Report: Mac was reaching out to other coaches about his frustrations with the offense

[Hades]

Because he had one good game against the browns. And had 187 yards and a TD against the Lions ..

Zappe went 17 for 21 against Detroit in a game that was run heavy in scheme being his first start, and considering the score he did all he was asked to, and more.

 

[captain stone]

You don't see him throw the ball right to someone like they were wearing the same jersey very often. Most of his picks are close throws where he didn't get quite enough on it, got hit as he was releasing it, or it went off the hands of a defender. He only had maybe a couple that I was like "For F's sake." He's usually pretty smart about it, which has been at least encouraging when you look at how he plays.

Of course we do.

Sunday was a good example. He didn't get enough on the one to Agholor, which they were clearly trying for a 50/50 throw like the one Agholor snatched away and scored on vs Pittsburgh. Mac just didn't get enough on it.

The one to Henry, that came on a 3rd-and-19 with 5 minutes left to go in the game. He threw it high where only Henry could get his hands on it but it sailed and went off his fingers.

The last one went of Harris' hands and was thrown a little behind him.

Yes, there were a couple of drops on ones that could have been, but overall, ball security is something he was really good about during the back half of the season. It doesn't feel like it in the moment but if you go back and look at those plays, that's been the key takeaway compared to other young QBs and, honestly, even some veterans.

Dude, you're making my argument for me... 'Preciate it.

 

[captain stone]

...I find saying either Mac or Zappe not having NFL arms is ludicrous.

Not really.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

When does Mac get his contract extension?

Brady got his after his 2nd season was complete. Brady went from a rookie deal worth a grand total of $864,000 to his new deal worth $30 million including a $10 million dollar signing bonus. That's a 1000% pay raise in guaranteed signing bonus cash alone.

Surely after year # 2 Mac deserves some sort of increase? 2021 Playoffs and Pro Bowl in his rookie year. 18 wins under his belt. Lock this franchise QB up now.

I get that you’re being sarcastic…. But they changed the rules since then, no player is allowed to sign a 2nd contract until after their 3rd season in the NFL is complete. So even if Mac was the second coming, the Pats could’t do anything about it now.

 

[Triumph]

I'm convinced we aren't watching the same games.

When Mac gets sacked because he did not throw the ball when the receiver was open. The OL is at fault

When Mac threw the ball to the Buffalo DB instead of Agahlor. Agahlor is at fault for not knocking ball out of the Bills DB hands. The risk of OPI was high, but still you're to blame.

When Mac has Parker open down the seam for a TD, but the ball hits Parker directly on top of his helmet. Parkers fault for not knowing that he was supposed to make a David Tyree catch only this time with his back to the ball.

On 3rd down or in the redzone, a play goes nowhere. Its the OC fault except if Zappe is playing because he is no good.

 

[RIpats88]

Zappe went 17 for 21 against Detroit in a game that was run heavy in scheme being his first start, and considering the score he did all he was asked to, and more.

No one is saying he didn't do all he was asked to do and more.

But to take that game and basically a 2 game stretch and then say he's better than Jimmy G and all the other ridiculous things some people on this board say Is over the top

Let's not conflate the two things. We have a small sample size. He performed his job well for 2 games. Let's see what he becomes.

But making over the top statements many of the "zappe hour!" Crowd tends to make I think is what turns alot of people off on this board.

 

[Ian]

You may be right, but I don’t see how this proves it. Two different plays were run in different games at different times of the game and in different situations.

This wasn't based on plays, situations, etc. Purely based on me finding two players making two throws with the same air-yard distance, tracking the release point to the ball getting to the target. And I had to find two throws where both also threw it on a line with velocity (it wasn't an arcing throw), so that was it. And it took me a while to find one for Zappe. He didn't make - or didn't need to make - very many of them where he had to throw one on a line any great distance.

 

[Ian]

Of course we do.

Honestly, I know you hate him, but go back through his interceptions this year. He hasn't had many throws where he threw it right to the wrong jersey with no Patriots player around him.

Dude, you're making my argument for me... 'Preciate it.

LOL, see above. Again, I know you don't like him, but given some of the play of other younger QBs or other veteran signal-callers who started around the league this season, trust me, it could absolutely be worse. Most of Mac's picks are typically close where the defender made a play, he didn't quite get enough on it, along with a few where he got hit as he let it go. He doesn't make a lot of "stupid" turnovers.

 

[archstanton543]

So, yeah. Mac was calling McDaniels during the season. Interesting.

Interesting, indeed.

 

[venecol]

This is what I mean when I say this zappe mania is ridiculous.

Zappe looked good in ONE GAME. But now he's even better than Jimmy who has lead a team to a Superbowl and played well in multiple NFL games. Because he had one good game against the browns. And had 187 yards and a TD against the Lions ..

Come on man, I did say that Jimmy is better looking.

It was a joke dude. sb1 got it.

 

[Ian]

Come on man, I did say that Jimmy is better looking.

It was a joke dude. sb1 got it.

 

[venecol]

I don’t have any problem with Jones reaching out to former coaches for advice on how to deal with the frustrations with the Patriots offense.

Most of us regular folks with regular jobs won't have a problem with it, but do you think Bill would?

 

[venecol]

This wasn't based on plays, situations, etc. Purely based on me finding two players making two throws with the same air-yard distance, tracking the release point to the ball getting to the target. And I had to find two throws where both also threw it on a line with velocity (it wasn't an arcing throw), so that was it. And it took me a while to find one for Zappe. He didn't make - or didn't need to make - very many of them where he had to throw one on a line any great distance.

That's fine Ian, we get it. You were trying to compare similar throws w/ same or similar distances to gage speed between them.

I was looking at ball velocity results for QBs in the combine going back to 2016. In almost every instance, their throws to the right (like Zappe's) were slower by 1 to 2 mph than to the left (like Mac's). So even there the two throws are not the same.

It's just that you then draw conclusions making it look like their speed is different because of one being a rookie and the other having gone through offseason w/outs instead of a disclaimer. Whatever.

 

[Wozzy]

23 pages based on an unsubstantiated rumor… okay.

Dumb rumors are simply that, dumb rumors.

What coaches was Mac talking to, total strangers, former Alabama Coaches?

Good grief…

 

[Ian]

That's fine Ian, we get it. You were trying to compare similar throws w/ same or similar distances to gage speed between them.

I was looking at ball velocity results for QBs in the combine going back to 2016. In almost every instance, their throws to the right (like Zappe's) were slower by 1 to 2 mph than to the left (like Mac's). So even there the two throws are not the same.

It's just that you then draw conclusions making it look like their speed is different because of one being a rookie and the other having gone through offseason w/outs instead of a disclaimer. Whatever.

I mean - you can see both guys clearly in both. It's pretty straightforward, and it just stemmed from the comments months ago where people claimed Zappe's arm was exponentially better. That wasn't/isn't the case. At least at this point in time.

However, one guy lifted through the entire offseason, had professional nutritionists help him, and worked with a professional throwing coach. One guy is a rookie and hasn't had any of that. Mac obviously got stronger from year one to year two. And the numbers weren't obviously that much different, even with that advantage.

The only point was, Mac has the edge there right now. Although I will say, having not noticed it before I did this, you shouldn't be happy with Bailey's arm angle, and I'm assuming he's going to work on that this offseason.

 

[archstanton543]

23 pages based on an unsubstantiated rumor… okay.

Dumb rumors are simply that, dumb rumors.

What coaches was Mac talking to, total strangers, former Alabama Coaches?

Good grief…

Now, now about half the thread is people arguing over who has the weaker arm Mac or Zappe.

 

[Ian]

Now, now about half the thread is people arguing over who has the weaker arm Mac or Zappe.

I would say by the time camp gets here, they'll probably be relatively even. Either way, I'm good with watching them both sling it. Again, there are worse problems to have than two capable young QBs on the roster.

 

[venecol]

Honestly, I know you hate him, but go back through his interceptions this year. He hasn't had many throws where he threw it right to the wrong jersey with no Patriots player around him.



LOL, see above. Again, I know you don't like him, but given some of the play of other younger QBs or other veteran signal-callers who started around the league this season, trust me, it could absolutely be worse. Most of Mac's picks are typically close where the defender made a play, he didn't quite get enough on it, along with a few where he got hit as he let it go. He doesn't make a lot of "stupid" turnovers.

I just don't understand why pointing out facts = being a hater.

That's a troubling trend on this forum. Saying that Mac is top 10 in worse INT% while being bottom 6 in TD% is just stating facts. That doesn't mean you are a hater, sorry.

I get that there were issues w/ OL, OC, etc. but they aren't unique to the Patriots. Scoring was down across the league. Herbert's numbers regressed dramatically and he had similar issues (worse OL, just as bad OC). There are others (Brady w/ OL injuries & poor play calling). No I'm not trying to compare Mac w/ Brady or Herbert. They are all NFL veteran QBs. You only get 1 shot at "rookie season." Mac played poorly. Brady played poorly. Those are facts despite whatever OL, OC issues they had.

 

[Ian]

I just don't understand why pointing out facts = being a hater.

It doesn't. But claiming something that isn't true because someone doesn't like a player makes them a "hater." In this case, I put together a visual due to the "haters" claiming Mac had a weaker arm. And the comments were that Zappe's was exponentially better. At this time, that's not the case.

That's a troubling trend on this forum. Saying that Mac is top 10 in worse INT% while being bottom 6 in TD% is just stating facts. That doesn't mean you are a hater, sorry.

And I agree, those are facts. So you're not hating at all, and you don't have to apologize.

 

[Ian]

I just don't understand why pointing out facts = being a hater.

That's a troubling trend on this forum. Saying that Mac is top 10 in worse INT% while being bottom 6 in TD% is just stating facts. That doesn't mean you are a hater, sorry.

Also, the post you were replying to wasn't about his numbers. It was about the fact he doesn't have many throws where he throws it right to the other team with no Patriots players even in the vicinity. We see other young guys and veterans in the NFL do that with an alarming amount of regularity. That's been the one bright spot you can say about Mac. Not a lot of galactically stupid turnovers. But he still needs to obviously be better.