Post Game Thread - Pats vs Jags

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

You can still get decent players after the first round. Also bill took some gambles in the first round. Some of th se guys are not even playing anymore or have been traded.

Just for laughs I went and looked at Jacksonvilles draft postion from 2013-2017 guess what I found. 2013 pick 2, 2014 and 15 pick 3, 2016 pick 4 and 2017 pick 5

 

[Deus Irae]

It's a lot easier to pick Pro Bowlers, when you're picking in the top 5 in the draft for a decade.

The Patriots problem hasn't been low round drafting, which is where it's more difficult to find hits. The problem has been high round drafting, where finding hits is easier. The problem, draft-wise, has been missing picks at the top, decisions regarding retention of picks (one can argue the right or wrong of keeping players, but the discussion here is about the picks) along with blown picks when they were available. Here's the top two rounds of picks, post-2011:


2012: Didn't keep Chandler Jones, Hightower's been oft injured, drafted Tavon Wilson
2013: Didn't keep Jamie Collins, drafted Aaron Dobson
2014: Drafted Dominique Easley, drafted a QB and then didn't keep him
2015: Drafted Malcom Brown, drafted Jordan Richards
2016: Drafted Cyrus Jones
2017: Drafted Casper the ghost, maybe, because they didn't draft any live humans
2018: Drafted Isiah Wynn, drafted Sony Michel, drafted Duke Dawson


High/low is irrelevant when the top end of your draft over the past 7 seasons is giving only what it's yielding in 2018. Plenty of obvious choices were passed over in the making of the above picks.*



*I get the injury issues with the 2018 draft, but we can only go by what we have at the moment.

 

[ralmat55]

I missed much of the 1st half driving back from a family function, but here are some observations:

- the 3rd down defense is and has been the Achilles heel of this defense. They seem to be abnormally susceptible to crossing patterns and other rub schemes offenses employ. Today it seemed the Jags ran rub play after rub play on 3rd down and red zone plays. Some were blatantly picks. On the last Jaguar TD, a Jaguar WR started blocking Gilmore down field long before the pass was thrown. When the refs don’t throw a flag or two to police this, the Patriots D really suffers.

- wanted Gronk to have a big game in response to Ramsay exercising his tongue. I wish someone on the Pats or media would have reminded him that Gronk does a better job of getting open against cornerbacks than he or any corner would do lined up across from Gronk on a goal line or short yardage run play.

Anyway, the mouth did drive home a point; Gronk is far more efficient in the pass game when going against a linebacker or safety than lining up outside covered by any good corner. No matter how good a player he is; this offense needs good WR play to be successful especially against good defenses such as they encountered today. None of the WRs who played today are better than a 3rd receiver. Edelman will help on 3rd downs, but they really need a Britt or someone to make some plays on the outside.

- it was interesting to see Cordarrelle Patterson run the ball once lined up in the backfield as a running back. Could he be more of a contributor to this offense being the 225 lbs “big back” needed with the loss of Hill? He lacks the body control needed to be an effective WR as exhibited by his “bumbling, stumbling” failure to get that 1st down today,

- L’Adrian Waddle is a liability in pass protection. With it appearing as if Cannon’s injuries are going to keep him out for awhile, perhaps they should see what Croston or someone else can do.can

- Patriot linebackers are tremendous athletes but their size makes them a better fit for an old-time 2 gap 3-4 than they are for today’s modern defenses. They just are not quick or fast enough to cover in space as well as is needed. Get Hightower and Van Noy up at the end of a 5 man front more . Play Grigsby more and discard Roberts and find another faster LB to replace him.

- D.McCourty, Pat Chung and Duron Harmon are good players but this defensive coaching staff asks way too much of them. McCourty and Harmon are effective centerfielders but shouldn’t be used as often in man to man coverage nor run support. Scrap the big nickel. Play Grigsby more as well as 3rd or 4th CBs instead.

- The Patriots offense should have at least lined up as if they were trying to convert that 4th down play. Would they give Brady the sneak or some other high percentage play to convert it? You don’t find out lining up to punt. Not going with a traditional on-side kick on the 2 instances the got to kick off from the 50 is an example of this coaching staff just being way too cute and outsmarting themselves.

- it’s only one game. Relax! They’re far from a finished product in any facet of the game at this point.

 

[TommyD4207]

The Patriots problem hasn't been low round drafting, which is where it's more difficult to find hits. The problem has been high round drafting, where finding hits is easier. The problem, draft-wise, has been missing picks at the top, decisions regarding retention of picks (one can argue the right or wrong of keeping players, but the discussion here is about the picks) along with blown picks when they were available. Here's the top two rounds of picks, post-2011:


2012: Didn't keep Chandler Jones, Hightower's been oft injured, drafted Tavon Wilson
2013: Didn't keep Jamie Collins, drafted Aaron Dobson
2014: Drafted Dominique Easley, drafted a QB and then didn't keep him
2015: Drafted Malcom Brown, drafted Jordan Richards
2016: Drafted Cyrus Jones
2017: Drafted Casper the ghost, maybe, because they didn't draft any live humans
2018: Drafted Isiah Wynn, drafted Sony Michel, drafted Duke Dawson


High/low is irrelevant when the top end of your draft over the past 7 seasons is giving only what it's yielding in 2018. Plenty of obvious choices were passed over in the making of the above picks.*



*I get the injury issues with the 2018 draft, but we can only go by what we have at the moment.

How many of these picks were in the top 5? The top 10?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Just for laughs I went and looked at Jacksonvilles draft postion from 2013-2017 guess what I found. 2013 pick 2, 2014 and 15 pick 3, 2016 pick 4 and 2017 pick 5

You’re a clown. No sh*t the jaguars have one of the best defenses in the league. I am not asking for a super defense but an average one. This defense is dreadful. He goes out there and gets a guy like clayborn who got half his sacks against the cowboys.

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

You’re a clown. No sh*t the jaguars have one of the best defenses in the league. I am not asking for a super defense but an average one. This defense is dreadful. He goes out there and gets a guy like clayborn who got half his sacks against the cowboys.

Lol, maybe you should quit your day job and go offer your services to the Patriots, it’s obvious your wasting your skills as a GM on Patsfans.com

 

[Deus Irae]

Just for laughs I went and looked at Jacksonvilles draft postion from 2013-2017 guess what I found. 2013 pick 2, 2014 and 15 pick 3, 2016 pick 4 and 2017 pick 5

That draft list is actually interesting, both for good and bad

Joeckel
Bortles
Fowler
Ramsey
Fournette

So, not exactly a murderer's row, with only Ramsey being a truly outstanding pick, to date. But they've made up for that with other picks (i.e. Myles Jack), and with players gotten in other ways (i.e. Calais Campbell, A.J. Bouye).

 

[Betterthanmost]

After the Superbowl I thought it was obvious that Rowe was the weakest link. How and why BB thinks he can be any better than that beats me. Hearing the eagles salivate on the thought of going at him told scared me then and I am still scared.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

I think we’re all pretty familiar with this team averaging 12 wins since 2010, so there’s that to consider that they keep finding ways. September is also a horrible month, especially in Florida. Seasons early, I’m upset but not jumping.

But seriously, this team is giving up 31 ppg in the last three Super Bowls. We’re fortunate to have won two. What’s disturbing has been the penchant to let some of these career average QBs have tremendous games. Bortles has had SOLID games against this team the last two times. We don’t even need to bring up career backup Nick Foles.

There’s way too much pressure on Brady. The dude is 41 years old. Is there enough legitimate talent on this defense to not make brady need to throw 500 yards in a playoff game or super bowl again?

That’s ultimately the bottom line, not a week 2 loss on the road.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'm not quite following the argument that you need high draft picks to build a good defense. Are we talking the first round only or every round? Because Fowler and Jalen Ramsey were their only high picks. Jack was the next highest in Round 2. Yannick Ngakoue in round 3. Telvin Smith in round 5. The rest of their D is made up of free agents or trades.

The Seahawks built an elite defense years ago with only Earl Thomas in the 1st round.

 

[TBR]

How many of these picks were in the top 5? The top 10?

Sounds like Cleveland's #12 overall could have belonged to the Patriots if Belichick hadn't prioritized Garoppolo's well-being over the team's needs.

Schefter: With Browns begging for Jimmy Garoppolo, Bill Belichick felt 49ers would 'do right by Jimmy G'

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Has duke dawson seen the field yet? He’s on ir right? What about rivers? Why can’t he get any snaps?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

After the Superbowl I thought it was obvious that Rowe was the weakest link. How and why BB thinks he can be any better than that beats me. Hearing the eagles salivate on the thought of going at him told scared me then and I am still scared.

He had a crappy game. I don’t think he’s a number 2 but let’s see how he bounces back.

 

[Deus Irae]

How many of these picks were in the top 5? The top 10?

To repeat

High/low is irrelevant when the top end of your draft over the past 7 seasons is giving only what it's yielding in 2018. Plenty of obvious choices were passed over in the making of the above picks.

 

[TheRainMaker]

After the Superbowl I thought it was obvious that Rowe was the weakest link. How and why BB thinks he can be any better than that beats me. Hearing the eagles salivate on the thought of going at him told scared me then and I am still scared.

This was talked about during Super Bowl week that the Eagles were going to find Rowe and go after him. Who knows why BB made it even easier on them and put him on their best WR to start the game?

 

[TheRainMaker]

He had a crappy game. I don’t think he’s a number 2 but let’s see how he bounces back.

The problem is that he is too stiff. He runs like a robot.

 

[Ring 6]

I agreed w the punt. 8+ minutes left. Defense was bad but they had to make a stop of we wanted to win. Had np w it.

Prior to that punt Jax last 4 drives were 2 punts 2 turnovers and 41 total yards combined.
That long td was the nail in the coffin.

 

[upstater1]

In retrospect, I would have traded both first rounders for Derwin James!!!

 

[TheRainMaker]

In retrospect, I would have traded both first rounders for Derwin James!!!

That guy's a beast!

 

[Sciz]

The Jags defense is great because they’ve paid every successful draft pick, plus paid big money to outside acquisitions. Their total $114 million cap hit is $20 million more than the second highest paid defense, $40 million higher than the Pats.

Edit: To add, this is possible because they rolled over $40 million in cap room from the 3-13 2016 season and have spent about $25 million of that “extra” $40 million over the past two seasons. The Jags total $190 million cap spending right now is the highest cap hit for a team in NFL history.