Project 2027

[Wozzy]

"Tank" on purpose implies that if the team wanted to play really well they could, but they're choosing not to.

This is ridiculous... there aren't great players on the bench being hidden so they can get a better draft pick. There aren't All Pro offensive tackles being held back so Wolf can get a higher draft pick, and they aren't going to tell players not to try too hard. I don't think you people suggesting "tank" understand just how dumb this conspiracy theory is.

You want to build a winning culture, it starts by teaching young players how to win and play like winners. You play to win, you might not win... but it won't be for a lack of trying. Good grief...

 

[Triumph]

This is what I see after reading most of @TheRainMaker posts. And I’m here for it. Makes these threads enjoyable to read.

Rainmaker always has objective solid takes about what's going on with this team.

 

[Triumph]

Well, I ain't gonna read that whole thread (after reading the other one), but the misery index is downright inspirational (if you're Michael Felger).

I'm a Patriots fan. Nothing I've seen this off-season changes that.

Let me clarify my homerism up front: I WAS a Red Sox fan since 1967 and shared many great memories with my Tony Conigliaro-Rico Petrocelli- loving Italian Dad. I had season tickets for a few years - third deck, second row, halfway between home and third, Pavillion CLub. I watched them win the World Series at Fenway...was there for Papi's righteous rant on the Saturday after the Marathon Bombing. I have a bat he signed for me, unexpectedly, after I had met him at a birthday party for one of his teammates (with whom I was working).

John Henry has made me not like the Red Sox. I don't watch them. I don't care. They have a lot of young talent, BUT if they won't spend on prime pitching, they're going nowhere. They're playing for hype and mediocrity. They're aspirations are to become the Tampa Rays. Whoodeefreakingdoo.

I don't see that with the Patriots, and disagree with the analysis presented here. They went after Ridley and Aiyuk hard - and I wasn't sorry they came up short at this time because both were overpaid. Ridley is an unreliable head case and Aiyuk has been blessed with one of the best Offensive coaches in the league and surrounded by Deebo, Kittle, McCaffery...he's not a number 1, but he's being paid like one.

Free Agency SUCKED this year because of the huge cap increase. So I liked that the Pats locked up their own like Dugger, Rham, Onwenu, Godchaux. I'd add Bourne, but...

I like a lot of the kids on this team - including Douglas, Polk, Baker, Boutte, and Reagor.
I like Sow and hope Strange can come back to form.
I like Gonzo and Austin. Keion White will be a wrecking ball out there. We need Barmore back.

I don't consider this year 5 of a rebuild. Mac Jones fell apart - not all of it his fault, but he ain't it, period. Even Ring 6 (IIRC) argued that the Pats were a .500 team last year and chasing a playoff spot with merely mediocre QB play, which they didn't get.

Nothing works without that piece. Is Maye it? Don't know. We'll see.

The biggest difference now is that Mayo is going to let the kids play (maybe other than Maye) and see what he's got. They should hit Free Agency next year knowing which of the 5 WRs need replacing, for example. They need a Center (soon). They need a force at Left Tackle yesterday - this is the biggest frustrsation right now. THese guys are really hard to find.

But if they get those two pieces in the off-season, FA or Draft, and Strange comes back, are you going to tell me that LT Stud-Strange-Center Stud-Sow-Onwenu is a bad line? I have faith that they'll get there, but winning in the NFL is still dependent on health, schedule, and many other factors. Kraft won't cheap out once the core is set.

If he does, I'll put them in my Red Sox category. Until then, I've got the Celtics, and I'l watch to see how this team moves forward.

We are now the NY Jets of the AFCE.

Looking for a QB. Looking for a HC. Looking for a GM.

I expect nothing but uncertainty as we figure out if the Pats have found any of the 3 major components for NFL success.

 

[BTTA]

"Tank" on purpose implies that if the team wanted to play really well they could, but they're choosing not to.

This is ridiculous... there aren't great players on the bench being hidden so they can get a better draft pick. There aren't All Pro offensive tackles being held back so Wolf can get a higher draft pick, and they aren't going to tell players not to try too hard. I don't think you people suggesting "tank" understand just how dumb this conspiracy theory is.

You want to build a winning culture, it starts by teaching young players how to win and play like winners. You play to win, you might not win... but it won't be for a lack of trying. Good grief...

Plus, every player and coach who is asked, or instructed, to reduce the quality of their contribution will have their career eroded by the sacrificed year. Nobody in their right mind will do that.

The only way a team can "tank" is if resources are withdrawn so the team is less capable. And that, as you point out, takes a team culture backwards.

 

[Wozzy]

Plus, every player and coach who is asked, or instructed, to reduce the quality of their contribution will have their career eroded by the sacrificed year. Nobody in their right mind will do that.

The only way a team can "tank" is if resources are withdrawn so the team is less capable. And that, as you point out, takes a team culture backwards.

Agreed, moreover every team believes they have a shot to compete at this time of the year. Nobody is throwing in the towel before one game has been played.

“Tank” is what loser teams do at the end of the season when all is lost. Even then you’re not tanking as much as evaluating your team for next season.

You play to win.

 

[NE_Zealot]

Glad I saw the entire Brady/BB era. For all we know we could be entering a Lions/Browns phase of sucking for 50+ years. The Dolphins won back to back super bowls and haven’t been back since 1973.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You just gave me inspiration for my next avatar.

Perfect

 

[maust]

Glad I saw the entire Brady/BB era. For all we know we could be entering a Lions/Browns phase of sucking for 50+ years. The Dolphins won back to back super bowls and haven’t been back since 1973.

The Dollyphins haven't won since '73 but they made it back twice in a 3 year span in the early 80's. The Jete on the other hand, now that's some serious AFCE suckitude.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Well, I ain't gonna read that whole thread (after reading the other one), but the misery index is downright inspirational (if you're Michael Felger).

I'm a Patriots fan. Nothing I've seen this off-season changes that.

Let me clarify my homerism up front: I WAS a Red Sox fan since 1967 and shared many great memories with my Tony Conigliaro-Rico Petrocelli- loving Italian Dad. I had season tickets for a few years - third deck, second row, halfway between home and third, Pavillion CLub. I watched them win the World Series at Fenway...was there for Papi's righteous rant on the Saturday after the Marathon Bombing. I have a bat he signed for me, unexpectedly, after I had met him at a birthday party for one of his teammates (with whom I was working).

John Henry has made me not like the Red Sox. I don't watch them. I don't care. They have a lot of young talent, BUT if they won't spend on prime pitching, they're going nowhere. They're playing for hype and mediocrity. They're aspirations are to become the Tampa Rays. Whoodeefreakingdoo.

I don't see that with the Patriots, and disagree with the analysis presented here. They went after Ridley and Aiyuk hard - and I wasn't sorry they came up short at this time because both were overpaid. Ridley is an unreliable head case and Aiyuk has been blessed with one of the best Offensive coaches in the league and surrounded by Deebo, Kittle, McCaffery...he's not a number 1, but he's being paid like one.

Free Agency SUCKED this year because of the huge cap increase. So I liked that the Pats locked up their own like Dugger, Rham, Onwenu, Godchaux. I'd add Bourne, but...

I like a lot of the kids on this team - including Douglas, Polk, Baker, Boutte, and Reagor.
I like Sow and hope Strange can come back to form.
I like Gonzo and Austin. Keion White will be a wrecking ball out there. We need Barmore back.

I don't consider this year 5 of a rebuild. Mac Jones fell apart - not all of it his fault, but he ain't it, period. Even Ring 6 (IIRC) argued that the Pats were a .500 team last year and chasing a playoff spot with merely mediocre QB play, which they didn't get.

Nothing works without that piece. Is Maye it? Don't know. We'll see.

The biggest difference now is that Mayo is going to let the kids play (maybe other than Maye) and see what he's got. They should hit Free Agency next year knowing which of the 5 WRs need replacing, for example. They need a Center (soon). They need a force at Left Tackle yesterday - this is the biggest frustrsation right now. THese guys are really hard to find.

But if they get those two pieces in the off-season, FA or Draft, and Strange comes back, are you going to tell me that LT Stud-Strange-Center Stud-Sow-Onwenu is a bad line? I have faith that they'll get there, but winning in the NFL is still dependent on health, schedule, and many other factors. Kraft won't cheap out once the core is set.

If he does, I'll put them in my Red Sox category. Until then, I've got the Celtics, and I'l watch to see how this team moves forward.

Agree 100%

 

[Ian]

There were dozens of free agents better than what we will field. And if Judon would make us better.

I've left this alone, but you still won't tell us who they should have signed ("all of them") and keep reposting the new figure following the Judon trade. Again, for someone who normally prefers others to offer details in these situations, the fact you remain vague here is a little surprising. You just keep pointing to the money they didn't spend just for the sake of spending it and harping on "Kraft is cheap." I feel like there's more context, which you don't seem to want to take into consideration.

Just for the heck of it, I dug out who New England signed during Belichick's first offseason ahead of the 2000 season:



Aside from Bjornson and Williams, I wouldn't say that was a banner group, but again, I get it. Belichick wasn't considered a big name and the Patriots weren't considered to be much of a threat, which didn't really make them an attractive destination. So they ended up extending some of their core guys, similar to what they did this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I would have also preferred they landed the handful of impact players available this offseason. At the same time, I get why guys spurned them. It's disappointing, but I understand the issue. Back in March, they had a no-name coach, nobody other than Stevenson of note on the roster on offense, and Jacoby Brissett and Mac Jones at quarterback. For guys who like to put up big numbers to boost their own values, as well as hoping for postseason incentives, that doesn't exactly instill confidence. I mean, Belichick had Bledsoe and even he had a tough time that offeason.

Meanwhile, if Belichick had moved Judon, it would have been considered a smart decision to get something rather than see him walk for nothing, and a vote of confidence for Keion White or others would also have been better received.

I'm assuming you would also have praised him for the fact they got a third-round pick they can potentially parlay into a higher-round pick to maybe target another tackle next April. The fact they got a pick that high, to me, is still sort of amazing, given that he's a 32-year-old player. Yes, I get that it doesn't help them this season, but I think most of us have accepted the fact that playing in February was/is unlikely. I'm hoping for a competitive group in 2024 and growth, with the hope that 2025 will see them take more of a step forward and possibly make noise in the conference and maybe even get into the postseason.

 

[maust]

Well, I ain't gonna read that whole thread (after reading the other one), but the misery index is downright inspirational (if you're Michael Felger).

I'm a Patriots fan. Nothing I've seen this off-season changes that.

Let me clarify my homerism up front: I WAS a Red Sox fan since 1967 and shared many great memories with my Tony Conigliaro-Rico Petrocelli- loving Italian Dad. I had season tickets for a few years - third deck, second row, halfway between home and third, Pavillion CLub. I watched them win the World Series at Fenway...was there for Papi's righteous rant on the Saturday after the Marathon Bombing. I have a bat he signed for me, unexpectedly, after I had met him at a birthday party for one of his teammates (with whom I was working).

John Henry has made me not like the Red Sox. I don't watch them. I don't care. They have a lot of young talent, BUT if they won't spend on prime pitching, they're going nowhere. They're playing for hype and mediocrity. They're aspirations are to become the Tampa Rays. Whoodeefreakingdoo.

I don't see that with the Patriots, and disagree with the analysis presented here. They went after Ridley and Aiyuk hard - and I wasn't sorry they came up short at this time because both were overpaid. Ridley is an unreliable head case and Aiyuk has been blessed with one of the best Offensive coaches in the league and surrounded by Deebo, Kittle, McCaffery...he's not a number 1, but he's being paid like one.

Free Agency SUCKED this year because of the huge cap increase. So I liked that the Pats locked up their own like Dugger, Rham, Onwenu, Godchaux. I'd add Bourne, but...

I like a lot of the kids on this team - including Douglas, Polk, Baker, Boutte, and Reagor.
I like Sow and hope Strange can come back to form.
I like Gonzo and Austin. Keion White will be a wrecking ball out there. We need Barmore back.

I don't consider this year 5 of a rebuild. Mac Jones fell apart - not all of it his fault, but he ain't it, period. Even Ring 6 (IIRC) argued that the Pats were a .500 team last year and chasing a playoff spot with merely mediocre QB play, which they didn't get.

Nothing works without that piece. Is Maye it? Don't know. We'll see.

The biggest difference now is that Mayo is going to let the kids play (maybe other than Maye) and see what he's got. They should hit Free Agency next year knowing which of the 5 WRs need replacing, for example. They need a Center (soon). They need a force at Left Tackle yesterday - this is the biggest frustrsation right now. THese guys are really hard to find.

But if they get those two pieces in the off-season, FA or Draft, and Strange comes back, are you going to tell me that LT Stud-Strange-Center Stud-Sow-Onwenu is a bad line? I have faith that they'll get there, but winning in the NFL is still dependent on health, schedule, and many other factors. Kraft won't cheap out once the core is set.

If he does, I'll put them in my Red Sox category. Until then, I've got the Celtics, and I'l watch to see how this team moves forward.

I think you've nicely summed up where most of us are at. I'm genuinely interested in the rebuild and culture change, I look forward to watching it progress. Unlike where we were with Kiam, seeing no real path forward, I know Kraft (unlike Henry & Werner) cares about winning.

All the whining is unseemly considering the 20 year stretch we were blessed with.
Rome wasn't built in a day but it bears keeping in mind it was burnt down in one.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

this is more scarier than the donalds project ‘25

 

[Ring 6]

I've left this alone, but you still won't tell us who they should have signed ("all of them") and keep reposting the new figure following the Judon trade. Again, for someone who normally prefers others to offer details in these situations, the fact you remain vague here is a little surprising. You just keep pointing to the money they didn't spend just for the sake of spending it and harping on "Kraft is cheap." I feel like there's more context, which you don't seem to want to take into consideration.

Just for the heck of it, I dug out who New England signed during Belichick's first offseason ahead of the 2000 season:



Aside from Bjornson and Williams, I wouldn't say that was a banner group, but again, I get it. Belichick wasn't considered a big name and the Patriots weren't considered to be much of a threat, which didn't really make them an attractive destination. So they ended up extending some of their core guys, similar to what they did this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I would have also preferred they landed the handful of impact players available this offseason. At the same time, I get why guys spurned them. It's disappointing, but I understand the issue. Back in March, they had a no-name coach, nobody other than Stevenson of note on the roster on offense, and Jacoby Brissett and Mac Jones at quarterback. For guys who like to put up big numbers to boost their own values, as well as hoping for postseason incentives, that doesn't exactly instill confidence. I mean, Belichick had Bledsoe and even he had a tough time that offeason.

Meanwhile, if Belichick had moved Judon, it would have been considered a smart decision to get something rather than see him walk for nothing, and a vote of confidence for Keion White or others would also have been better received.

I'm assuming you would also have praised him for the fact they got a third-round pick they can potentially parlay into a higher-round pick to maybe target another tackle next April. The fact they got a pick that high, to me, is still sort of amazing, given that he's a 32-year-old player. Yes, I get that it doesn't help them this season, but I think most of us have accepted the fact that playing in February was/is unlikely. I'm hoping for a competitive group in 2024 and growth, with the hope that 2025 will see them take more of a step forward and possibly make noise in the conference and maybe even get into the postseason.

You need to look at the cap situation in 2000. That is a incongruent comparison

So now you blame it on having unknown coach but who made that choice. If it truly prevented improving the team (which it didn’t) then why hire a coach who won’t allow you to bills a team.

Had they tried to build a roster and then said trading Judon would help the plan, I’d see it, but this looks like nothing more than a payroll move.