You live by the opinion that when it comes to line play "anyone can do that job" and the term "talent" doesn't extend to those positions.

I get why some think you know what you're talking about... but again, there are no examples of teams who traded for some superweapon and went on to win a ring. If they did, it's only because they already possessed all the other elements you discount first.

Carson Wentz/Nick Foles are not some generational QB, they didn't have an array of super weapons... the star of that 2017 Eagle's team was offensive and defensive line play. They beat greatest QB in history while he was throwing for 505 yards, 3 TD's and had two super weapons on his side. Your assertion is categorically false.

Hey I'm just being honest. I'm not calling you names or going out my way to make fun of you. I have a hard time believing people are reading your post and thinking "wow that's really insightful stuff." You just say things, like above, with no real point.

You can be honest without hurling veiled insults, but I don't mind it. You can be honest, but it helps more to have some examples that prove your analysis and theories to be correct. "WR is the second most important position in football" is a silly hypothesis with zero evidence to support it. There isn't one position outside of QB that matters much more than other starting positions. I'd assert that once you've got the QB, building the offensive and defensive lines matter much more than anything else... the Chiefs have proven that two years in a row.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The Dolphins traded three first round picks, a third rounder, and made Tyreek the highest paid WR in the league at that time. They also paid Jaylen Waddle a massive contract... so if "WR is the second most important position in football," when exactly do these dividends start paying off? They've been bounced in the wildcard round two years in a row with two of the best WR's in the NFL... never it seems.

It's a team game. And pretending the Dolphins aren't winning bc of their 2-3 best players is laughable.

Also I could do the same with tackle. The 49ers haven't won the SB since the paid Williams. Bengals haven't won since the paid Brown.

I could do this all day. It's a dumb thing to say. It doesn't need explanation.

You don't understand what I'm saying or disagree, so you accuse me of saying "general things." I'm not saying general things, I'm being very concise and specific.

This is literally what you wrote ...
"Many win and pile up stats against garbage teams and come back to earth against the great teams."

You could say that about almost every position that collects stats.

David Patten came from the arena league and was an UDFA. Stefon Diggs was a 5th rounder, so was Tyreek for that matter. Nico Collins, Cooper Kupp were taken in the third round, Amon-Ra St. Brown in the 4th. Good WR's can be drafted in any round.

You're not talking about drafting them though... you want to trade the house for them and then pay them top of the market salaries. The Dolphins are a great example of why this is foolish, the Eagles also did that, let some great defensive players walk and got worse. So far I don't see any examples of this method paying off in rings... do you?

David Givens did that pretty well, he was a 7th round pick. Nico Collins does it and is the brightest young star at the position... third round. You want good WR's... draft and develop them. Don't overpay for merely "good."

You really dont think the "draft guy" of the site doesnt want to draft and develop wrs? Really??

Yes everyone wants to overpay for the position and give up assets they don't need to.

This is why you make no sense. It's like you're having a separate conversation. I can see why you're constantly going back & forth with multiple posters all the time and providing 0 insight or dropping any knowledge.

Btw I wasn't "hurling veiled insults" a you but rather speaking bluntly like a man. I apologize if you're sensitive about I didn't insult you. I know you're a Pats fan. I just don't think you're a good poster. Sorry that's life brother I hope you get over it.

 

[Wozzy]

It's a team game. And pretending the Dolphins aren't winning bc of their 2-3 best players is laughable.

It’s not “pretending” to factor contracts into the conversation in a sport with a hard cap. A top heavy team with lots of money invested in few, and little to share with the remaining 53 is often a factor. Saying Tyreek makes a lot of money without acknowledging the four draft picks it took to acquire him is disingenuous. There’s a salary cap… it exists.

Also I could do the same with tackle. The 49ers haven't won the SB since the paid Williams. Bengals haven't won since the paid Brown.

It takes five linemen and usually a solid 6th man… not just Trent Williams, You’ve also asserted after QB WR is the most important position in football… there’s not a lot of evidence to support it leads to playoff success… the only kind that matters.

I could do this all day. It's a dumb thing to say. It doesn't need explanation.

You really dont think the "draft guy" of the site doesnt want to draft and develop wrs? Really??

We’re all draft guys here, if you believe your own posts be patient, Polk or Baker could become as good as Aiyuk. He’s not bigger or more athletic.

Yes everyone wants to overpay for the position and give up assets they don't need to.

And yet Aiyuk is still a available…

This is why you make no sense. It's like you're having a separate conversation. I can see why you're constantly going back & forth with multiple posters all the time and providing 0 insight or dropping any knowledge.

Btw I wasn't "hurling veiled insults" a you but rather speaking bluntly like a man. I apologize if you're sensitive about I didn't insult you. I know you're a Pats fan. I just don't think you're a good poster. Sorry that's life brother I hope you get over it.

Just stop, insulting someone and saying you didn’t is worse than simply owning it.

When someone provides evidence to change my mind, I’ll admit I’m wrong, learn from it and move on.

There’s no evidence a #1 WR is necessary, a good varied WR room is more important.

 

[KCSVEN]

When someone provides evidence to change my mind, I’ll admit I’m wrong, learn from it and move on.

There’s no evidence a #1 WR is necessary, a good varied room is more important.

In conclusion, is an elite talent at wide receiver vital if you want to win? In terms of playoff contention, it does seem to be an indicator of a team's overall playoff chances. As for the Super Bowl, well, unless you have legendary talents at the quarterback position, or one of the greatest tight ends of all time, it seems that an elite receiver might be vital.

With nine of the top 10 in receiving yards making the playoffs in 2023, it seems to be a rather clear indicator that teams with elite receivers are more likely to make the playoffs

Is An Elite No.1 Receiver Crucial to Success in the NFL?

Here's why having an elite first option at wide receiver isn't entirely necessary to have success in the NFL—though it helps a lot.

www.givemesport.com