Report: Mac was reaching out to other coaches about his frustrations with the offense

[captain stone]

I think Stidham has all the physical tools except what's upstairs, personally...

That's what usually separates them in the end anyway.

 

[captain stone]

That's a reasonable take. Not the takes I've seen that sound like they're hoping our starting QB fails. If our starting QB fails then so does our team.

Fearing - or, yes, even Knowing, based on recent history - that our starting QB will fail is NOT the same as Hoping he fails.

 

[TFB=GOAT]

Fearing - or, yes, even Knowing, based on recent history - that our starting QB will fail is NOT the same as Hoping he fails.

But the fearing or knowing the will qb fail in my opinion is due to incompetent coaching and offensive structure. For example receivers with absolutely no spacing, or running into each other, or running 15 yard routes on 3rd and 4.

 

[captain stone]

...As I mentioned, Mac doesn't come up with too many WTF moments, which is one of his strengths...

Surely you can't be serious.

 

[captain stone]

But the fearing or knowing the will qb fail in my opinion is due to incompetent coaching and offensive structure. For example receivers with absolutely no spacing, or running into each other, or running 15 yard routes on 3rd and 4.

Yep, all part of The Problem too.

 

[Ian]

When people who like Zappe are strawmanned as believing the team is keeping a "star" on the bench, we can't really have a proper discussion.

I don't think anyone - save for a few ridiculous people - have suggested Zappe is our lord and savior and a guaranteed future star. Several upon several have said they admired his poise, pocket presence, decision making, the timing and rhythm with which he operated the offense, and would like to see him get the opportunity to play more.

The lack of nuance in these discussions is really a shame. There's a legitimately interesting conversation to be had here but it's dominated by one-liners, potshots, and tribalism.

The other part of this that gets lost is the fact that at the end of the day, he's part of the team and is someone who everyone should still be rooting for. I've said repeatedly that Mac has the edge on him right now, but it's entirely possible that changes, especially with an entire offseason to work on the same self-improvement areas that Mac did last offseason. Brady wasn't great in 2000 but he took a giant step forward the next year and had been pushing Drew in camp. Obviously, we know what happened from there.

The disconnect - or at least this was my feeling - was that during the season the decision had been made, and it was what it was, all we could do was hope for Mac to play well. Complaining about them not making a move was counterproductive. Just like I don't want to get into threads about firing Bill this offseason, it's not happening.

So that was my take during the season, no point in having threads that essentially created additional animosity. They've invested a lot of time in Mac, so it made sense to see it through. And he did improve down the stretch, even though there's no convincing anyone of that. I've mentioned it in another post, but my biggest frustration was the people who every week kept dismissing the positives and focusing on the negatives. That's just not a lot of fun for anybody.

However, I know you're bothered by some other people's takes that were a little more extreme, which I completely understand. It doesn't - and shouldn't - have to be one or the other. He's part of the team, and it behooves all of us for him to also get better.

At the same time, this offseason, training camp, and preseason are going to be telling because if Zappe competes hard and shows a ton of promise, Mac's leash will definitely be shorter next season if he doesn't improve or falters. Especially since Bill can't afford to ignore it if Zappe does, indeed, push him and/or outperform him in practice. Bill absolutely has to win next year, which is probably the first time any of us have ever seen him really in that position.

Truthfully, he's lucky to have two good young quarterbacks. And honestly, it's a better position to be in than to, say, have Mac, Hoyer, and some practice squad guy. They obviously drafted Zappe for a reason, and we all have to hope he's successful because none of us know how things will go. If Mac turns it around and plays like the guy we saw in the first half of the Buffalo game all season, great. If he's not, at least there's someone who showed enough in relief this season that they may potentially have another answer. Not a lot of teams can say that.

In the end, we all want the same thing. We just want the team to get back into the mix. How they get there, I guess, is the question all of us have, and it will be something that will be interesting for us all to continue to follow this offseason.

 

[203Pat]

Mike Vick had a cannon for an arm. How did that work out?

So did Jeff George and a hundred other guys. What's your point?

 

[Ian]

Surely you can't be serious.

You don't see him throw the ball right to someone like they were wearing the same jersey very often. Most of his picks are close throws where he didn't get quite enough on it, got hit as he was releasing it, or it went off the hands of a defender. He only had maybe a couple that I was like "For F's sake." He's usually pretty smart about it, which has been at least encouraging when you look at how he plays.

Sunday was a good example. He didn't get enough on the one to Agholor, which they were clearly trying for a 50/50 throw like the one Agholor snatched away and scored on vs Pittsburgh. Mac just didn't get enough on it.

The one to Henry, that came on a 3rd-and-19 with 5 minutes left to go in the game. He threw it high where only Henry could get his hands on it but it sailed and went off his fingers.

The last one went of Harris' hands and was thrown a little behind him.

Yes, there were a couple of drops on ones that could have been, but overall, ball security is something he was really good about during the back half of the season. It doesn't feel like it in the moment but if you go back and look at those plays, that's been the key takeaway compared to other young QBs and, honestly, even some veterans.

 

[Ian]

I think the Mac vs Zappe arm debating is basically splitting hairs. I don’t think either one has a good arm and that is a big reason why Mac struggled. He doesn't have the physical tools to overcome this dysfunctional of an offense. He makes up for a lack of arm strength with timing and anticipation and there certainly wasn't much of that this season.

It's honestly a minor deal. Again, I pointed it out for the sake of letting people know Mac was stronger (and those were from months ago) than they thought and your last point was really the best one. He doesn't have the elite physical tools, he has to win with his head. But as I also said, Zappe will likely close the physical gap between the two this offseason, which will hopefully make things interesting next year and keep pushing the two to get better.

 

[h0c2000]

So did Jeff George and a hundred other guys. What's your point?

I should have been clearer. I was following up your point that arm strength is just one component in being a good QB. I find saying either Mac or Zappe not having NFL arms is ludicrous.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Bring me Jimmy in FA or give me death.

And don’t forget the 2nd QB they will need when he misses 2/3 of the season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It's honestly a minor deal. Again, I pointed it out for the sake of letting people know Mac was stronger (and those were from months ago) than they thought and your last point was really the best one. He doesn't have the elite physical tools, he has to win with his head. But as I also said, Zappe will likely close the physical gap between the two this offseason, which will hopefully make things interesting next year and keep pushing the two to get better.

I agree with this. I think Belichick is simply sending Jones the message that he is competing for the job, and in no way a lock for it, and I think that’s the right approach. Belichick and Patricia put Jones in a no win situation with the high school offense they ran this season, but Jones also played poorly for long stretches, and he didn’t make plays when they needed them the most. I would honestly be fine with them spending a high pick on another QB prospect if they see one they believe can be one a franchise QB. The more competition the better.

 

[Triumph]

When does Mac get his contract extension?

Brady got his after his 2nd season was complete. Brady went from a rookie deal worth a grand total of $864,000 to his new deal worth $30 million including a $10 million dollar signing bonus. That's a 1000% pay raise in guaranteed signing bonus cash alone.

Surely after year # 2 Mac deserves some sort of increase? 2021 Playoffs and Pro Bowl in his rookie year. 18 wins under his belt. Lock this franchise QB up now.

 

[RIpats88]

Zappe >>> JG, but dreamy Jimmy is better looking.

This is what I mean when I say this zappe mania is ridiculous.

Zappe looked good in ONE GAME. But now he's even better than Jimmy who has lead a team to a Superbowl and played well in multiple NFL games. Because he had one good game against the browns. And had 187 yards and a TD against the Lions ..

 

[TomPatriot]

It's not. Did a comparison on that:

Mac:


Zappe:


Mac has the stronger arm, at least at this point in time.

Although, again, as I said previously, it's not a 100% fair comparison. Mac had an entire offseason to get stronger, which Zappe didn't have being a rookie. He'll have that now, so we'll see if things change when we see him again in training camp.

You may be right, but I don’t see how this proves it. Two different plays were run in different games at different times of the game and in different situations.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I don’t have any problem with Jones reaching out to former coaches for advice on how to deal with the frustrations with the Patriots offense.

 

[sb1]

This is what I mean when I say this zappe mania is ridiculous.

Zappe looked good in ONE GAME. But now he's even better than Jimmy who has lead a team to a Superbowl and played well in multiple NFL games. Because he had one good game against the browns. And had 187 yards and a TD against the Lions ..

Also helped by the Lions going 0-6 on 4th down.

Yes he was good vs Browns even if he had 3 scoring drives start in Browns territory and 2 of them start in the red zone. He had a 61 QBR. That’s a good number.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I don’t have any problem with Jones reaching out to former coaches for advice on how to deal with the frustrations with the Patriots offense.

Agreed. This whole thing is noise, including BB being mad that he went outside of the family. If nothing else it forced BB to get more involved and talk to Mac about how to handle the situation. Clearly Mac's demeanor was improved the last few games, someone got to him in a constructive way.

 

[Calhoun44]

Forgive me for not reading this whole thread, just catching up now. Did anyone confirm which coaches that Mac has reached out to? The thread title implies that Mac is reaching out to multiple coaches, and I didn't see anything other than speculation. But like I said, I didn't dig through the whole thread. Thanks

 

[Ross12]

Forgive me for not reading this whole thread, just catching up now. Did anyone confirm which coaches that Mac has reached out to? The thread title implies that Mac is reaching out to multiple coaches, and I didn't see anything other than speculation. But like I said, I didn't dig through the whole thread. Thanks

Unfortunately we don't know and probably won't know. All we can do is speculate but it's pretty safe to assume they were folks Bill is connected to because Bill found out.

One theory I found interesting is that he reached out to Bill O'Brien, which makes some sense since he may have felt that was "safe" since O'Brien is not in the NFL and was a former Patriots coordinator and someone he worked with for a brief time. But O'Brien probably felt that was weird and told BB "dude, your boy is calling me for offensive tips, who knows who else he's calling?"