Ravens QBs & Mobility in General

[everlong]

The entire NFL universe seems to be in love with all the mobile QBs. I don't disagree that having a mobile QB is a great weapon but if that QB cannot develop into a pocket passer there's a ceiling to how good they can be and there's a time clock on their career. I'm not talking about Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young type. They were both superior passers. I'm not even talking about an Alex Smith who wasn't nearly as good as those two but developed and could run in the right circumstance.

To different degrees Michael Vick, Ben Rothleisberger and especially Cam Newton paid the price as time went on with the beating they took. Yes Ben played into his late 30's but he hasn't been the same player in a long time, he did become a pocket passer and you can see the physical decay which is going to affect him down the road. I know people will point out Russell Wilson but he's a moderately effective pocker passer and he has an uncanny ability for not getting lit up when he scrambles. Maybe this season is an anomoly but he's been in a mini decline for a few years. For all his trade demands I'd trade him. I think the wheels are coming off.

In today's game guys like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert and Burrow can run which bails their teams out. When Buffalo is calling QB draws against inferior teams in the first quarter half of me laughs as a Pats fan and the other head shakes my head. They're taking time off of the career of their franchise player. I have no problem with a designed scramble in a key spot but I'd keep it to that. Burrow although nowhere as mobile as the others will take off in key spots. I think Mahomes has taken it back a notch and only does it in spots where he knows he won't take the hits. LAC manages Herbert fairly effectively in this regard.

So then we have Jackson vs Huntley. Jackson is an athletic freak. He's also going to want Josh Allen or Dak Prescott money coming up soon. Would you pay it? I wouldn't. Huntley already looks better in the pocket and while not the freak Jackson is he is mobile. Jackson at 30+ or Huntley at 2M? I'd trade Jackson while he value is still somewhat high for as much draft capital as I can, take the difference in salary and load up everywhere else and I think you come out ahead.

Do I think the Ravens will do this? Not a chance. Jackson sells tickets and merchandise. I think the Ravens fans would lose their minds, yes we can debate their existence, if they traded Jackson.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Assuming Jackson isn't starting to fall apart physically, he will get paid a lot of money for the same reason Michael Vick got paid the record setting contract with the Falcons. Teams pay players based on what the ROI is and not whether they are worth it towards the cap.

 

[Ring 6]

The entire NFL universe seems to be in love with all the mobile QBs. I don't disagree that having a mobile QB is a great weapon but if that QB cannot develop into a pocket passer there's a ceiling to how good they can be and there's a time clock on their career. I'm not talking about Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young type. They were both superior passers. I'm not even talking about an Alex Smith who wasn't nearly as good as those two but developed and could run in the right circumstance.

To different degrees Michael Vick, Ben Rothleisberger and especially Cam Newton paid the price as time went on with the beating they took. Yes Ben played into his late 30's but he hasn't been the same player in a long time, he did become a pocket passer and you can see the physical decay which is going to affect him down the road. I know people will point out Russell Wilson but he's a moderately effective pocker passer and he has an uncanny ability for not getting lit up when he scrambles. Maybe this season is an anomoly but he's been in a mini decline for a few years. For all his trade demands I'd trade him. I think the wheels are coming off.

In today's game guys like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert and Burrow can run which bails their teams out. When Buffalo is calling QB draws against inferior teams in the first quarter half of me laughs as a Pats fan and the other head shakes my head. They're taking time off of the career of their franchise player. I have no problem with a designed scramble in a key spot but I'd keep it to that. Burrow although nowhere as mobile as the others will take off in key spots. I think Mahomes has taken it back a notch and only does it in spots where he knows he won't take the hits. LAC manages Herbert fairly effectively in this regard.

So then we have Jackson vs Huntley. Jackson is an athletic freak. He's also going to want Josh Allen or Dak Prescott money coming up soon. Would you pay it? I wouldn't. Huntley already looks better in the pocket and while not the freak Jackson is he is mobile. Jackson at 30+ or Huntley at 2M? I'd trade Jackson while he value is still somewhat high for as much draft capital as I can, take the difference in salary and load up everywhere else and I think you come out ahead.

Do I think the Ravens will do this? Not a chance. Jackson sells tickets and merchandise. I think the Ravens fans would lose their minds, yes we can debate their existence, if they traded Jackson.

Many good points, however, I don’t think Huntley is proving it should be his job. They are 0-4 since Jackson went down.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Many good points, however, I don’t think Huntley is proving it should be his job. They are 0-4 since Jackson went down.

This point is hardly on Huntley only, they have dozens of importan players injured and they almost beat the packers and rams who many people see as top NFC contenders

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

If your QB can occasionally extend a play with his legs or get a first down that's great. If that's their number one or number two skill you probably aren't winning many playoff games. Even someone like Mahomes has been figured out. Take away the deep pass and contain him on the ground. Force him to throw the checkdown and intermediate pass. More often than not he will refuse. With no elite RB to worry about him running around and heaving is good for the defense.

 

[BelichicksHoodie]

Many good points, however, I don’t think Huntley is proving it should be his job. They are 0-4 since Jackson went down.

Harbaugh threw away half of those games away with boneheaded fourth down and and 2 point conversion attempts even though he had the goat kicker.

 

[Ring 6]

This point is hardly on Huntley only, they have dozens of importan players injured and they almost beat the packers and rams who many people see as top NFC contenders

The point is you don’t move on from your QB because he got hurt and you found his replacement during a 4 game losing streak. I doubt the Ravens believe they lose those 4 with their starter instead of an inexperience backup.

 

[‘Mondre]

Great points. Baltimore is in a tough spot.

i would definitely look at all the options.

 

[Ring 6]

Harbaugh threw away half of those games away with boneheaded fourth down and and 2 point conversion attempts even though he had the goat kicker.

How many of those games do they win if their starter is playing. FYI it was only one of those 4, we went for 2 vs Pitt with Jackson.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Jackson is as good and probably more consistent than Josh Allen as a passer. Huntley, lol c'mon man


I know people don't like him but let's at least be accurate.

I doubt there's a QB in the league that accounts for as much offense as Jackson does for Baltimore. All the while playing behind a mediocre to banged up OL and bottom 5-10 group of targets.

He was MVP worthy and posted a near 4/1 TD to INT ratio passing to Willie Snead & Hollywood Brown for Christ sake. Followed up the next year with 26/9. Again throwing to a bottom 5 group.

I'm investing in Jackson the way Cleveland did for Baker, Buffalo did for Allen and Arizona did for Murray. Give him a Diggs or Hopkins. A Kirk, Beasley or Davis etc and he's a consistent 30 + TD -10 INT, 65% QB.

I wrote about this in my thread but Cleveland has a big decision to make as well with Baker. Lamar for all his critics has actually looks like a top 5-10 QB at times, dragged his team to the playoffs multiple years and elevates the crappy talent around him. Cleveland went all in on Baker multiple years now. Has a top 5 OL and running back room and look like a 8 win team.

 

[Hyped]

Harbaugh threw away half of those games away with boneheaded fourth down and and 2 point conversion attempts even though he had the goat kicker.

Baltimore would love to have those PAT's right about now...they would probably be 1-1 in those OT games and in the playoffs...SMH!

Ditto with McDermott....had he kicked a FG vs. the Titans...maybe the Bills have a BYE.

Wild season....

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

The point is you don’t move on from your QB because he got hurt and you found his replacement during a 4 game losing streak. I doubt the Ravens believe they lose those 4 with their starter instead of an inexperience backup.

My point was not keeping Huntley over Jackson, I would not do that , my point was about the ravens still almost beat good teams with their backup and it was certainly not the fault of the backup qb they lost this games. He wasn't perfect but he was solid for a backup

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Jackson is as good and probably more consistent than Josh Allen as a passer. Huntley, lol c'mon man
View attachment 39656

I know people don't like him but let's at least be accurate.

I doubt there's a QB in the league that accounts for as much offense as Jackson does for Baltimore. All the while playing behind a mediocre to banged up OL and bottom 5-10 group of targets.

He was MVP worthy and posted a near 4/1 TD to INT ratio passing to Willie Snead & Hollywood Brown for Christ sake. Followed up the next year with 26/9. Again throwing to a bottom 5 group.

I'm investing in Jackson the way Cleveland did for Baker, Buffalo did for Allen and Arizona did for Murray. Give him a Diggs or Hopkins. A Kirk, Beasley or Davis etc and he's a consistent 30 + TD -10 INT, 65% QB.

I wrote about this in my thread but Cleveland has a big decision to make as well with Baker. Lamar for all his critics has actually looks like a top 5-10 QB at times, dragged his team to the playoffs multiple years and elevates the crappy talent around him. Cleveland went all in on Baker multiple years now. Has a top 5 OL and running back room and look like a 8 win team.

Mayfield is not a QB who will get you far in the Playoffs. The Browns need a new qb imo or all the additions won't worth sh*t with mayfield.

I agree with your take and view of Jackson. I just can't stand him or the ravens at all

 

[everlong]

Jackson is as good and probably more consistent than Josh Allen as a passer. Huntley, lol c'mon man
View attachment 39656

I know people don't like him but let's at least be accurate.

I doubt there's a QB in the league that accounts for as much offense as Jackson does for Baltimore. All the while playing behind a mediocre to banged up OL and bottom 5-10 group of targets.

He was MVP worthy and posted a near 4/1 TD to INT ratio passing to Willie Snead & Hollywood Brown for Christ sake. Followed up the next year with 26/9. Again throwing to a bottom 5 group.

I'm investing in Jackson the way Cleveland did for Baker, Buffalo did for Allen and Arizona did for Murray. Give him a Diggs or Hopkins. A Kirk, Beasley or Davis etc and he's a consistent 30 + TD -10 INT, 65% QB.

I wrote about this in my thread but Cleveland has a big decision to make as well with Baker. Lamar for all his critics has actually looks like a top 5-10 QB at times, dragged his team to the playoffs multiple years and elevates the crappy talent around him. Cleveland went all in on Baker multiple years now. Has a top 5 OL and running back room and look like a 8 win team.

I don't dislike Jackson. I wish he played for a different franchise because I do hate the Ravens.

I wouldn't pay Baker.

Lamar is a top 5-10 quarterback right now when healthy. However if he has to stay in the pocket he's not. Most of his completion are some type of rolout or RPO. Once those physical skills decline and teams don't have to defend his running abilities as much where does that leave him if he doesn't improve as a pocket passer? Can he stay healthy? All the mediots keeps saying stop trying to turn him into a pocket passer. This is dead wrong. They should do everything they can to turn him into a pocket passer and use him as a runner when you need it most to keep tread on the tires.

BTW I wouldn't dismiss Huntley. He only has a few starts and has a higher complettion percentage throwing to the same cast Jackson has been. Mark Andrews is no slouch. He might be the best TE in the game right now. If you have to pay Jackson 35M/year can you afford to go out and fill the skill positions with real skill? Vs pay Huntley 2M and give him all the weapons.

 

[Hyped]

Comments;

a.) Agree that Jackson is a top 10 QB at worst. He affects the game and stresses the defense sideline-to-sideline.

b.) BUT paying Jackson 40M a year or whatever top of the market $$$ is....that will hold the Ravens back for years, IMO. Will they be able to field an elite D, good OL, good RB's, and etc... with Jackson taking up ~20% of the cap once his salary starts kicking in along with the pro-rated bonus amortization?

c.) Say the Ravens go with Huntley, sell off Jackson for two firsts (there are teams like Miami and Philly who can do that this off-season...and compared to Watson...no PR blow back), take two rookies in the first round, and load up in free agency with what they would have paid Jackson.... are you telling me that they wouldn't be as competitive or better than they are right now?

d.) Jackson has been in the league for 4 years now....he's only 25...meaning he's about 5 years away from his peak age of 30...and will be needing his 3rd contract by then. Kid is gonna cash out 2X before his speed slows down, IMO....anyone trading for/signing Lamar will have him for 10 years MAX and two massive contracts, IMO.

 

[oldrover]

Mayfield is not a QB who will get you far in the Playoffs.

He’s Kirk Cousins… maybe not even.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I would not trade Jackson.
Top 10 QB are hard to find and develop, if you have on resign him. There are ways to still be competitive and surround him with solid players even if the qb gets 40 Mio.
Teams who have a good roster but mediocre qb will hardly win anything. Look at Cleveland they improved their team signed Free Agents and drafted well but they are not in the Playoffs.
QB is the most valuable postion and you shouldn't screw that up and think you can win with your backup. A mediocre qb can hold the team and all the additions back.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

He’s Kirk Cousins… maybe not even.

if some people say Jones ceiling is Ryan/Cousins than Mayfield is below that. Cousins actually produces numbers which many don't have on their radar.

Kirk Cousins Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Kirk Cousins. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[farn]

Until Jackson proves otherwise, he is an injury prone running QB who’s never lead his team very far in the playoffs.

Fans get enamoured. Why ? Flashy plays that defy logic ? I mean, sure, that is exciting but I want my team to win. Not make a sports centre top 10.

You can and HAVE won with Mahomes. He is a guy I’d want. He is a much better passer than Jackson and even in the loss last year, he had a spectacular SB while playing hurt.

 

[Deus Irae]

Lamar is a top 5-10 quarterback right now when healthy.

Is he really, though? That sets up an interesting question.


Brady
Mahomes
Rodgers
Burrow
Watson
Allen
Herbert
Carr
Prescott
Cousins
Ryan
Murray
Wilson
Stafford


Leaving Jackson out of it, and leaving out all the rookies in order to minimize the projection arguments, the above are the best in the NFL right now, in no particular order. How many of that 14 are worse than Jackson, as a QB?