Pats and Wilfork close to a deal for an extension?

[Rob0729]

I think he would settle for Ware's 3 for 30 deal.

I am sure he would too. Too bad that is the ridiculous demand I am talking about. Jared Allen isn't worth that contract. And neither is Ware.

 

[TB=TD]

You also have to pay to retain talent.

Not if you draft well enough.

 

[Rob0729]

You have to pay for talent.

You pay for what he can give you in the future, not what he gave someone else in the past. Allen is not a $10 million a year talent anymore.

 

[ausbacker]

Not if you draft well enough.

When the next round of contracts come after the rookie deals expire, do players still play on rookie deals? No, they don't. If the player demonstrates talent and the team wishes to keep them in employ, their deals significantly increase and you pay to retain that talent.

 

[TB=TD]

You pay for what he can give you in the future, not what he gave someone else in the past. Allen is not a $10 million a year talent anymore.

He is a double digit sack artist. That is worth 10 million.

 

[TB=TD]

When the next round of contracts come after the rookie deals expire, do players still play on rookie deals? No, they don't. If the player demonstrates talent and the team wishes to keep them in employ, their deals significantly increase and you pay to retain that talent.

If Brady is retired by then it won't matter.

 

[bigballas]

hmmm, very interesting. If we use proshop/pats as a proxy:
Vince Wilfork New England Patriots Jerseys - NFLShop.com

I would say very possible this news is true...they had discounted all Wilfork jerseys once new hits asking for a release (as they do with all players not on team anymore). The price has now gone back up to full price....

 

[Rob0729]

He is a double digit sack artist. That is worth 10 million.

I don't want highjack this thread about Jared Allen, but he is a 32 year old DE who is declining skills and cannot play running downs anymore. He is a pass rush specialist. He isn't worth $10 million a year. I would love to have him on the team, but nowhere near what he is asking.

I would rather sign Shaun Phillips (who also is a double digit sack artist) for $3-4 million than Allen at $10 million.

 

[JMC00]

He is a double digit sack artist. That is worth 10 million.

Guy has only had 7.5 sacks more than Rob Ninkovich over past two seasons. He isn't worth $10m to the Patriots.

Now a guy like Shaun Philips at $1m-$1.5m is worth it.

 

[mgteich]

I just don't understand this logic. Why should we pay Wilfork MUCH more than he'd command on the open market?

BTW, the $3.6M is gone; it is part of the cap no matter what.
===============
The patriots have a one-year contract with Wilfork that would pay him $8M. The question (and IMHO, the only question) should be how much Wilfork's future play is worth to the patriots. If Wilfork is judged to be worth $4M a year for 3 years, then he should be paid $12M over 3 years. IMHO, it really is that simple.

Structuring a deal is not a problem, once the guaranteed money is known. If the total is $12M/3 with $8M guaranteed, then it can be worked out. The contract might be $4.5M bonus, salaries:$1M, $2.5M, $4M with 2014 and 2015 salaries guaranteed against skill but not injury. Obviously, there would be incentives and an injury clause.

This is a $2.5M cap cost for 2014. A $7.5M bonus would result in a $3.5M cap (there would be no guarantees for 2015, but Wilfork would get his money now). This is the $4M cap "savings" that folks are discussing. To me, this is NOT a cap savings at all. It is a $3.5M cap cost, with a $3M dead cost if the player isn't back next year.

BTW, the 2015 and 2016 salaries are totally irrelevant to the 2014 cap hit. All that matters in 2014 are LTBE bonuses and salary.

BOTTOM LINE
$8M of new money is a huge risk for the patriots. The FO may think that the potential rewards are worth the considerable risk.

Whatever he gets from the Pats in a re-structuring is MUCH more than he'd command on the open market

 

[bruinator]

Guy has only had 7.5 sacks more than Rob Ninkovich over past two seasons. He isn't worth $10m to the Patriots.

Now a guy like Shaun Philips at $1m-$1.5m is worth it.

Is Shaun Phillips a free agent now?

 

[Brady6]

I was listening to WEEI this afternoon and Jerry Thornton of Barstool Sports was cohosting. Right before he left, he said "a friend of a friend" has told him that the Pats and Big Vince have agreed in principle to an extension.



Thornton did break the Pats signing LaFell on Twitter before anyone else. So he does have connections. He didn't seem as confident with the Big Vince rumor as the LaFell one, but Ben Volin also said today that Vince asking for release was just a negotiating tactic and he would be back.



May be nothing, but I figured I would pass the info along since I haven't seen it anywhere here.

That would be great news if it is true. Wilfork solidifies our run defense and chews up blockers. He and Kelly would give us an elite defensive line, and allow us time to develop Armstead and others to replace them long term.

The Revis signing was the bomb but this for me is a close second.

 

[Brady6]

I just don't understand this logic. Why should we pay Wilfork MUCH more than he'd command on the open market?

BTW, the $3.6M is gone; it is part of the cap no matter what.
===============
The patriots have a one-year contract with Wilfork that would pay him $8M. The question (and IMHO, the only question) should be how much Wilfork's future play is worth to the patriots. If Wilfork is judged to be worth $4M a year for 3 years, then he should be paid $12M over 3 years. IMHO, it really is that simple.

Structuring a deal is not a problem, once the guaranteed money is known. If the total is $12M/3 with $8M guaranteed, then it can be worked out. The contract might be $4.5M bonus, salaries:$1M, $2.5M, $4M with 2014 and 2015 salaries guaranteed against skill but not injury. Obviously, there would be incentives and an injury clause.

This is a $2.5M cap cost for 2014. A $7.5M bonus would result in a $3.5M cap (there would be no guarantees for 2015, but Wilfork would get his money now). This is the $4M cap "savings" that folks are discussing. To me, this is NOT a cap savings at all. It is a $3.5M cap cost, with a $3M dead cost if the player isn't back next year.

BTW, the 2015 and 2016 salaries are totally irrelevant to the 2014 cap hit. All that matters in 2014 are LTBE bonuses and salary.

BOTTOM LINE
$8M of new money is a huge risk for the patriots. The FO may think that the potential rewards are worth the considerable risk.

I don't get you MG you advocate for Amendola constantly a player with one mediocre season with this franchise. Wilfork a player who has been the face of this defense for the better part of a decade, an all pro player on the field, and one of the best leaders on the team you want to draw the hard line on though. He is 32 years old with one major injury in his career, in 2012 he was an all pro player.

All the so called "homers" who support the like Amendola, other players, and coaches all day long and defend them against all criticism even if it merited, but I see few advocating for Wilfork. That makes zero sense to be at all. If anyone deserves willingness to assume some risk (outside of Brady) it's Wilfork.

 

[JMC00]

Is Shaun Phillips a free agent now?

Yep.......

 

[ausbacker]

If Brady is retired by then it won't matter.

I can see how Brady retiring correlates to the other 31 teams in the NFL paying to retain their own talent once their rookie deals expire.

Apply the same rationale to the Patriots as you would to any other team. It encourages a better exchange of ideas.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I would've preferred that they cut him early and go after Linval Joseph, but that ship has sailed. At this point, they can't really cut him and address DT in FA, so it's either cut him and supplement the position in the draft and roster cutdowns, or it's extend/restructure.

Maybe I'm just being unreasonably pessimistic here, but it seems like an unlikely bet to bank on Wilfork's achilles, not to mention his overall conditioning, getting back to a level where he can justify more than half of his current 2014 salary.

Imagine if he wasn't a lifelong Patriot, and we were looking at a 33 year old NT coming off a torn achilles who had consistently played at an all pro level prior to his injury. Would you be pumped if the Pats signed him to a 3 year contract with a ~$4M AAV? I don't think I would like that. I would love to be proven wrong, though, and have Vince come back at a lower salary at ~80% of his former self. Never ready to see a guy like him go.

 

[TB=TD]

I can see how Brady retiring correlates to the other 31 teams in the NFL paying to retain their own talent once their rookie deals expire.

Apply the same rationale to the Patriots as you would to any other team. It encourages a better exchange of ideas.

Why exchange ideas when people can just rob them?

 

[JMC00]

If this is true, I wonder Kraft's level involvement with it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't get you MG you advocate for Amendola constantly a player with one mediocre season with this franchise. Wilfork a player who has been the face of this defense for the better part of a decade, an all pro player on the field, and one of the best leaders on the team you want to draw the hard line on though. He is 32 years old with one major injury in his career, in 2012 he was an all pro player.

All the so called "homers" who support the like Amendola, other players, and coaches all day long and defend them against all criticism even if it merited, but I see few advocating for Wilfork. That makes zero sense to be at all. If anyone deserves willingness to assume some risk (outside of Brady) it's Wilfork.

What does Amendola have to do with Wilfork? Wilfork is coming back from an injury in a situation (350 pounds, mid 30s, family history of diabetes) where his prospects of making anything close to a full recovery are break. While being paid to be an elite player at his position. Meanwhile, the team can save $7.5M against the cap by cutting him.

Amendola is paid to be a pretty good WR, and is coming back from an injury that guys successfully come back from all the time. All while being younger and in overall better health than big Vince, and while cutting him provides only a fraction of the cap relief that cutting Wilfork does.

If the Pats stood to gain $7.5M on the cap by cutting Amendola, I would advocate that they cut him too.

 

[patchick]

The relatively soft market for DTs in free agency has to work to the Patriots' advantage here. I've kept Vince penciled in on my roster, and I'm optimistic about him staying.