Pioli: How valuable is he?

[Iron Helmet]

Our drafts have ranged from average to above average.
Have made some nice FA pickups, but have also have had some disappointments.
How valuable is Pioli, really?

 

[mojocaster.com]

Very. Valuable. Indeed.

 

[JMarr]

He and BB seem to work very well together and that is the most important thing.

It would suck to lose him. This team's gone through enough upheavals already.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Tough to tell, I think his value is in the trust that Belichick has in him. Results - very mixed when you look at the drafts and FA signees. Our drafts have been made in the first round and the occassional late round steal but I suspect our 2nd and 3rd round picks are below average, certainly not above average. Same with FA, the Welkers and Mosses are SO good they outweigh the tons of misses.

 

[Watson's IQ]

I don't think there's any overstating the value he's had to the team. That said, losing him wouldn't be nearly the blow losing BB would be. You almost wish it would have happened last year when we could have handed the job to Dimitroff, who's clearly doing quite well in Atlanta. That said, I expect they have a successor groomed and ready.

 

[pats1]

Extremely valuable.

 

[Jimke]

Pioli's value goes beyond free agents and draft choices. He

has a good understanding of the salary cap and he is involved

in negotiating player contracts.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

I think he is very valuable, but as has been stated, he has a few glaring misses that have been glossed over by the more splashy and productive "hits". It will suck if we lose him, but make no mistake, the real puppetmaster is BB. We can overcome his loss, particularly because I believe their are a few ready made guys that might be able to come in that have a decent pedigree too (someone like Savage).

I also agree that the biggest loss would be in continuity (short term) and the close (apparently seamless) relationship BB and he have formed (longer term). There will be a period of adjustment no matter who comes in, even if its someone that works out for the better in the long run (if that guy even exists).

 

[emoney_33]

Pioli's value goes beyond free agents and draft choices. He

has a good understanding of the salary cap and he is involved

in negotiating player contracts.

Pioli is a big part of why the Patriots continuously field a team of 53+ solid players that are capable of withstanding seemingly insurmountable injuries. He is a very important, but not irreplaceable, part of the Patriots success. Just like Tom Brady IS a very important but not irreplaceable part of the Patriots success.

 

[Iron Helmet]

The players selected by Pioli/BB almost to a man falter on other teams: See Bledsoe, Milloy, Branch, etc. (Asante being the exception). I think BB is the man making the parts better than the whole. Lose BB, and the puzzle falls apart. Pioli is expendable.

 

[BPF]

Extremely valuable.

I agree but not irreplaceable though, because everyone is. BB has a lot of admiration for how hard Pioli works, how prepared he always is and the fact that he knows his opinions are well thought out. I read that in a book somewhere, maybe it was Patriot Reign but can't recall right now. Plus he knows exactly what BB and the coaches are looking for and what type of player the Pats need system wise. The problem with most GM/Coach relationships is not that each is not talented at what they do, it's fit and ego maintenance. You can't get players into your team's system with certain skills that can't be properly utilized in that system for your team no matter how talented the player is.

 

[emoney_33]

The players selected by Pioli/BB almost to a man falter on other teams: See Bledsoe, Milloy, Branch, etc. (Asante being the exception). I think BB is the man making the parts better than the whole. Lose BB, and the puzzle falls apart. Pioli is expendable.

It's not black and white like that. The Patriots do a very good job getting players that fit their system and using them to the best of their abilities. Yes BB is a huge factor in this (and probably the biggest reason for the success of the Patriots this decade) but it's not as simple as we make it out to be.

Bledsoe was already declining as well as Milloy when they left. Branch is still the same talent just with a lesser offense/QB in which to showcase his talents. Welker wouldn't be as great on another team as he is here, but that doesn't mean he isn't great.

BB couldn't just go coach (for instance) the Lions and make them win 10+ games along with a chance at a SB with the same talent they have. It's been something BB and the Patriots have built up since the beginning of the decade.

Pioli (as well as others in the organization) have been a key part to that, however as you say BB may be the only true irreplaceable part.

 

[Deus Irae]

The players selected by Pioli/BB almost to a man falter on other teams: See Bledsoe, Milloy, Branch, etc. (Asante being the exception). I think BB is the man making the parts better than the whole. Lose BB, and the puzzle falls apart. Pioli is expendable.

Neither Milloy nor Bledsoe was selected by Pioli/BB, and Branch has been fine for the Seahawks when healthy.

 

[maverick4]

The current Falcons GM was the real talent before he left the Pats front office.

After he left we started obsessing over offensive skill positions high in the draft, and have had mediocre drafts in the past few drafts since he left.

Belichick is so good he can coach up anybody, but our drafting has gone from great/above-average to average since the Falcons GM took his post (can't remember his name).

 

[Iron Helmet]

Neither Milloy nor Bledsoe was selected by Pioli/BB, and Branch has been fine for the Seahawks when healthy.

Correct, however, the underlying point of the thread is still true: Players that had success here, tend not to elsewhere. BB is the chef. Pioli just hands him the ingredients. Not to mention, the draft classes of the past 3 years are nothing to brag about, and we are still successful.

 

[Deus Irae]

Tough to tell, I think his value is in the trust that Belichick has in him. Results - very mixed when you look at the drafts and FA signees. Our drafts have been made in the first round and the occassional late round steal but I suspect our 2nd and 3rd round picks are below average, certainly not above average. Same with FA, the Welkers and Mosses are SO good they outweigh the tons of misses.

2008
Wheatley, Crable, O'Connell

2007
None

2006
C. Jackson, D. Thomas

2005
Hobbs, Kaczur

2004
Hill, Scott

2003
Wilson, B. Johnson

2002
Branch

2001
Light, B. Williams

I'd break them down like this:

Good picks
Branch
Hobbs
Kaczur
Light
Wilson

Busts/major disappointments
B.Williams
B. Johnson
G. Scott

Not looking good so far
D. Thomas
C. Jackson

Unfair to judge yet/ever
Hill
Wheatley
Crable
O'Connell

 

[Deus Irae]

Correct, however, the underlying point of the thread is still true: Players that had success here, tend not to elsewhere. BB is the chef. Pioli just hands him the ingredients. Not to mention, the draft classes of the past 3 years are nothing to brag about, and we are still successful.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The players selected by Pioli/BB almost to a man falter on other teams: See Bledsoe, Milloy, Branch, etc. (Asante being the exception). I think BB is the man making the parts better than the whole. Lose BB, and the puzzle falls apart. Pioli is expendable.

Bledsoe - NOT selected by BB/Pioli...improved Buff's W/L record for years
Milloy - NOT selected by BB/Pioli...still playing effectively in the NFL

Asante - selected by BB/Pioli...did well Opposite from your point
Branch - selected by BB/Pioli...did poorly You got one right!!!!

Could you possibly be any more wrong in your examples???

 

[dhamz]

I'm not sure that anyone on the outside could know for sure.

What we do know is he's valuable enough that Bob Kraft proposed changing NFL rules to allow him to deny other teams permission to speak to him as long as he was under contract.

That sounds very valuable to me.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I'd break them down like this:

Good picks
Branch
Hobbs
Kaczur
Light
Wilson

Busts/major disappointments
B.Williams
B. Johnson
G. Scott

Not looking good so far
D. Thomas
C. Jackson

Unfair to judge yet/ever
Hill
Wheatley
Crable
O'Connell

We got a good couple of years from Wilson, that's not enough for a "good pick" from me for a #2. And while Hill might be "unfair to judge", he wasn't even getting on the field. They both were, at best, below value in the second round for my liking.