PostGame Thread Patriots win 5 in a row, defeat Browns 32-13

[Ring 6]

If Jones wins, he would undisputably be worthy. He's more than keeping up with Maye so far this year. he came out of nowhere but he's having one absolute hell of a campaign.

The only difference between Jones and Maye is that Jones has a slightly better supporting staff.

“More than keeping up” would = doing better.

Jones 71.2% complete 2062 pass yds 13 TD 8.5 YPA 109.5 passer rating 86 rushing yard

Maye 75.2%. 2926 pass yards. 15 TD. 9.0 YPA. 118.7 rating 250 rushing yds

I don’t see any “more than”

I’d also say having the leading rusher in the NFL in attempts, yards and TDs with a 5.9 ypc is more than slightly better.

 

[Ring 6]

This is crazy but we're talking about locking up the 1 or 2 seed right now. When the season started I didn't even think the playoffs was possible. Now the playoffs feels like a lock and we're actually playing for seeding? Wild stuff.

I'm gonna say take it one week at a time. Nearly every game appears winnable but let's not forget this is still a young team. There might be a few bumps in the road that make us go, oops how did we lose that one. But as long as Drake Maye is playing well, we stand a chance in every game now. That's not something we could say about the QB position for a long time now.

If we can get to 12 wins I'd be very happy. Let's just see where this ride takes us with our schedule.

Falcons 3-4 @ home.
@Tampa Bay 6-2.
Jets 1-7 @ home.
@Bengals 3-5.
Giants 2-6 @ home.
BYE
Buffalo 5-2 @ home.
@Ravens 2-5.
@ Jets 1-7.
Dolphins 2-6 @ home.

The toughest games left are Tampa Bay on the road and Buffalo at home.

We are 6-2 now. So if we lose both tough games and win 6 out of the 7 winnable games, that's still 12-5. Or we might split the two tough games, and end up winning 5 of 7 from the easier ones. 12 wins looks doable to me.

Bottom line is that the Tampa Bay game and Buffalo Bills games are huge. If we win both of those the world is our oyster in the AFC.

Only 12 would be disappointing.
We get to 12 by beating
Jets 1-7
Jets 1-7
Giants 2-6
Ravens 2-5
Dolphins 2-6
Bengals 3-5.

To be ONLY 12 wins we would either have to lose one if those, very disappointing of get swept by

Atlanta, Buffalo and Tampa.

If this team plays to the level it’s been at we aren’t losing to any of the slugs and should take 2/3 from the others.


That doesn’t mean the season is a disappointment if we are 12-5 but it means we took a step back from where it feels we are right now.

We will probably be favored in every game except Tampa on the road, and that will be a small spread within the HFA adjustment.

 

[PScottman]

There are like, maybe 2 teams that have coverage linebackers that good.

Agree. Safeties and CBs cover TEs in man - you'll only see LBs on them in zone looks or at the goal line.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I strongly recommend Evan Lazar's "After Further Review" article, especially this explanation of how the Patriots' run defense is being built. I now think that I understand why Spillane is so important to the Patriots' defense:

After Further Review: Breaking Down Patriots QB Drake Maye, LT Will Campbell and the Run Defense in Win Over Browns

Breaking down the tape from Sunday's home win over the Browns, where the Patriots offense and QB Drake Maye aced their toughest exam yet.

www.patriots.com

"On paper, it didn't seem likely that the Browns would beat the Patriots in the passing game. Instead, the path for Cleveland was a great defensive performance supplemented by a strong rushing attack, which is what they got in the Browns 31-6 win over Miami in Week 7.​

​

On Sunday, the Patriots became the first defense to go eight games without allowing a 50-plus yard rusher since 1950, holding Browns rookie RB Quinshon Judkins to 19 yards on nine attempts. As a team, Cleveland only had a 29% success rate on the ground (22nd percentile), with a 31-yard jet sweep propping up their averages. Heading into Week 8, Judkins ranked third in the NFL in rushing yards after contact (420) and had produced 21 forced missed tackles (tied for eighth among RBs). By taking out the run game, rookie QB Dillon Gabriel was forced to drop back 37 times, which wasn't a winning formula for Cleveland.​

​

Schematically, the fun part is how the Patriots are fitting the run in their new system under head coach Mike Vrabel. New England used to run a two-gapping system that prioritized setting or "boxing" the edges, meaning the edge defenders funneled the ball back inside to the run-stuffers. The old mantra was "no edge, no chance."​

​

Under Vrabel, the Patriots have different front mechanics, where they want to "spill" the ball to the outside rather than force it back inside. New England often uses "lever-spill-lever" run fits. In these schemes, the edges actually crash down inside, as does the play-side linebacker to "splatter" the second puller, while the safety is the "force" who sets the edge of the defense, allowing the MIKE to fly free to the ball carrier."​

 

[Lambeau12]

Congratulations for the win last night in pitt, it was great to see rogers lose

Thank you!

 

[mayoclinic]

“More than keeping up” would = doing better.

Jones 71.2% complete 2062 pass yds 13 TD 8.5 YPA 109.5 passer rating 86 rushing yard

Maye 75.2%. 2926 pass yards. 15 TD. 9.0 YPA. 118.7 rating 250 rushing yds

I don’t see any “more than”

I’d also say having the leading rusher in the NFL in attempts, yards and TDs with a 5.9 ypc is more than slightly better.

Where do you get "2926" from? Typo, I assume. Maye has 2026 passing yards through 8 games.

Maye has better stats, but not quite so exaggerated a difference.

 

[Ring 6]

Where do you get "2926" from? Typo, I assume. Maye has 2026 passing yards through 8 games.

Maye has better stats, but not quite so exaggerated a difference.

Yes 2026.

 

[dliverey44]

I strongly recommend Evan Lazar's "After Further Review" article, especially this explanation of how the Patriots' run defense is being built. I now think that I understand why Spillane is so important to the Patriots' defense:

After Further Review: Breaking Down Patriots QB Drake Maye, LT Will Campbell and the Run Defense in Win Over Browns

Breaking down the tape from Sunday's home win over the Browns, where the Patriots offense and QB Drake Maye aced their toughest exam yet.

www.patriots.com

"On paper, it didn't seem likely that the Browns would beat the Patriots in the passing game. Instead, the path for Cleveland was a great defensive performance supplemented by a strong rushing attack, which is what they got in the Browns 31-6 win over Miami in Week 7.​

​

On Sunday, the Patriots became the first defense to go eight games without allowing a 50-plus yard rusher since 1950, holding Browns rookie RB Quinshon Judkins to 19 yards on nine attempts. As a team, Cleveland only had a 29% success rate on the ground (22nd percentile), with a 31-yard jet sweep propping up their averages. Heading into Week 8, Judkins ranked third in the NFL in rushing yards after contact (420) and had produced 21 forced missed tackles (tied for eighth among RBs). By taking out the run game, rookie QB Dillon Gabriel was forced to drop back 37 times, which wasn't a winning formula for Cleveland.​

​

Schematically, the fun part is how the Patriots are fitting the run in their new system under head coach Mike Vrabel. New England used to run a two-gapping system that prioritized setting or "boxing" the edges, meaning the edge defenders funneled the ball back inside to the run-stuffers. The old mantra was "no edge, no chance."​

​

Under Vrabel, the Patriots have different front mechanics, where they want to "spill" the ball to the outside rather than force it back inside. New England often uses "lever-spill-lever" run fits. In these schemes, the edges actually crash down inside, as does the play-side linebacker to "splatter" the second puller, while the safety is the "force" who sets the edge of the defense, allowing the MIKE to fly free to the ball carrier."​

This would explain why they want their safeties to be more fleet a foot so they can get sideline to sideline

 

[borg]

NFL Network Schedule | NFL.com

 

[Patsfan1645]

I was just looking back at the stats from the game and saw that Mason Graham had no stats for the game. I confirmed he did in fact play and so I looked at his stats for the year and see has hasnt done much of anything. I was high on him as were others leading up to the draft. The 5th overall pick right now is not looking good at all, glad we dodged that bullet.

 

[slam]

It only just occurred to me today that the Diggs TD was what the Seahawks was trying to do at the end of the Super Bowl.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Have you watched the Belichick defenses over the years even when they were top offenses? They consistently lost to weak offenses on opening drives. Why? Because Belichick liked to start the game with softer vanilla defenses so he could see what opposing offenses were trying to do so he could make the proper adjustments. I knew he was doing, was always maddening to me that he called defenses like this.

Even more annoying, when he was going up against a QB for the first time, he would do it for much of the game.

 

[PP2]

I strongly recommend Evan Lazar's "After Further Review" article, especially this explanation of how the Patriots' run defense is being built. I now think that I understand why Spillane is so important to the Patriots' defense:

After Further Review: Breaking Down Patriots QB Drake Maye, LT Will Campbell and the Run Defense in Win Over Browns

Breaking down the tape from Sunday's home win over the Browns, where the Patriots offense and QB Drake Maye aced their toughest exam yet.

www.patriots.com

"On paper, it didn't seem likely that the Browns would beat the Patriots in the passing game. Instead, the path for Cleveland was a great defensive performance supplemented by a strong rushing attack, which is what they got in the Browns 31-6 win over Miami in Week 7.​

​

On Sunday, the Patriots became the first defense to go eight games without allowing a 50-plus yard rusher since 1950, holding Browns rookie RB Quinshon Judkins to 19 yards on nine attempts. As a team, Cleveland only had a 29% success rate on the ground (22nd percentile), with a 31-yard jet sweep propping up their averages. Heading into Week 8, Judkins ranked third in the NFL in rushing yards after contact (420) and had produced 21 forced missed tackles (tied for eighth among RBs). By taking out the run game, rookie QB Dillon Gabriel was forced to drop back 37 times, which wasn't a winning formula for Cleveland.​

​

Schematically, the fun part is how the Patriots are fitting the run in their new system under head coach Mike Vrabel. New England used to run a two-gapping system that prioritized setting or "boxing" the edges, meaning the edge defenders funneled the ball back inside to the run-stuffers. The old mantra was "no edge, no chance."​

​

Under Vrabel, the Patriots have different front mechanics, where they want to "spill" the ball to the outside rather than force it back inside. New England often uses "lever-spill-lever" run fits. In these schemes, the edges actually crash down inside, as does the play-side linebacker to "splatter" the second puller, while the safety is the "force" who sets the edge of the defense, allowing the MIKE to fly free to the ball carrier."​

Lazar's AFRs are one of my favorite things to look forward to, post-game.

In the GDT I mentioned that Campbell was having trouble handing Garrett coming off chips. To me it felt like the chips were throwing Campbell's timing off but I couldn't diagnose why. Lazar diagnoses that Campbell made the mistake of sitting back instead of closing the space on the chips so Garrett doesn't have time to rebuild momentum.

Lazar and Kyles are my two go-to's. Everyone else is a distant second and there's trash like Volin that I wouldn't even touch with a ten foot pole.

 

[mayoclinic]

Lazar's AFRs are one of my favorite things to look forward to, post-game.

In the GDT I mentioned that Campbell was having trouble handing Garrett coming off chips. To me it felt like the chips were throwing Campbell's timing off but I couldn't diagnose why. Lazar diagnoses that Campbell made the mistake of sitting back instead of closing the space on the chips so Garrett doesn't have time to rebuild momentum.

Lazar and Kyles are my two go-to's. Everyone else is a distant second and there's trash like Volin that I wouldn't even touch with a ten foot pole.

PP2, thanks for posting this, hadn't read it. I think it deserves it's own thread. Really great analysis.

Also, you are very brave to get within 10 feet of Volin. I'd want a level 4 hazmat suit before coming anywhere near that close.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Lazar's AFRs are one of my favorite things to look forward to, post-game.

In the GDT I mentioned that Campbell was having trouble handing Garrett coming off chips. To me it felt like the chips were throwing Campbell's timing off but I couldn't diagnose why. Lazar diagnoses that Campbell made the mistake of sitting back instead of closing the space on the chips so Garrett doesn't have time to rebuild momentum.

Lazar and Kyles are my two go-to's. Everyone else is a distant second and there's trash like Volin that I wouldn't even touch with a ten foot pole.

He reiterates a lot of it on the Catch-22 podcast, which I like a lot.

 

[Diffs4]

All 22 Rookie Report VS Browns


Joshua Farmer-20 plays on defense and pretty invisible. He is a power guy but lacks quickness so is a waste on pass rush and 14 of his 20 plays were on passes. He holds up well on run plays as appears to have good strength. Seems like a run defending DL and think he could do that well but as a pass rusher he's below average as of today. Rotational depth piece and hope for growth.

Love your break downs but think you are being a little harsh on Joshua Farmer. He is a run stopper first and foremost and that is what he is being used as quite effectively in my opinion. Of his 21 snaps, 12 were on first and 10, over half his snaps. Two others were short yardage situations, 3rd and 3 and 2nd and 3. He was on the field for only 2 plays you would consider to be an obvious passing situation, two second and ten's. The other 5 snaps were six yards to go which is either pass or run. You are correct that passes were thrown on 14 of his 20 snaps, but that was not expected based on the downs and distances that he was on the field for. Most defensive tackles that play on first down, other than the special ones, are not great pass rushers. I thought he was fine and the defense was excellent overall.

 

[KCSVEN]

Love your break downs but think you are being a little harsh on Joshua Farmer. He is a run stopper first and foremost and that is what he is being used as quite effectively in my opinion. Of his 21 snaps, 12 were on first and 10, over half his snaps. Two others were short yardage situations, 3rd and 3 and 2nd and 3. He was on the field for only 2 plays you would consider to be an obvious passing situation, two second and ten's. The other 5 snaps were six yards to go which is either pass or run. You are correct that passes were thrown on 14 of his 20 snaps, but that was not expected based on the downs and distances that he was on the field for. Most defensive tackles that play on first down, other than the special ones, are not great pass rushers. I thought he was fine and the defense was excellent overall.

I don't know, Maybe? Maybe that's what he IS in reality but it's not what scouting reports I read said about him. I'm going with the assumption he's not just a run stuffing DL based on the scouting reports. Maybe they were wrong but think the fact you think he's just a run stuffer kind of agrees with my thought he's a below average pass rusher at this point. You can watch any other lineman for the Pats and they all flashed here and there where Farmer didn't really do much of anything.

Couple of different scouting reports:

While the inconsistency in his game is frustrating, many of his technical deficiencies appear correctable with proper NFL coaching. His struggles against double teams and zone schemes will limit his early-down value initially, but his pass-rushing upside makes him an intriguing sub-package player from day one. Teams running aggressive 4-3 schemes that prioritize penetration over gap control will see the most value

Using his pass-rush knowledge and lateral quickness to cause more havoc along the interior of offensive lines, he racked up 80 tackles, 21 tackles for loss, and 11 sacks throughout his career.

 

[Mike the Brit]

@Ian I knew there was something missing from my life. Have you had a chance to post the snap counts for last week?

 

[Ian]

@Ian I knew there was something missing from my life. Have you had a chance to post the snap counts for last week?

Not yet. Visiting family this week and I atempted it but only got about halfway through. Flying back tomorrow morning and hoping to have that one done tomorrow night, and then today's on Tuesday. Thought I'd be able to pull it off but man...it's tougher to do on my laptop than I thought.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Not yet. Visiting family this week and I atempted it but only got about halfway through. Flying back tomorrow morning and hoping to have that one done tomorrow night, and then today's on Tuesday. Thought I'd be able to pull it off but man...it's tougher to do on my laptop than I thought.

No worries, boss. Just take it as a sign of how grateful I am (we all are!) for your efforts. Go Pats!