Pats Offseason Review - Free agents

[patsfan55]

Is it really hyperbole? Wright played extremely well down the stretch. And there are plenty of teams hurting for quality 4-3 DEs.
.

Agreed, Wright was our best pass rushing defensive lineman down the stretch, in my opinion.

 

[patsox23]

Cassel:
I am not as big of a cassel fan as most people are.......let's just say it would be smart for the pats get as much for him as possible.......I also don't think cassel showed anything this year that could be largely produced by any other QB the pats have on their roster....nothing personal against cassel sinceI do believe he's a good person and a good teammate.......I'll look at it this way: if they could get cassel to do what he did this year, then the future of kevin o'connell is literally unlimited

This is either a massive joke or you are.

 

[patsox23]

The Patriots showcased Pollard during his last pre-season game with them in an effort to try and help him hook on with another team. The Patriots didn't NEED Jordan. They got along just fine with BJGE and Faulk when Jordan and Morris were both out.

Eh. I guess I think there's a difference between a pre-season game nod to help a guy out and regular season games where a guy plays REALLY well. Lamont Jordan is miles more proven and, in my view, better, than BJGE ever will be. BJGE did well, given the OL he was running behind. While that same OL opened holes for Jordan, I saw Lamont BULL his way to yardage on extremely impressive, hard-nosed runs.

I just don't see how it's credible to suggest that Bill Belichick, during a stretch of games vital to somehow landing a playoff spot, spends his time "showcasing" Lamont Jordan to help out some other team NEXT YEAR. Bill is about one thing: winning. This game, and the next and the next. He's not wasting his time, or man-power, on doing a favor for Lamont Jordan, and that's leaving out the word that he's an enormous douche-bag loner in the locker room.

 

[patsox23]

Agreed, Wright was our best pass rushing defensive lineman down the stretch, in my opinion.

No one's denying the guy did a nice job down the stretch, he did. But it seems over-the-top to have him starting for a bunch of 4-3 teams. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Solid stuff.............. Thanks.

I'd like to see Rosie back. I certainly think he eared the right to come back and compete next year.

I'm intrigued by Tank and would like to see what he'd bring, but yeah... duribility is a concern so I'm not sure I'd put many eggs in that basket at all.

Same with Jordan. I like his "switch up" style to contrast Morris, but yeah. I saw enough of BJGE to lean away from Jordan.

Also, dead on about Heath. I'll always love him for that "hometown deal" a few years back (and his comments around it), but Russ was taking over many of his duties by year end. He did have a nice catch and key 1st down in the the Bill game though


Again. Good stuff Bruinz

 

[ALP]

Solid stuff.............. Thanks.

I'd like to see Rosie back. I certainly think he eared the right to come back and compete next year.

I'm intrigued by Tank and would like to see what he'd bring, but yeah... duribility is a concern so I'm not sure I'd put many eggs in that basket at all.

Same with Jordan. I like his "switch up" style to contrast Morris, but yeah. I saw enough of BJGE to lean away from Jordan.

Also, dead on about Heath. I'll always love him for that "hometown deal" a few years back (and his comments around it), but Russ was taking over many of his duties by year end. He did have a nice catch and key 1st down in the the Bill game though


Again. Good stuff Bruinz

sure Russ took over sometimes, but who plays FB on runs to the outside? Russ sure cant...

evans isnt going anywhere

 

[Joker]

I'd like to see two top tier OLB's to go along with Mayo this upcoming season...as far as I've been able to tell all these years watching BB defenses, when the LB's are tops , the defense is the best....going all the way back to Harry Carson, LT, Pepper Johnson days. Draft or free agency...I don't really care...I just want way more speed off the edge and shooting the gaps, and quicker sideline to sideline coverage.

 

[363839]

.... He's not wasting his time, or man-power, on doing a favor for Lamont Jordan, and that's leaving out the word that he's an enormous douche-bag loner in the locker room.

Are you saying Lamont is a douche bag loner?
Where 'd you get this?

 

[DaBruinz]

Eh. I guess I think there's a difference between a pre-season game nod to help a guy out and regular season games where a guy plays REALLY well. Lamont Jordan is miles more proven and, in my view, better, than BJGE ever will be. BJGE did well, given the OL he was running behind. While that same OL opened holes for Jordan, I saw Lamont BULL his way to yardage on extremely impressive, hard-nosed runs.

I just don't see how it's credible to suggest that Bill Belichick, during a stretch of games vital to somehow landing a playoff spot, spends his time "showcasing" Lamont Jordan to help out some other team NEXT YEAR. Bill is about one thing: winning. This game, and the next and the next. He's not wasting his time, or man-power, on doing a favor for Lamont Jordan, and that's leaving out the word that he's an enormous douche-bag loner in the locker room.

Jordan is 30 and will be 31 at the start of next season. I saw him "BULL" his way against team's he had a chip on his shoulder for in the Jets and Raiders. Beyond that, he was pedestrian. BJGE is 7 years younger and has more power in his runs than Jordan.

While BILL is about winning, he is also pragmatic. He knew, entering December, that even if the Pats won all 4 games, that it would be a long shot to make the play-offs because of the losses the Pats had suffered to Indy, the Jets, and Phins previously. So, if he can kill 2 birds with one stone, why not? Also, BB is known to live by the code that a veteran doesn't lose his spot on the roster because of an injury, unless he is just flat out out-played. BJGE didn't outplay Jordan, but has much more upside than Jordan does.

Now, as for your comments about BJGE's potential, they come across as being pretty assinine unless you can see the future. Jordan is 30 going on 31. His upside is basically nil. BJGE has a lot of upside and did extremely well filling in as a starter. I think that, in the long run, he'll be a perfect #3 (behind the starter and 3rd down back). Jordan, on the other hand, won't ever been more than a #4 on the Pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

sure Russ took over sometimes, but who plays FB on runs to the outside? Russ sure cant...

evans isnt going anywhere

You can't say that Evans isn't going anywhere. And Hochstein DID block in runs to the outside at times because he lined up at TE.

There are better blocking FBs than Evans and you'd be deluded to think otherwise.

 

[KY Pats Fan]

The LB situation will be very fluid this offseason, IMHO. If you look at the young core that they have with Mayo, Guyton, Crable, Woods, Redd, Ruud it is hard to imagine guys like Izzo and Alexander hanging around. I often thought that Alexander would finally start making an impact on the field other than ST's.

I do expect Brushi and Seau to retire and Vrable and Thomas to be in the rotation.

 

[Ring 6]

A few things.

First, I have to object STRENOUSLY to your comment that Pioli has had as much to do with the success of the franchise as BB.
Yes, Pioli has done a nice job, but he is carrying out BBs plans. He works FOR BB, and the ideas behind the franchise belong to BB. Pioli's value is that his philosophy matches BBs (no surprise because BB taught it to him) so BB can delegate a lot of responsibility to him.
When there is disagreement there is no doubt BB wins the argument, but how much disagreement can there be when BB taught Pioli everything he knows?

Secondly, if Wright were in 43, and particularly a one gap 43 he would be a DT, not a DE. Those teams play big LBs at DE not small DTs.

 

[DaBruinz]

A few things.

First, I have to object STRENOUSLY to your comment that Pioli has had as much to do with the success of the franchise as BB.
Yes, Pioli has done a nice job, but he is carrying out BBs plans. He works FOR BB, and the ideas behind the franchise belong to BB. Pioli's value is that his philosophy matches BBs (no surprise because BB taught it to him) so BB can delegate a lot of responsibility to him.
When there is disagreement there is no doubt BB wins the argument, but how much disagreement can there be when BB taught Pioli everything he knows?

Secondly, if Wright were in 43, and particularly a one gap 43 he would be a DT, not a DE. Those teams play big LBs at DE not small DTs.

Andy -

Thanks for your comments. However, if there is anything that I've learned about leadership over the years of being a manager, its that any good manager always has his eyes and ears open to the people who are doing the actual work. So, while BB may have developed the philosophy, its been refined with the help of Pioli.

As I said, I think that Pioli has as much to do with it because he's the one who got the players that BB wanted signed to the team. There were some players who got away (Derrick Mason) and some who should have gotten away (Monty Beisel, Duane Starks). But there have been plenty that Pioli has gotten in here that have been intergral parts of this team (Vrabel, Harrison, Colvin).

I don't believe that the Patriots would have won 3 SBs without Pioli being in the position he is in. If its anyone else, I believe that the Pats may not even have ONE SB.

Pioli is also responsible for the scouting personnel. Particularly at the college level. He was the one who trained Dimitroff. He's been involved in the training of many of the other scouts. The people who have brought us Matt Cassel, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, etc, etc. Without those Pioli trainined scouts, the Pats don't win 3 in 4 years. The Pats don't become the class of the NFL.

As I said, its also my belief that Belichick cannot fire Pioli. Just like its my belief that Pioli can't fire Belichick. Those two decisions are for Kraft and Kraft alone. And I believe that is one of the reasons why Pioli is happy to stay in New England and that, contrary to reports, Pioli feels respected.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

As for:

Gaffney- I'm not sure. He was a good hard working teammate and productive at times but not what many would call a threat. Plus, that drop in Indy was a major league failure. A. Bryant would be a major upgrade but after the numbers he put this year he'll be asking for too much $ and not looking to be a number 3. In fact, I can't see anyone on the FA list that is clealr better than Gaffney that would take the no. 3 role. Prediction - both the Pats and Gaffney sniff around the FA market but he comes back and the Pats draft a WR pretty high.

Hochstein- He'd hurt to lose because of his versatility and attitude. However, he'll probably go since so many teams have lousy O-Lines and will offer him near starter money. Prediction- he's gone, unfortunately. Unless he decides he likes it here and takes a hometown discount, unlikely.

L. Sanders- He proved to be a versatile contributor and seemed to help stabilize the D. Strikes me as BB's type of dude - quiet, dependable, flexible, smart. But what do I know? Prediction- he's back with 2 year deal with small bonus.

J. Sanders- I have no sense of his worth around the league. He never really stood out often, bad or good. He's not a ballhawk and doesn't make any sacks or tackles for losses. I'm underwhelmed by him but BB has mentioned JS's effort more than once. With Rodney's return very much in doubt I'd guess the Pats offer Sanders a decent deal. But with all those UFA safeties out there, you never know... Maybe if the Pats re-sign Lewis Sanders, Brian Dawkins brings his Seau type act to NE? Dawkins is a year younger than Rodney and has been more durable. No, Dawkins doesn't run that well anymore but that's what we have Meriweather for. Plus, Dawkins often collects 2-3 sacks per year.

Hanson- probably has more value to team as FG holder than punter right now, Gostkowski mentioned his work a number of times. Without great numbers he's unlikely to get a big offer somewhere else. Prediction - comes back but with no guarantee of a job.

Rodney- Because he's had three major injuries the last 3 seasons and won't attract much interest elsewhere he comes back on a one year deal but gets cut/hurt in camp. Age finally overcomes the great warrior.

Seau - from my seat it looked like the D played better once Seau came back. He still shows the desire and it appears to be contagious. prediction- BB and Junior leave the door open for a post TC return.

Jordan - gone, will ask for too much and the Pats will say thanks and good luck.

Izzo- he's happy here and how much could he really be worth to another team? He's back but it's not a big deal if he doesn't return, the Pats have to turn that page on ST just like they had to at LB.

Tank W- coming off his major knee injury he'll garner limited interest, maybe even from the Pats. Can he still run? Considering the number of intriguing UFA Safeties on the market I'd say it's 50-50 at best he returns.

Wright- gone, will get a bigger offer somewhere else. Plus, it's time the Pats draft a couple of D-Linemen what with Seymour and Wilfork due for new contracts soon.

Colvin and O'Neal - who cares?

Evans- good soldier type, back for the minimum. Look for Pats to draft a hybrid FB/RB in a mid-round to give Evans some much needed competition.

Paxton - of course he's back, what other team encourages making snow angels?

Alexander - offered the minimum to return for camp battle. His return or departure is inconsequential.

Woods - 2nd round tender? Seems kind of high, what's that worth, $2-3mil/year? I can't see the Pats dropping that kind of cash on Woods. Not with Crable waiting in the wings. I bet they want him back but for less. Besides, who would in their right mind would drop a number two on us for Woods? BB would hop on that draft pick like a sea gull on a French Fry.

Britt - where's he going to go? He's back for minimum or is signed by Parcells and company in Miami as The Tuna's parting shot to BB before the Fat One takes his out clause to...Detroit? Nah. How about San Fran?

 

[mgteich]

You think the best opporunity is to sign a long-term deal for cheap for the patriots? Someone will agree with you, that he is starting caliber, and offer a market (not cheap) 3-5 contract. I think he might play for a bit less for us, but there is no reason for him to play for short money.

James Sanders should be back cheap. He is starting caliber, but had a slow season last year. I dont think he'll sign on somewhere else and get the same opportunity like he has on the Pats.

I like the idea of bringing back Colvin to battle it out in TC. No one else wants him so a prove it deal could be in line.

 

[mgteich]

DB
I agree with almost all you comments in the initial two posts.

I do think that Gaffney will be offered a reasonable contract to stay. I think that he provides value as the #3. They could replace him with a free agent, but both the risk and the cost would be more. In addition, if we are able to extend a could of our DL's, I think that we will be able to draft a wide reeiver in the 100 picks to compete with Gaffney.

Moroney is the next Faulk in many situations. I would like to see him used more as a returner and as a receiver. He does need to improve his blocking. I would rather keep Jordan as the #4 RB, rather than a draftee to eventually replace Faulk. I don't like using roster spots for developmental RB's. BTW, you would keep two developmental RB's, BJGE and the draftee to eventually replace Faulk. One is plenty. If we choose to draft the eventual replacement for Faulk, then I surely would want to re-sign Jordan. BJGE would be the odd man out.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

You think the best opporunity is to sign a long-term deal for cheap for the patriots? Someone will agree with you, that he is starting caliber, and offer a market (not cheap) 3-5 contract. I think he might play for a bit less for us, but there is no reason for him to play for short money.

Mgteich-

I'm really in the clouds on J. Sanders. Do you think he's anything more than a decent player? He just doesn't strike me as worth more than $1-1.5m/year, if that much. Do you think I'm wrong on that? Like I said, to me he's invisible so much of the time he's on the field that i can't figure there are many teams planning to target him in FA, especially considering the other Safeties available this year.

 

[mgteich]

It's probably a matter of salary inflation, but I don't think you can get a young starter, ready to plug in, for less than $2M a year. This is the first free agent contract for Sanders. I would think that he will bring a $2M - $2.5M a year for a 4-5 year contract. We don't need, and can't afford, pro-bowlers at every position. A decent player who can start at both safety positions is fine with me. That being said, he is the same position as Hochstein and Wright. These are our three free agent who will be out looking for better deals, or re-signing with us. All could start for other teams.

Even with all of this, I expect to draft a safety. The question is how high a priority the position will have to be come draft time.

Mgteich-

I'm really in the clouds on J. Sanders. Do you think he's anything more than a decent player? He just doesn't strike me as worth more than $1-1.5m/year, if that much. Do you think I'm wrong on that? Like I said, to me he's invisible so much of the time he's on the field that i can't figure there are many teams planning to target him in FA, especially considering the other Safeties available this year.

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

Gaffney stays. You wont see those drops again next season.

 

[ayjackson]

A few things.

Secondly, if Wright were in 43, and particularly a one gap 43 he would be a DT, not a DE. Those teams play big LBs at DE not small DTs.

Based on discussions in the draft forum, I have to believe DB meant DT not DE.