Rookies Report For Training Camp

[sb1]

Both teams had the same number of possessions, the Pats D forced more punts than the Giants D did.

Blaming possessions when your offense fails to create time consuming drives or score is more ballwashing by you.

You'd have a point if the defense didn't cough up the Super Bowl losing TD drive twice in two games to a very mediocre offense.

Defensive failure.

 

[sb1]

Do I think NOT giving up 7 is a bad thing?

Of course I don't.

You do?

There's no point in playing Brady at all if you're giving up big plays all the time. The greatest QB in NFL history can't overcome that.

Your strategy would be what, on defense?

Lay it out

No a defense that could get 3 and outs or at least get off the field on third down more often than not to get your generational QB on the field as much as possible was always my hope.

I never liked the theme of bend don't break. That's just a polite way of saying they're not very good.

 

[captain stone]

I’m agreeing. The defense made plays in the biggest moments.

Vs the Giants though not so much. 2007- helmet catch, A$ante had the pick and didn’t come down with it, Hobbs vs Plaxico. 21st ranked passing game in the league and turned the ball over a bunch. And the defense couldn’t get it done. 2011- gave up a bunch of yards to Nicks which is understandable but not stopping the run vs a team ranked dead last in the league running the ball- not so understandable.

Rodney & Stomper Meriweather also had chances at INTs during that drive, perhaps better ones even...

Don't forget Pierre Woods allowing a RB whom he/she out-weighed by 3 dozen pounds to take a fumbled football from him/her.

 

[Wozzy]

The defense coughed up the lead and allowed the game winning TD late in the 4th to Eli Manning and the worst run offense in the league. That fact stands.

Tom and the offense had the ball last in 2011 and failed… that fact stands.

If having the ball last is a barometer then Tom and offense failed… especially after scoring 14, 17 points and turning the ball over… a pathetic offensive showing.

It’s funny how you above all promote the notion that Tom was entirely responsible for winning, he was able to make every other aspect of the team better… except when they failed, then it was everybody else’s fault but Tom’s.

 

[Wozzy]

You'd have a point if the defense didn't cough up the Super Bowl losing TD drive twice in two games to a very mediocre offense.

Defensive failure.

Tom had the ball last in both games, in 2011 he had time on the clock. Offensive failure.

 

[Joey007]

Whoever said Polk will have a better rookie season than Terry Glenn needs to pump the brakes.

Terry Glenn had 90 for 1100+ yards. Passing inflation to put into context for today's game equals out to like 1300-1400 yards.

 

[PatsFan2]

Whoever said Polk will have a better rookie season than Terry Glenn needs to pump the brakes.

Terry Glenn had 90 for 1100+ yards. Passing inflation to put into context for today's game equals out to like 1300-1400 yards.

If we get 600 from from both him and Baker this year that's 1200yds success.

 

[Wozzy]

Whoever said Polk will have a better rookie season than Terry Glenn needs to pump the brakes.

Terry Glenn had 90 for 1100+ yards. Passing inflation to put into context for today's game equals out to like 1300-1400 yards.

I'm not sure Polk will have a better rookie season than Baker. Baker might have the bigger set of brass balls.

Rookies are fickle, both or one may suck, be average or be great... the draft is a crapshoot.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

nobody here can even describe the exact criteria for what makes a “#1.#1

It's not that hard if you think about it for a few seconds. You might not nail down every single aspect but it's really not hard.

In no order ...
A)does he attract & win against CB1 and / or bracket coverage
B)wins consistently- semi-consistently on the outside
C)has his qb's trust when things are tough (3rd down, high leverage spots)
D)effective, efficient and productive with what he's given in terms of snaps, targets

I could add a few others. There's no exact criteria but its not that hard if you think about it.

The need for a #1 receiver is a myth.




The overriding need for a superweapon is a myth. The Chiefs haven’t had one the last two years and won rings.

Some of those early NEP teams were as good as it gets overall when you factor in defense, ST and coaching. Those were great teams. KC has an all time great QB, HC and big slot/move TE. And some key defenders that played a big role in their success. Pointing to NE & KC are the worst possible examples you can use.

Yes, if you have excellence throughout your team in all phases. You'll be a real contender.

Also it's not hard to look at scoring, yards, passing etc to see the best have the best wrs in the league save Balty who has an MVP at QB.
Dallas, Miami, SF, Balty, Detroit, Buffalo, Phila, Rams, NO, Cleveland all have established WR1 and in most cases have a WR1B or very good wr2.

You're post are just very general and casual/uneducated.

 

[Wozzy]

It's not that hard if you think about it for a few seconds. You might not nail down every single aspect but it's really not hard.

In no order ...
A)does he attract & win against CB1 and / or bracket coverage
B)wins consistently- semi-consistently on the outside
C)has his qb's trust when things are tough (3rd down, high leverage spots)
D)effective, efficient and productive with what he's given in terms of snaps, targets

I could add a few others. There's no exact criteria but its not that hard if you think about it.

A) Sure except Gonzalez all but shutdown Tyreek last season. Gilmore shut down pretty much every WR he played. Top CB's like these often don't need help and do fairly well against the best of the best. A lot of these CB's or WR's success or failure is also determined by how well the defensive front is doing their job. I'd also add that the Rams put their CB1 Aqib Talib on Edelman in the Super Bowl and it was a mistake because it was a clear mismatch, while Talib might have been great against bigger WR's he didn't fair well against smaller quicker Edelman... and nobody is confusing Jules with a #1.

B) Many win and pile up stats against garbage teams and come back to earth against the great teams.

C) Describes every slot receiver here during the dynasty, who again nobody would argue were #1's.

D) Describes many

Some of those early NEP teams were as good as it gets overall when you factor in defense, ST and coaching. Those were great teams. KC has an all time great QB, HC and big slot/move TE. And some key defenders that played a big role in their success. Pointing to NE & KC are the worst possible examples you can use.

Why are the Pats and Chiefs the worst possible examples you can use?

Kelce had under 1000 yards, the lowest yards per reception of his career, 3rd lowest yards per game and TD's of his career last season. I think he's past the point of calling him a superweapon or a #1 WR... since he's a TE, this has never passed the BS meter anyway. Beyond that the Chiefs haven't had a #1 WR for the last two years. Tyreek hasn't gotten out of the wildcard round with Miami, so was he responsible for KC's success or not?

I also provided the Eagles in 2017 as an example of the best team in the league that had neither generational QB nor #1 WR, the star of that team was the offensive line and defense.

Yes, if you have excellence throughout your team in all phases. You'll be a real contender.

Also it's not hard to look at scoring, yards, passing etc to see the best have the best wrs in the league save Balty who has an MVP at QB.
Dallas, Miami, SF, Balty, Detroit, Buffalo, Phila, Rams, NO, Cleveland all have established WR1 and in most cases have a WR1B or very good wr2.

You're post are just very general and casual/uneducated.

Yeah, my posts are casual/uneducated... we just have to remove all the successful teams from the equation to make your point valid.

Cherry picking, sounds very educational...

 

[sb1]

Tom had the ball last in both games, in 2011 he had time on the clock. Offensive failure.

Not sure I follow. What does that have to do with the defense being given the lead late in the 4th quarter in 2 Super Bowls and coughing up that lead by surrendering TDs both times? That ain't an offensive failure I'm afraid.

 

[sb1]

B) Many win and pile up stats against garbage teams and come back to earth against the great teams

Interesting take cause you've insisted that PPG rankings mean everything in measuring a defense - and now you're basically telling us why they don't. Not every schedule benefits from playing garbage teams.

 

[Wozzy]

Interesting take cause you've insisted that PPG rankings mean everything in measuring a defense - and now you're basically telling us why they don't. Not every schedule benefits from playing garbage teams.

You don’t know wtf you’re talking about. Stop chasing me around like a jealous ex girlfriend.

 

[Wozzy]

Not sure I follow. What does that have to do with the defense being given the lead late in the 4th quarter in 2 Super Bowls and coughing up that lead by surrendering TDs both times? That ain't an offensive failure I'm afraid.

The offense had the ball last… offensive failure, especially when you add in the pathetic offensive and scoring display prior to that failure.

 

[sb1]

For every 1 team that can win with a mid QB and no clear #1 receiver like the 17 Eagles - there are hundreds that can't.

It's like picking another QB in the 6th round and expecting another Brady because it happened one time before. It's not a good reason to assume it will.

 

[sb1]

You don’t know wtf you’re talking about. Stop chasing me around like a jealous ex girlfriend.

Just using your own logic. I guess for a team like the 2019 or 2021 Pats with a top PPG ranked defense in the league thanks to a very easy schedule against a bunch of bad offenses but still couldn't hang with good offenses - you think that's an elite defense.

Just lol.

 

[sb1]

The offense had the ball last… offensive failure, especially when you add in the pathetic offensive and scoring display prior to that failure.

Couldn't be any more irrelevant to the defense getting not one but two chances to get a championship winning stop against a middling offense - and failing to get it done both times.

 

[Wozzy]

Just using your own logic. I guess for a team like the 2019 or 2021 Pats with a top PPG defense in the league playing a very easy schedule against a bunch of bad offenses and couldn't hang with good offenses - you think that's an elite defense.

Just lol.

You create “my logic” in your warped brain and say a bunch of sht I never said.

You said a defense that gave up the 4th fewest rushing yards and ranked #1 in the entire NFL in yards per rushing attempt despite playing one of the hardest schedules was bad at stopping the run.

I’ve diagnosed the problem, you’re not smart, you don’t know football. Stop chasing me around, I’m into chicks.

 

[Wozzy]

Couldn't be any more irrelevant to the defense getting not one but two chances to get a championship winning stop against a middling offense - and failing to get it done both times.

Hypocritical logic… another sign of a low intellect.

 

[sb1]

You create “my logic” in your warped brain and say a bunch of sht I never said.

You're trying to convince us that the 2019 and 2021 defenses were great because PoIntZ RanKing. I not only said that means little I demonstrated why. Not my problem you can't accept it. Anything to defend the wall I guess. Understandable. The last few years have been tough times for Team Bill having to watch Brady win a ring sans Bill in Tampa and Bill is no longer coaching in the league.

You said a defense that gave up the 4th fewest rushing yards and ranked #1 in the entire NFL in yards per rushing attempt despite playing one of the hardest schedules was bad at stopping the run.

I said a defense that can't get stops when they need to is not a good defense.

I’ve diagnosed the problem, you’re not smart, you don’t know football. Stop chasing me around, I’m into chicks.

So am I... it's interesting that thought popped in your head though.

It's ok you can admit it there's nothing wrong with that.