Riley Cooper's new deal, and the effect on market price for Julian Edelman

[Deus Irae]

There are 13 rookie receivers who could go in the first 64 picks and they are better than every receiver last year (which is why Cooks is getting none of the hype Austin got).

Its not a matter of relying on rookies, its a matter of value.

No.... Under the scenario you mentioned, it's relying on rookies. That's pretty much definitional when you replace veterans with rookies.

 

[ripatsfan91]

No.... Under the scenario you mentioned, it's relying on rookies. That's pretty much definitional when you replace veterans with rookies.

They will be cheaper and have more potential, better long term. Value.

I imagine that WR, LB, and corners will all be buyer's markets. Deep WR class, LBs hitting free agency/cap casualties, and there are a ton of corners hitting the market Grimes, Verner, Talib, DRC, Shields, Vontae Davis, Captain, Tarrell Brown, Tillman

 

[supafly]

I look forward to teams relying on rookies for their WR needs. I think we all know what that's likely to mean for them.

I'm just not as confident as Kirwan and Clayton that there will be lots of teams stupid enough to actually do it.

I'm not quite as confident that there will be tons of teams doing this either, even if it's a deeper receiver class--although that could probably be argued at just about every position aside from QB/RB.

As we know, the odds are quite low of having a rookie WR producing enough to get you by in that first year. Those who select them often have other vets in place where they can still see a lot of production at the position by slowing blending the receiver in throughout the year. I don't feel that we currently have that luxury.

A team such as DEN replacing Decker for example, would be an excellent decision if they deem worthy, due to the fact that they have other capable receiving options. We do not in my opinion.

 

[ripatsfan91]

I'm not quite as confident that there will be tons of teams doing this either, even if it's a deeper receiver class--although that could probably be argued at just about every position aside from QB/RB.

As we know, the odds are quite low of having a rookie WR producing enough to get you by in that first year. Those who select them often have other vets in place where they can still see a lot of production at the position by slowing blending the receiver in throughout the year. I don't feel that we currently have that luxury.

A team such as DEN replacing Decker for example, would be an excellent decision if they deem worthy, due to the fact that they have other capable receiving options. We do not in my opinion.

So what do you suggest as an alternative to retaining Edelman? If we cant depend on rookie receivers.

Nicks? Britt? James Jones? Decker?

No other FA signing at receiver has shown the ability to step into our system and make an impact.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

No other FA signing at receiver has shown the ability to step into our system and make an impact.

Welker didn't make an impact? Moss didn't make an impact?

 

[ripatsfan91]

Welker didn't make an impact? Moss didn't make an impact?

Lets talk about recently: Joey Galloway, Chad, Brandon Lloyd

I don't have any faith that any receiver can step in and play immediately in our system. Who do you suggest we sign instead of JE?

 

[primetime]

So what do you suggest as an alternative to retaining Edelman? If we cant depend on rookie receivers.

Nicks? Britt? James Jones? Decker?

No other FA signing at receiver has shown the ability to step into our system and make an impact.

Nicks and Decker are substantially better players than Edelman (Jones is probably better as well) and magnitudes better (at this point in their respective careers) than any of the receivers quoted as being 'unable to step into the system' when they joined the Patriots like Lloyd, Ochocinco, or Galloway.

They're not Randy Moss, but Randy Moss is the second greatest receiver to ever play the game.

I also don't understand the revisionist history with Lloyd. Since when is 74 catches for almost 1000 yards on a team where he's the clear cut 4th option an indication of a player unable to play in a system?

 

[primetime]

Here is Borges' take:

Life of Riley for Edelman | Boston Herald

Hint: he sides against the team.

According to this thinking, Cooper's 5/25 pact is the floor not the ceiling. He quoted an agent who claimed that Edelman should be looking for a deal comparable to the 5/30 that Hartline received by stating "I don't see the Pats doing that, but some fool will."

I wonder how many here are going to lose their minds when they deem Belichick in idiot for letting both Welker and Edelman walk for more money?

Hartline's deal was closer to a 3 year deal worth about $4m a year, the years at the end are structured to make him either easy to release, restructure, or extend.

I sort of hate the way contracts are reported.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Nicks and Decker are substantially better players than Edelman (Jones is probably better as well) and magnitudes better (at this point in their respective careers) than any of the receivers quoted as being 'unable to step into the system' when they joined the Patriots like Lloyd, Ochocinco, or Galloway.

They're not Randy Moss, but Randy Moss is the second greatest receiver to ever play the game.

I also don't understand the revisionist history with Lloyd. Since when is 74 catches for almost 1000 yards on a team where he's the clear cut 4th option an indication of a player unable to play in a system?

Decker is not an option as he will have a substantially higher cap hit than JE, probably gonna get a contract that has 9M APY. Nicks is a better receiver, yet he hasn't done anything the past two years? He also hasn't been able to stay healthy ever in his career and will probably ask for a similar if not bigger contract than JE. Jones is meh. I don't think he is better than Edelman at this point.

There is a reason Lloyd was released after one season. He wasn't the clear cut 4th option. Gronk and Hernandez were never on the field at the same time that season. And if he was playing so well why did the team feel the need to sign Stallworth as well? He had one great game against the 49ers and that was pretty much it. He would always go to the ground and Brady and him didn't seem to be on the same page most of the time.

Edelman is the best option for the team right now.

 

[PatsFan2]

Decker is not an option as he will have a substantially higher cap hit than JE, probably gonna get a contract that has 9M APY. Nicks is a better receiver, yet he hasn't done anything the past two years? He also hasn't been able to stay healthy ever in his career and will probably ask for a similar if not bigger contract than JE. Jones is meh. I don't think he is better than Edelman at this point.

There is a reason Lloyd was released after one season. He wasn't the clear cut 4th option. Gronk and Hernandez were never on the field at the same time that season. And if he was playing so well why did the team feel the need to sign Stallworth as well? He had one great game against the 49ers and that was pretty much it. He would always go to the ground and Brady and him didn't seem to be on the same page most of the time.

Edelman is the best option for the team right now.

Don't sell Nick's short I think he would be a Beast in our Offense he's young and just going into his prime.

 

[primetime]

There is a reason Lloyd was released after one season. He wasn't the clear cut 4th option. Gronk and Hernandez were never on the field at the same time that season. And if he was playing so well why did the team feel the need to sign Stallworth as well? He had one great game against the 49ers and that was pretty much it. He would always go to the ground and Brady and him didn't seem to be on the same page most of the time.

Edelman is the best option for the team right now.

I don't disagree about Edelman, but I think you're overexaggerating the narrative that the Patriots offense is somehow anathema to most NFL receivers, and citing examples of two players who were at the tail ends of their career and one guy who actually performed much better in the offense than fans give him credit for for whatever reason. And Edelman, like Nicks, had never been able to stay healthy prior to this season, either.

I don't think Lloyd's release was a football decision. Stallworth was signed because the team lacked a downfield threat - Lloyd was never a deep threat and was never intended to be. He was exactly what he was supposed to be, an intermediate threat with size with limited potential after the catch. But 74 catches for nearly 1000 yards (when he was at least the clear cut 3rd option, if not the 4th) is an odd argument for him somehow being unable to learn the offense.

 

[Kontradiction]

Don't sell Nick's short I think he would be a Beast in our Offense he's young and just going into his prime.

I would love to see a healthy** Hakeem Nicks in this offense. He was my binky when he came out a few years ago.

** = The only thing that gives me the heebie jeebies is that he's had his fair share of injury concerns.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Nicks + drop issues + injury issues + terrible work ethic + lack of production + questionable attitude = DO NOT WANT.

I think Edelman is clearly the best option for the pats, but if not I think Golden Tate would be the first person I am calling.

 

[Kontradiction]

Nicks + drop issues + injury issues + terrible work ethic + lack of production + questionable attitude = DO NOT WANT.

I think Edelman is clearly the best option for the pats, but if not I think Golden Tate would be the first person I am calling.

James Jones would actually be the guy I would target. If I were to list FA WR's that I want in order, it would go like this...

1. James Jones
2. Jeremy Maclin
3. Hakeem Nicks
4. Emmanuel Sanders
5. Golden Tate
6. Jacoby Ford

Boldin supposedly wants to stay in San Fran but, if that changed, he would vault up to #1 on my list. I thought the team should have made a serious play for him when he left Arizona and went to Baltimore the first time. Wish they had. Not including Edelman on that list until we get a sense of what he'll be asking for. If he's asking for WR2-1 money, no thanks. Decker is not on that list because, from what I've read, he'll be looking for WR1 money when he's not a WR1.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Lets talk about recently: Joey Galloway, Chad, Brandon Lloyd

Statement that was presented was that no WR has "shown the ability to step into our system and make an impact". I countered that with Welker and Moss who have both made an impact. So I was addressing that incorrect statement.

And as far as Lloyd he didn't exactly fail the guy had almost 1000 yards.

Brandon Lloyd
Year- 2012
Reception - 74
Yards- 911
Average-12.3
Long -53
TD-4

Could he have done better? Sure, did he "immediately play in our system"? You be the judge.

I don't have any faith that any receiver can step in and play immediately in our system. Who do you suggest we sign instead of JE?

But if you have no faith does that mean we stop? How does that improve us? As far as Edelman there is no objection here if you want to keep him. But if you look at it as the team would, you have Edelman,Amendola,Boyce, TJ as players that occupy the same space. So the question becomes: Do you invest more $ there or do you go and invest it somewhere else perhaps a vertical WR or TE where you are a bit thin. That's what some of us think when we say Edelman is gone. Well that and the fact that he'll be going for the most $ as he should.

I dont suggest anything just giving you my perspective. As far as whom I would sign have already touched that topic in other threads/posts. But to summarize vertical WR( in free agency- aka Nicks, Maclin) and TE's( either 2 in the draft, or one FA( Chandler) and one in the draft CJ, ASJ, Niklas).

 

[ripatsfan91]

Statement that was presented was that no WR has "shown the ability to step into our system and make an impact". I countered that with Welker and Moss who have both made an impact. So I was addressing that incorrect statement.

And as far as Lloyd he didn't exactly fail the guy had almost 1000 yards.

Brandon Lloyd
Year- 2012
Reception - 74
Yards- 911
Average-12.3
Long -53
TD-4

Could he have done better? Sure, did he "immediately play in our system"? You be the judge.



But if you have no faith does that mean we stop? How does that improve us? As far as Edelman there is no objection here if you want to keep him. But if you look at it as the team would, you have Edelman,Amendola,Boyce, TJ as players that occupy the same space. So the question becomes: Do you invest more $ there or do you go and invest it somewhere else perhaps a vertical WR or TE where you are a bit thin. That's what some of us think when we say Edelman is gone. Well that and the fact that he'll be going for the most $ as he should.

I dont suggest anything just giving you my perspective. As far as whom I would sign have already touched that topic in other threads/posts. But to summarize vertical WR( in free agency- aka Nicks, Maclin) and TE's( either 2 in the draft, or one FA( Chandler) and one in the draft CJ, ASJ, Niklas).

Amendola hasn't shown he can stay healthy. Boyce can be a vertical threat he has legit 4.3 speed. TJ Moe isn't even guaranteed and probably won't make the 53 man roster. None of them have produced like Edelman and none have the same chemistry with Brady. Edelman has also proven that he can get good separation, pile up YAC, and beat double teams.

We have vertical threats in Dobson, Gronk, Boyce and Thompkins. Vertical passing game has not be one of Brady's strengths. Better to be a power run team with strong play action to get the ball downfield. I am an advocate of bringing back the two TE set with Gronk and Niklas and Dobson and Edelman. The other receivers will rotate through or play in 3 receiver sets.

I am a proponent for taking care of our guys: Talib, Edelman, Blount, DMAC, Gost, Fletcher and Svitek. Then building Oline, TE, and Dline through the draft. Maybe one outside free agent if we still have the money.

So what if by your plan we let Edelman walk this offseason. Danny Amendola gets hurt and misses significant time next season. Josh Boyce steps in but doesn't produce and at the end of 2014 season pats decide to release Amendola. Then we will be without both DA and Edelman because we thought we could count on DA. Edelman's contract should not be contingent on DA, he has proven to be a good receiver in his own right and the most valuable offensive player not named Tom Brady last season. We need to surround Brady with guys he trusts for the rest of his career and guys he has experience with. Not guys that we throw in for one year and are gone the next ala Lloyd and Ochocinco (Maclin and Nicks won't sign long term deals at their current value). Brady maybe only plays 4 more seasons and he doesn't have time to struggle with completely new players and get on the same page with them. We need to keep a core together; look how much the Pass D improved when there was continuity. Drew Brees Aaron Rodgers and Peyton don't nearly have the same type of roster turnover at the offensive skill positions that Brady deals with. Keep the same group of guys together and they will improve.

Closing thought: Adam Schefter is reporting that the salary cap is expected to be $133M for 2014 break $140M for 2015 and break $150M for 2016. With that increasing trend and a potential out in Amendola's contract after 2014, I don't see how we can't afford to keep JE especially at 5M.

 

[PatsFan2]

call me crazy but I think BB is going to value LeGarrette Blount more then Edelman.

Good RB's are a dime a dozen WR's aren't.

 

[mayoclinic]

Dennis Pitta re-signs with Baltimore:

Dennis Pitta, Baltimore Ravens agree to five-year deal - NFL.com

5 year deal, AAV $6-7M/year per ProFootballTalk.

 

[Deus Irae]

They will be cheaper and have more potential, better long term. Value.

I imagine that WR, LB, and corners will all be buyer's markets. Deep WR class, LBs hitting free agency/cap casualties, and there are a ton of corners hitting the market Grimes, Verner, Talib, DRC, Shields, Vontae Davis, Captain, Tarrell Brown, Tillman

Long term value is meaningless when I'm pointing out that I'd like teams to do this for this year. You were talking about looking to the rookies instead of the veterans. If 31 teams in the NFL would do that this year, the Patriots could probably go 15-1 or 16-0 and end up favored to win the SB by about 30 points.

And every year is a so-called "buyer's market" after the top players are off the board.

 

[ATippett56]

Jeremy Maclin - Philadelphia Eagles - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Eagles agreed to terms with WR Jeremy Maclin on a one-year, $5.5 million contract with a max value of $6 million.

It's a master stroke by the Eagles, keeping 25-year-old Maclin off the market where he surely would've been a hot commodity despite last year's ACL tear. Maclin is fully expected to be ready by training camp. Turning 26 in May, Maclin posted a 69-857-7 season in 2012 and will return to compete with Riley Cooper for No. 2 receiver duties in Chip Kelly's attack. The Eagles are highly run based and Maclin will struggle for consistent week-to-week targets, making him a borderline WR3 as it pertains to fantasy. In real-life football, Maclin's return combined with Cooper, Zach Ertz, and Nick Foles' ascension gives Kelly's offense a shot at being even more "multiple" and explosive than the 2013 version, which ranked No. 2 in the NFL in total yards and No. 4 in points scored.