Rookie QB Led Offenses

[*ChungFu*]

We have two very good RBs. The line was better at run blocking than pass blocking by a decent margin. Mac had very few instances of hanging back with all the time he needed to make the bigger play. A #1WR won't change that by much.
Our line started the season like ****, peaked in the middle, and ended up somewhere in between.
When the ball is snapped the OC is a spectator. Did Josh keep the reins on Mac because of Mac, or did the offense limit his options and dictate the play? I was not and am not enamored with the personnel or coaching on our line. Less so now.
Build it up.

 

[stinkypete]

The inconsistency of the 2021 New England Patriots offense has already been discussed in other threads about the Pats offense. The general sentiment is that the offense was not as good as the team's overall statistical rankings.

Where I do see encouragement is how other recent rookie quarterbacks progressed in Year Two and beyond.



That's not to say that all young starting quarterbacks unconditionally progress, though in the case below he was injured most of 2021.

Baker Mayfield Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Baker Mayfield. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV
2018	23	CLE	QB	6	14	13	6-7-0	310	486	63.8	3725	27	5.6	14	2.9	171	71	7.7	7.5	12.0	266.1	93.7	51.2	25	173	4.9	6.95	6.77	3	4	10
2019	24	CLE	QB	6	16	16	6-10-0	317	534	59.4	3827	22	4.1	21	3.9	179	89	7.2	6.2	12.1	239.2	78.8	54.4	40	285	7	6.17	5.29	1	1	11
2020	25	CLE	QB	6	16	16	11-5-0	305	486	62.8	3563	26	5.3	8	1.6	188	75	7.3	7.7	11.7	222.7	95.9	65.5	26	162	5.1	6.64	6.96	2	2	14
2021	26	CLE	QB	6	14	14	6-8-0	253	418	60.5	3010	17	4.1	13	3.1	143	71	7.2	6.6	11.9	215.0	83.1	35.3	43	269	9.3	5.95	5.41			10

This brings up an encouraging point. There are very few examples that I can recall of a QB following up a big rookie season with a downward trajectory. Mayfield is the only one I can come up with.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We've seen glimpses of how good this offense can be. Just needs more consistency and less highs and lows, of course a few tweaks here and there in personell. We had 3 games where we averaged around 50 PPG. Sure they were bad opponents but these are still NFL teams and putting up 50 is a feat regardless. How many bad offenses have you seen do it 3 times in a season? Alot to be encouraged by here, and in addition to hopefully upgrading at WR you should already be seeing improvement out of Mac and hopefully Jonnu / Agholor as well as another year together for mostly a totally rebuilt offense at the skill positions.

 

[pazrul72]

I'm pretty sure Brady doesn't belong on any list questioning arm strength.

I do not understand people who act like Brady came out of the womb a perfect prospect that was the best QB of all time from the first time he laced up his cleats. It does a huge disservice to the many many many hours of work he put in honing his craft and getting the most out of the tools he was given. Even in his peak his arm was good enough, not a cannon, that did the job due to knowing when/where to go from A+ pre and post snap reads, with exceptional footwork and body torque. How many times did you hear people say he won with his brain not his arm? Here’s the scouting report that still gets him fired up 20 years later

Poor Build
Skinny
Lacks great physical structure and strength
Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush
Lacks a strong arm
Can’t drive the ball down field
Does not throw a really tight spiral
System type player who might get exposed if forced to adlib
Gets knocked down easy.

Thats just the one I found in 30 secs of googling I assure you there are 100 more especially from the first 5 years or so of Brady’s career that people called him a game manager, a dink and dunk guy, lucky to play on good teams. In the Brady 6 Mootch was talking about why the 9ers didn’t draft him and it was all about he did nothing to wow you with his arm. Now were they all wrong? Bet your ass they were he grew to easily be the GOAT but he did that thru time, hard work, and dedication not being physically gifted. Saying Brady’s arm strength was never questioned is flat out wrong and disrespectful to his incredible drive to be the best.

 

[crawhammer]

1. Poor Build
2. Skinny
3. Lacks great physical structure and strength
4. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush
5. Lacks a strong arm
6. Can’t drive the ball down field
7. Does not throw a really tight spiral
8. System type player who might get exposed if forced to adlib
9. Gets knocked down easy

That's funny, like most of that is wrong including 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9... all of which render 1 & 2 unimportant.

 

[pazrul72]

That's funny, like most of that is wrong including 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9... all of which render 1 & 2 unimportant.

I agree Brady proved most of that wrong but you are missing the point, Brady’s arm strength was questionable. He absolutely belongs on a list of great QBs who didn’t have the best arm strength.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree Brady proved most of that wrong but you are missing the point, Brady’s arm strength was questionable. He absolutely belongs on a list of great QBs who didn’t have the best arm strength.

He improved. Imagine that?

 

[pazrul72]

He improved. Imagine that?

Here comes Andy starting things that don’t need to be started. Of course he improved that was my entire point. Saying Brady doesn’t belong on the list of great QBs with not the strongest arm is disrespecting that improvement.

 

[Ring 6]

Here comes Andy starting things that don’t need to be started. Of course he improved that was my entire point. Saying Brady doesn’t belong on the list of great QBs with not the strongest arm is disrespecting that improvement.

He was talking about when Brady was drafted and his arm strength absolutely was questionable then.
As he developed his arm strength was fine.

 

[sb1]

Brady’s arm strength was always excellent. Accuracy downfield was an issue with his throws but it was corrected.

Mac’s arm is average not weak. If it was weak he wouldn’t be in the league at all. He’ll get better.

 

[Sicilian]

Brady’s arm strength was always excellent. Accuracy downfield was an issue with his throws but it was corrected.

Mac’s arm is average not weak. If it was weak he wouldn’t be in the league at all. He’ll get better.

I don't think this is accurate. It was always "good enough" for what they asked him to do. But it wasn't until a few years after his first as a starter that it really started to shine, because he kept working at it. 2001 Brady (which was his second year in a pro conditioning program) didn't have a cannon.

 

[sb1]

I don't think this is accurate. It was always "good enough" for what they asked him to do. But it wasn't until a few years after his first as a starter that it really started to shine, because he kept working at it. 2001 Brady (which was his second year in a pro conditioning program) didn't have a cannon.

Also remember he was drafted as a catcher to MLB - the one position where arm strength means a lot. The scouting report on him there was quite a bit different than it was in the NFL. He was looked at as an intriguing prospect with good arm strength. The only reason why he wasn’t drafted higher was there was doubt he would pursue a baseball career.

https://bleacher report.com/articles/2713141-before-the-goat-tom-brady-could-have-been-one-of-the-greatest-catchers-ever

"Whenever he would take an infield before a game, that's when they really took notice," Brady's high school baseball coach, Pete Jensen, a Seattle Mariners scout at the time, told the Globe & Mail's Rachel Brady in 2012. "Scouts would see him throw from behind the plate and say, 'Wow,' because he really had an outstanding arm."

I think any issues he had early in his Pats career throwing deep were technique related more than a problem with physical strength.

 

[crawhammer]

This brings up an encouraging point. There are very few examples that I can recall of a QB following up a big rookie season with a downward trajectory. Mayfield is the only one I can come up with.

RG3 and Vince Young... but flopped after their rookie seasons.

Mayfield was decent in his third season but he doesn't look like he's going to live up to the 1st overall pick.

It's extremely rare for a quarterback to get worse after a promising rookie season.

 

[moosekill]

Rg3 got injured though, so you can’t really include him. Vince Young relied more in his running, was never a great passer and won 8 games his rookie year, and was always about that.

 

[crawhammer]

Rg3 got injured though, so you can’t really include him. Vince Young relied more in his running, was never a great passer and won 8 games his rookie year, and was always about that.

A lot of quarterbacks have come back from an ACL. Griffin completely lost it. His rookie season blows away anything he's done since.

Regarding Young, I was mostly thinking about him as a running quarterback. Looking back at his passing stats, he actually had a few decent starts in '09 & '10. He was a load of a runner in his rookie season but he never got close to duplicating that.

 

[Sicilian]

Also remember he was drafted as a catcher to MLB - the one position where arm strength means a lot. The scouting report on him there was quite a bit different than it was in the NFL. He was looked at as an intriguing prospect with good arm strength. The only reason why he wasn’t drafted higher was there was doubt he would pursue a baseball career.

https://bleacher report.com/articles/2713141-before-the-goat-tom-brady-could-have-been-one-of-the-greatest-catchers-ever



I think any issues he had early in his Pats career throwing deep were technique related more than a problem with physical strength.

That's fair, but seems like a weird distinction. Technique is everything when it comes to arm strength. I don't think anyone was saying that he couldn't lift a can of beans, just that it didn't translate to on field zip in a functional way until he had a chance (and put in the work) to refine his throwing motion.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Rg3 got injured though, so you can’t really include him. Vince Young relied more in his running, was never a great passer and won 8 games his rookie year, and was always about that.

Vince Young is the exact opposite of Mac. He had a few borderline successful seasons before the bottom fell out because he did not have the mental fortitude to take the pressure of being an NFL QB and the scrutiny that comes with it. With the mental part of the game being his strength, Mac needs to improve things that are within his control to to take the next step. It will be fun to watch him develop over the next few years.

 

[upstater]

Is that all?? Seriously though, you forgot about replacing McDaniels, who probably had a bigger influence on Jones than anyone in year one.

I think the o-line was pretty good this season and their running game was very good. They had the second most rushing TDs in the league whereas they were 15th in passing TDs. They really need a dependable red zone wideout.


I'm pretty sure Brady doesn't belong on any list questioning arm strength.

Peyton only had issues with arm strength after his neck problems. After multiple surgeries, and some HGH, he was able to revive his career in Denver. Until his arm gave out for good during the '15 season.

Brees didn't have great arm strength but obviously still had an exceptional career (with a bigtime assist to Sean Payton).

I’m saying they didn’t have the strong arms of the people that get touted today, like Rodgers, Majomes, Herbert, Stafford, etc