QB Performance - Coaching Matters

[TomPatriot]

Which coach taught Mac not to throw to a wide open receiver and instead throw it to the flat in front of 2 defenders? Was that Patricia in his ear during the play? Enough with these excuses.

He wasn't doing much of that last year or when Sarkisian coached him. Why now?

And how do you know that isn't his first read or, more likely, his only read?

 

[Ian]

There is hardly change comparing 2020 to 2022.

Career high in completion percentage and career low in interceptions.

Yes, Ian coaching matters. John Elway did not win a ring until the right coach showed up in Mike Shanahan. But, Elway always had real talent and ability.

This is obviously another good example, albeit Elway was Elway and you could make the argument - and others have - that Terrell Davis was also the difference. Elway finally didn't have to do it all on his own.

 

[ashley]

A good, healthy O-line will also go a long way in improving Mac's performance!!!!

 

[BTTA]

SMH at internet forum tough guys who want a 24 year old to turn in to a heroic leader and rise above stunning dysfunction and disconnection in the coaching staff and deliver greatness. Brady at 24 would have sucked under this leadership, too. Like 'Merica always does, avoid the systemic, complicated, difficult work to be done and lay the problem at the feet of individuals.

 

[venecol]

LOL, that's all you got? He completed 13 passes out of 31. He was 5-of-16 in the second half. It was an absolutely terrible outing.

I get you hate him, but a rational person would still look at this year and have a "WTF" thought. I've never witnessed a team ruin a rookie, and I never thought I'd actually have to watch it live considering how this year has gone.

Lol, I don't hate Mac. I just don't think he's the guy, regardless of coaching. Neither is the other Jones. Giants won't go far in the playoffs (1 & done). First chance Daboll gets, he'll dump him. We need to seriously start looking at options or be stuck in another Harry/Wynn scenario.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

This seems to have meandered into an “either/or” argument where EITHER the offensive coaching this year has been awful and lead to player regression (at many positions), confusion, and seemingly poor player buy-in

OR

We have a 2nd year QB who has shown that when things go poorly, he freaks out a bit and starts “seeing ghosts” ala Sam Darnold and misses open reads, quits on plays, and os wildly emotion and inconsistent….but also was pretty darned good under more stable leadership if unspectacular.


Honestly, I think both things can be simultaneously true.

The offensive staff would likely look better with an in-his-prime TB12 to provide the leadership they seem incapable of…AND Mac Jones would likely look much better in year 2 had Josh stayed.

It was just a match absolutely made in hell, BB made the mess and it may have cost us a promising young QB because he seems to be beyond spooked now.

I have no clue how this gets fixed, but I have no interest in watching more of it until something gives.

 

[Triumph]

Career high in completion percentage and career low in interceptions.

62.5% compared to 66%

Isnt that an improvement of 3.5 more completions over 100 attempts?

Yes, 6 fewer INTs. Fewer passing yards, fewer 1st downs and fewer passes over 20 yards.

This is obviously another good example, albeit Elway was Elway and you could make the argument - and others have - that Terrell Davis was also the difference. Elway finally didn't have to do it all on his own.

Denver finally had a balanced offense, but Elway did his job in the passing game.

 

[MrTibbs]

Which coach taught Mac not to throw to a wide open receiver and instead throw it to the flat in front of 2 defenders? Was that Patricia in his ear during the play? Enough with these excuses.

I saw that during the broadcast, why isn't anyone talking about it? I figured maybe he was ineligible from running out of bounds or something. What the heck???

 

[venecol]

I don't want to split hairs but Jones was decent in 2019 as well....which also coincides when he had a 100% healthy Sasqan Barkley.

I think Daboll is also one of those good positional, offensive coaches. However in 2019 when it was Daboll/Allen and Allen was 20/9. In 2020 It was Daboll/Allen/Diggs and he exploded.

I don't think that many people realize how much Allen improved in his 2nd season, before Diggs, over his rookie one. The increase in his stats was dramatic. Allen was never viewed as an NFL ready QB and it showed, but his raw talent and athleticism improved his performance once he got those first 20 games in.

We're witnessing the opposite with Mac. His lack of raw talent and athleticism has outweighed his positives (decision making). He just can't make those tight window throws with enough zip that are needed when facing NFL caliber DBs. I believe he's lost confidence. Sure, the coaching situation hasn't helped at all, but to attribute 90% blame on them for his regression is just nonsense. We saw the beggining of this at the end of last season, when there weren't these excuses. Teams just don't fear him and it shows. On top of that, his theatrics are out of control. He's too emotional.

 

[FCB02062]

Jones was garbage yesterday, for certain....BUT if you look at every statistic, metric, etc, the Patriots offense has gotten considerably worse this year vs last year (they're even worse in some statistics than the Cam Newton year!). yards/attempt, touchdowns, passing touchdowns, passing yards, wide receiver receptions/yards, tight end receptions/yards - you name it - Bill Belichick completely torpedoed the 2022 offense when he named Matt Patricia de facto OC. Coach Bill and his minions pride themselves in Coach Bill putting his team/players in the "best position" to be be successful. I just don't see that at all with this offense with Patricia and his bumbling buddy Joe Judge.
You cannot argue facts and the facts are the Belichick/Patricia offense took a MASSIVE step back this year. After 2021 all they had to do was NOTHING and we'd probably be 8-6 with a legit playoff hope. Instead we have a dumpster fire offense that bottom third in the nfl in just about every category.
Here's something folks might not know - the 2022 New England Patriots LEAD THE LEAGUE in starting field position. Yup, the Belichick/Patricia offense, on average, starts their drives with the shortest distance in the NFL to score a touchdown....yet they're a bottom three touchdown scoring offense....I think Bill and the entire staff must be axed. But we know that'll never happen, so Kraft needs to get rid off everyone and keep Bill if he must. hire someone to do an executive search and hire the best young innovative offensive staff he can...tell Bill if he doesn't like it, too bad, you're fired.

 

[RIpats88]

It's not rocket science to see.

Mac Jones with McDaniels broke rookie records and had 22 tds to 10interceptions. This year he fell off a cliff.

Now if you believe everything happens in a vacuum and zappe is that guy!!

Somehow Mac forgot how to play...or he has a buffoon as a coach learning on the fly with a brand new offense. Maybe he's not that guy. But I don't see how anyone can watch last year. Then this year and make the determination that this regression is all on him and not coaching staff.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think that many people realize how much Allen improved in his 2nd season, before Diggs, over his rookie one. The increase in his stats was dramatic. Allen was never viewed as an NFL ready QB and it showed, but his raw talent and athleticism improved his performance once he got those first 20 games in.

Agree. Allen did improve in Year 2. He was as raw as raw can be and to Ian's point Daboll absolutely played a role in that. I don't think they would have made the trade w/ MN to land Diggs if they didn't think Allen was ready on a number of levels to maximize Diggs' skillset.

We're witnessing the opposite with Mac. His lack of raw talent and athleticism has outweighed his positives (decision making). He just can't make those tight window throws with enough zip that are needed when facing NFL caliber DBs. I believe he's lost confidence. Sure, the coaching situation hasn't helped at all, but to attribute 90% blame on them for his regression is just nonsense. We saw the beggining of this at the end of last season, when there weren't these excuses. Teams just don't fear him and it shows.

He was way too inexperienced to be asked to run a different offense with different philosophies from an novice coach. There is no way that can be dismissed as a contributing factor to Mac's regression. That was a major miscalculation on BBs part.

On top of that, his theatrics are out of control. He's too emotional.

He is.

 

[venecol]

Agree. Allen did improve in Year 2. He was as raw as raw can be and to Ian's point Daboll absolutely played a role in that. I don't think they would have made the trade w/ MN to land Diggs if they didn't think Allen was ready on a number of levels to maximize Diggs' skillset.

He was way too inexperienced to be asked to run a different offense with different philosophies from an novice coach. There is no way that can be dismissed as a contributing factor to Mac's regression. That was a major miscalculation on BBs part.

He is.

What do you think Giants do w/ Jones after declining his 5th year option? He's having an OK season, though average at best in the rankings.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

What do you think Giants do w/ Jones after declining his 5th year option? He's having an OK season, though average at best in the rankings.

Daboll will get rid of him the first chance he gets

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

A smart person once said and im butchering this a little ...
"Coaching matters when the margins are extremely thin. Coaching can put you over the top but if your talent leaves such a gap between you and the next team. Even the greatest coaching in the world isn't going to get you to the playoffs."

Coaching absolutely matters but you could have Gruden, McVay and Payton back there. With no OL your offense is DOA. Specifically both tackles, good luck. Mac doesn't handle pressure well which doesn't help. And we're clearly lacking a #1 target. We've played some terrible defenses and I can't remember any of our guys taking over or doing anything really that makes you say "wow."

There's a coaching upgrade to be had but the offense had several players that regressed, didn't take a step forward and needs some real talent at key positions.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What do you think Giants do w/ Jones after declining his 5th year option? He's having an OK season, though average at best in the rankings.

No idea. Gotta think Daboll wants an upgrade as DJ is not worth the option.

 

[RIpats88]

A smart person once said and im butchering this a little ...
"Coaching matters when the margins are extremely thin. Coaching can put you over the top but if your talent leaves such a gap between you and the next team. Even the greatest coaching in the world isn't going to get you to the playoffs."

Coaching absolutely matters but you could have Gruden, McVay and Payton back there. With no OL your offense is DOA. Specifically both tackles, good luck. Mac doesn't handle pressure well which doesn't help. And we're clearly lacking a #1 target. We've played some terrible defenses and I can't remember any of our guys taking over or doing anything really that makes you say "wow."

There's a coaching upgrade to be had but the offense had several players that regressed, didn't take a step forward and needs some real talent at key positions.

I agree, but at the same time all the players regressed and the OL play kinda goes hand in hand with coaching.

McDaniels might not be a great head coach. But he is a good Offensive coordinator. And it showed last year. The fact that this year's offense is as bad as the cam newton offense with more offensive talent is an indictment on the offensive coaching. I have to think if McDaniels was here instead of Patricia running the same offense we have for years this team and Mac would look miles better.

I do agree about a #1 though. Look at the eagles/dolphins. Both their QBs were on the downswing before they got new shiny Wide receivers.

 

[SVN]

i actually like mac jones. i think the player we saw last yr is what he can be .he has been screwed by the coaching changes. having said that, as a leader of the team , your job is to sulk ,complain and then accept and go to work. if you constantly demonstrate to the sideline after every -ve play or penalty when you yourself arent playing great, you will lose any +ve creds you got.
i keep going back to the 2006 season. For those of you old enough to remmeber,pats traded away branch and brady sulked on the sidelines and there was a national debate about his body language. But after few weeks he settled in and made it work the best he can with the players around him. he mustve have complained internally but never i saw him do this yaking mac jones does. he was frustrated but never showed up the coaches or sideline everytime . i really hope he gets that out of his head.
Its classic do your job thing. If he doesnt miss open throws or ensures everyone is set before the snap then he has some right to get frustrated but right now he cant execute what is called and blames someone else for what is called.

 

[crawhammer]

Just noting that Daniel Jones, who isn't exactly a star QB has seen a notable improvement with a better coach:



I know a lot of people say players win games, coaches don't - and while true - coaches do matter and can make/break a QB.

Daniels Jones wasn't bad his rookie season, in fact he had four outstanding games. He had an awful head coach in Pat Shurmur that season. Arguably he had an even worse head coach in Joe Judge for his 2nd and 3rd seasons when he played poorly. He's better this season with Daboll but they're a run heavy offense... 5th in rush attempts and 27th in pass attempts. DJ's job in Daboll's offense is don't screw up. The one game he surpassed 300 yards, he also had 2 picks and they lost in a blowout to Detroit. In 9 starts he has less than 200 yards passing. DJ is contributing to the running game, having his best season there, with 583 yards, 5.6 Y/A and 5 TDs. He also leads the NFL with a INT% of 1.0% so he's fulfilling that requirement.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Daniels Jones wasn't bad his rookie season, in fact he had four outstanding games. He had an awful head coach in Pat Shurmur that season. Arguably he had an even worse head coach in Joe Judge for his 2nd and 3rd seasons when he played poorly. He's better this season with Daboll but they're a run heavy offense... 5th in rush attempts and 27th in pass attempts. DJ's job in Daboll's offense is don't screw up. The one game he surpassed 300 yards, he also had 2 picks and they lost in a blowout to Detroit. In 9 starts he has less than 200 yards passing. DJ is contributing to the running game, having his best season there, with 583 yards, 5.6 Y/A and 5 TDs. He also leads the NFL with a INT% of 1.0% so he's fulfilling that requirement.

giants have no WR talent whatsoever. tight end also mediocre