Pats and Wilfork close to a deal for an extension?

[BradyFTW!]

He is a double digit sack artist. That is worth 10 million.

So John Abraham was worth $10M per year last year? Shaun Phillips is this year?

 

[Brady6]

What does Amendola have to do with Wilfork? Wilfork is coming back from an injury in a situation (350 pounds, mid 30s, family history of diabetes) where his prospects of making anything close to a full recovery are break. While being paid to be an elite player at his position. Meanwhile, the team can save $7.5M against the cap by cutting him.



Amendola is paid to be a pretty good WR, and is coming back from an injury that guys successfully come back from all the time. All while being younger and in overall better health than big Vince, and while cutting him provides only a fraction of the cap relief that cutting Wilfork does.



If the Pats stood to gain $7.5M on the cap by cutting Amendola, I would advocate that they cut him too.

I just think Wilfork deserves more support than he receives on this board and when I see the same people fighting me all offseason over a receiver who has one season of subpar play here saying that they would not overpay for Vince Wilfork I think it makes no sense. I'm not saying to pay him what he is being paid now but being against restructuring him doesn't add up to me.

 

[patsfan-1982]

it was a good move by the pats to not cut him. now that market has died down a lil and the price for a run stuffing DT is only about 4 million on the market they can now redo his contract, hope this is true cause the pats need him if they want a defense that can not just hold a lead but maybe even win a game in the playoffs

 

[Brady6]

So John Abraham was worth $10M per year last year? Shaun Phillips is this year?

Abraham got $4.6M for two years. Philips may get $4M APY at best in my opinion.

 

[RayClay]

Maybe Volin is his source.

Vince Wilfork Asking For Release ?A Negotiation Tactic,? Ben Volin Says | New England Patriots | NESN.com

 

[Stylez]

I freakin hope he is back. I love this dude, I'm stoked if this is true.

 

[Joker]

What does Amendola have to do with Wilfork? Wilfork is coming back from an injury in a situation (350 pounds, mid 30s, family history of diabetes) where his prospects of making anything close to a full recovery are break. While being paid to be an elite player at his position. Meanwhile, the team can save $7.5M against the cap by cutting him.

Amendola is paid to be a pretty good WR, and is coming back from an injury that guys successfully come back from all the time. All while being younger and in overall better health than big Vince, and while cutting him provides only a fraction of the cap relief that cutting Wilfork does.

If the Pats stood to gain $7.5M on the cap by cutting Amendola, I would advocate that they cut him too.

Cogito ergo sum....

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Abraham got $4.6M for two years. Philips may get $4M APY at best in my opinion.

Yeah, he was responding to the poster that said Allen is worth $10 million a year because he had double digit sacks. So did Abraham and Phillips and they're obviously not getting/worth that much money.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Abraham got $4.6M for two years. Philips may get $4M APY at best in my opinion.

Yeah, that's my point. Double digit sacks don't make a guy a $10 million a year player in their own right.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I don't get you MG you advocate for Amendola constantly a player with one mediocre season with this franchise. Wilfork a player who has been the face of this defense for the better part of a decade, an all pro player on the field, and one of the best leaders on the team you want to draw the hard line on though. He is 32 years old with one major injury in his career, in 2012 he was an all pro player.

All the so called "homers" who support the like Amendola, other players, and coaches all day long and defend them against all criticism even if it merited, but I see few advocating for Wilfork. That makes zero sense to be at all. If anyone deserves willingness to assume some risk (outside of Brady) it's Wilfork.

Actually what makes no sense is your compulsion to turn every thread into a crap fest on Danny Amendola. Its really obnoxious and tiresome.

 

[PATS16N0]

I just think Wilfork deserves more support than he receives on this board and when I see the same people fighting me all offseason over a receiver who has one season of subpar play here saying that they would not overpay for Vince Wilfork I think it makes no sense. I'm not saying to pay him what he is being paid now but being against restructuring him doesn't add up to me.

The problem is the salary cap. We're not in the business of rooting for Wilfork's bank account. We're in the business of rooting for the Patriots and their ability to win Superbowls. Giving Vince a 10M cap hit hurts the team.

Brady deserves a lot more than he gets too, and using his wife as an excuse isn't a very good one.

Everyone here loves Wilfork. We just don't want him on our football team if it's going to eat up too much of our money.

 

[Deus Irae]

...This is a $2.5M cap cost for 2014. A $7.5M bonus would result in a $3.5M cap (there would be no guarantees for 2015, but Wilfork would get his money now). This is the $4M cap "savings" that folks are discussing. To me, this is NOT a cap savings at all...

It's a cap savings. It's basic math. If you take away the zeros, it's 1st or 2nd grade stuff. You're trying to skip a step, which is a way to frame the argument, but not a way to magically make a cap savings disappear.

 

[mgteich]

As you well know, the issue is the framework.

Sure, one way to SAVE $4M in cap would choose to pay Wilfork $8.5M a year plus incentives, since such a contract might save $4M in 2014 cap savings (say $7.5M in bonus and $8.5M in 2015 and 2016 salaries, with a $1M 2014 salary). I suspect that the first year and bonus is exactly what Wilfork wants/demands; the issue is likely to be the 2015 and 2016 salaries.

Personally, I do NOT think that cap savings in the appropriate framework very often, expect in restructures where the compensation remains the same.

You are CORRECT, the above contract saves $4M on the 2014 cap (no matter what the 2015 and 2016 salaries). It is indeed basic math. It is also basic math that the patriots would be laying out over $8.5M for Wilfork's 2014 services. The question is what the patriots get back for that guarantee.

It's a cap savings. It's basic math. If you take away the zeros, it's 1st or 2nd grade stuff. You're trying to skip a step, which is a way to frame the argument, but not a way to magically make a cap savings disappear.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I think it's in the best interest of the team and Wilfork to get a restructure done, and the key will be the final numbers in the deal and the protection it offers the team if he doesn't return to good form. I don't believe he will ever be the player he was in his prime again but he is still a special player and at 80% of that would still be a significant contributor for them, especially as a run stuffer. People tend to forget that this really isn't about amassing big name players but about building a TEAM, and Wilfork is a guy who can play a big role as part of the TEAM. He's a true leader and a guy who can show a young defense how to win and their DL will be significantly stronger if he can come back to good form that it will be without him. he will still have to pass a physical to show he can play and get paid and at this point the remaining free agent market really doesn't have player's who they should be clearing out big money to go after. They have done a great job so far and still have work to do but they can get the rest of it done without creating a big hole on their line. They should get the restructure done and then get some other player's, like McCourty, done so they have enough to finish the job without going berserk. I don't think they should do a deal out of nostalgia and if he can't pass the physical or comes back and can't return to good form then they should move on at that time, but i really don't see the need to release him unless he's unreasonable in his demands, and i think they will have one less hole to fill and will be a better team this season if he returns and plays well for them.


I would like to see them restructure Wilfork, sign Philips, and then add depth at LB then put the finishing touches on the defense in the draft where they will be able to add a high quality prospect if they wish to do so.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Wilfork is coming back from an injury in a situation (350 pounds, mid 30s, family history of diabetes) where his prospects of making anything close to a full recovery are break. While being paid to be an elite player at his position. Meanwhile, the team can save $7.5M against the cap by cutting him.

according to the charger hacks(reporters)out here, vince is well over 400lbs and totally out of shape. heard them say it myself and was a little surprised seeing as i haven't heard it from anyone back there and i listen and read every day.

 

[Huckleberry1]

according to the charger hacks(reporters)out here, vince is well over 400lbs and totally out of shape. heard them say it myself and was a little surprised seeing as i haven't it from anyone back there and i listen and read every day.

This isn't a shot at you but I honestly think this is a bunch of crap. Wilfork didn't look close to that at the AFCCG and the Patriots medical staff is definitely following his progress in rehab and Wilfork has everything to lose by simple allowing himself to go to hell physically. And for all those claiming Bianca is making the decisions it is seriously doubtful he's spending his days watching Oprah and pigging out on buckets and buckets of wings. Wilfork is probably around 350 and following his rehab program to the T. He is big but he's never been lazy and I think those betting against him are making a big mistake. He isn't worth 11 million and they shouldn't pay him that but if they can get him down around 5 million cap hit they should do it because Vince Wilfork make s this a much better line overall even if he is at 80%, and if they see he can't get back to that point they will always have the option of moving on without getting killed by it. This can be a win/win for both parties and if they get it done the Patriots are that much closer to ready for next season.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments:

1. The Pats would be insane to restructure Vince's deal in any way that doesn't protect them from his inability to play at the highest level.

2. I can see how a restructure can save $4MM in cap space, what I question is that enough. We need the $7.8MM we'd get if we simply release him.....and a little more besides.

3. If the Pats are currently at around $4MM in cap space, they are going to have to create about $10MM more if we hare going to be able to sign the players we need to sign in order to complete what we've started.

We still need that additional pass rusher, a move TE, a couple of LB's, and at least one OLman, PLUS $4MM to sign our rookies and another 2MM for a reserve. We can squeeze out another $3-4MM with assorted cuts or restructures of other players, but unless there is a way to create around $7MM in cap space from Vince's contract, I question if we have any other option but to cut him now, and if he's capable of playing, re-sign him down the road.

4. In 2012 Vince was truly all pro worthy. However, I would note that he came to camp that year positively svelte (all things being relative, of course ). Given his age, position, and kind of injury he has to overcome, Vince needs to be a lot closer to 315 than 340. He needs to be the "svelte" Vince again. So reports that he looks like he's close to 400 aren't encouraging.

5. I loved the post that talked about the increase in the price of Wilfolk jerseys as proof the Pats may be closer to a deal with Vince than we expect. It made perfect sense and was a great find.

6. Finally, the issue with the Pats and Vince is that the Pats need the space NOW, not in 3 months from now when Vince might be able to show he can play That's why I think the Pats should release him now, but with a mutual understanding of the approximate numbers and framework of a new deal when/if he can prove he can play.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Some comments on the comments:

1. The Pats would be insane to restructure Vince's deal in any way that doesn't protect them from his inability to play at the highest level.

2. I can see how a restructure can save $4MM in cap space, what I question is that enough. We need the $7.8MM we'd get if we simply release him.....and a little more besides.

3. If the Pats are currently at around $4MM in cap space, they are going to have to create about $10MM more if we hare going to be able to sign the players we need to sign in order to complete what we've started.

We still need that additional pass rusher, a move TE, a couple of LB's, and at least one OLman, PLUS $4MM to sign our rookies and another 2MM for a reserve. We can squeeze out another $3-4MM with assorted cuts or restructures of other players, but unless there is a way to create around $7MM in cap space from Vince's contract, I question if we have any other option but to cut him now, and if he's capable of playing, re-sign him down the road.

4. In 2012 Vince was truly all pro worthy. However, I would note that he came to camp that year positively svelte (all things being relative, of course ). Given his age, position, and kind of injury he has to overcome, Vince needs to be a lot closer to 315 than 340. He needs to be the "svelte" Vince again. So reports that he looks like he's close to 400 aren't encouraging.

5. I loved the post that talked about the increase in the price of Wilfolk jerseys as proof the Pats may be closer to a deal with Vince than we expect. It made perfect sense and was a great find.

6. Finally, the issue with the Pats and Vince is that the Pats need the space NOW, not in 3 months from now when Vince might be able to show he can play That's why I think the Pats should release him now, but with a mutual understanding of the approximate numbers and framework of a new deal when/if he can prove he can play.

1) Wilfork will never be at his highest level again, but he can still be a really good player. The Patriots have a large amount of money and significant team issues riding on Wilfork, there is absolutely no way that they don't know how much he weighs and how he is doing in his rehab, and that knowledge has everything to do with what they will be willing to pay him, they aren't going into it blind, they will have all of the information they need to make a good decision on his future here.


2) Miguel has outlined a number of scenarios to clear out space and with any decent restructure from Wilfork they can still clear plenty of money for more free agents, their draft class, and space for 2014. I would like to see a couple more signings from the middle class of this free agency but overall they have accomplished more than i could have hoped for going in with room to do more. And if they lose Wilfork it means they have to pay in one way or another to fill that hole.

3) Agree on the Jerseys, it's an interesting way to get a glimpse inside, hope they are right.


4) Disagree on the Patriots needing the money now, if anything the list of remaining free agents was less than awe inspiring. I'm not saying there aren't good players still out there but the patriots don't need big cap space to get most deals done unless they are placating Jared Allen. I'm not advocating giving Vince 11 million but i also don't see how cutting him just to get a couple million more really helps them right now when they could easily get that with a couple of other moves that would be less extreme. The Patriots don't need to get all of their needed cap space from Vince Wilfork, just some of it.


Vince Wilfork is a HOF Patriot and should be a Hall of Famer period, and while they shouldn't pay him for what he has already been paid for they should find ways to keep him to the benefit of he and the team.

 

[Marqui]

Not surprised if this is true. Flat out cutting him always seemed too extreme to me.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

You have to pay for talent.

That's why you post for free.