Patriots Trading up?

[mayoclinic]

No, my bad. I usually have ignored anything on Raji as I really figure that unless Wilfork is going to be gone, and is traded away on draft weekend, Raji is off the draft board.

I like the idea of a guy to spell Wilfork and work into 4-3 type of sets, beyond Wright, but simlar to my opinions on drafting Hood or Jackson in round one, I think the wiser course is to go later in the draft. I think Sam Hill would be a good option.

I've had Sammie Lee Hill in several of my mocks as early as the 3rd round. I also like Chris Baker, though he has character issues. But for maximum disruption I would go with Raji in a heartbeat if he fell anywhere near us. I think his value would increase with moving him around in different sets and schemes.

While a pure pass rusher is a need, I think someone like Raji could have a bigger overall impact on the defense. If I had to pick one player from Baltimore to take on the Pats it wouldn't be Terrell Suggs or Ed Reed, it would be Haloti Ngata. What someone like BB could do with an athletic DL of that size and caliber would be unreal. That's what I hope Raji could be.

 

[14thDragon]

I've had Sammie Lee Hill in several of my mocks as early as the 3rd round. I also like Chris Baker, though he has character issues. But for maximum disruption I would go with Raji in a heartbeat if he fell anywhere near us. I think his value would increase with moving him around in different sets and schemes.

While a pure pass rusher is a need, I think someone like Raji could have a bigger overall impact on the defense. If I had to pick one player from Baltimore to take on the Pats it wouldn't be Terrell Suggs or Ed Reed, it would be Haloti Ngata. What someone like BB could do with an athletic DL of that size and caliber would be unreal. That's what I hope Raji could be.

It is possible. I do not see it as the best option. I like the idea of getting push inside, but with the personel currently on the team, I think generating that pressure is best from another athletic ILB. The key is going to be what will happen with Wilfork and Seymour. If they cannot be resigned then going DT is not a bad idea, but it would be an unfortunate.

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's an interesting NT sleeper pick:

NFL Draft Sleeper Profile: Western Ontario DT Vaughn Martin | Bleacher Report

Very raw 6'3" 327# kid from Canada who runs a 5.04 40. Might be a good 7th round/UDFA target.

 

[WhiZa]

Here's an interesting NT sleeper pick:

NFL Draft Sleeper Profile: Western Ontario DT Vaughn Martin | Bleacher Report

Very raw 6'3" 327# kid from Canada who runs a 5.04 40. Might be a good 7th round/UDFA target.

With those numbers someone should definitely give him a shot.

Sometimes it's easy to forget about these international prospects.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Hmmm. Imagine Wilfork and Raji playing together as DTs in a 4-3.

Sure it would great, but I highly doubt the Pats move to a 4-3. However, imagine if they trade for Peppers, draft Raji and switch to a 4-3?

I could see a lineup like this: DE Seymour DT Raji DT Wilfork DE Peppers

Good luck blocking that.

$40 million garaunteed? No problem!

You'll see.

I'll get you an emesis basin. Personally, I'll dance in the streets if we get Raji (especially if we still get a good pass rusher as well). Aside from Wilfork not be signed long term (which I very much hope will happen, but is a non-trivial deal). I think what BB could do with both Wilfork and Raji would be unbelievable, and would have more value to the overall performance of the defense than any other option, including a pass rusher.

Thanks man. Seriously, I'm not questioning the talent of Raji because he's seems like an impact player for a defense that needs a DT. However, I see no reason on drafting a DT if the Pats intend on re-signing Wilfork. Sometimes you can't keep drafting "best available player" if their not going to see the field very much. With that said, I will be extremely surprised if they trade up to draft Raji.

 

[14thDragon]

Here's an interesting NT sleeper pick:

NFL Draft Sleeper Profile: Western Ontario DT Vaughn Martin | Bleacher Report

Very raw 6'3" 327# kid from Canada who runs a 5.04 40. Might be a good 7th round/UDFA target.

I'd have him on speed dial and call him the moment RD 7 is over.

 

[cstjohn17]

I was watching Patriots Today on Patriots.com and Nick Caserio said that with all the picks New England has they have the amunition to trade up and get that player that they really want. Who do you think this player is if the Pats trade Up if at all? Raji, Orakpo, Oher?

Counter intuitive but if Crabtree or Maclin slide into the 15-18 range I could see the Pats moving up.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Here's an interesting NT sleeper pick:

NFL Draft Sleeper Profile: Western Ontario DT Vaughn Martin | Bleacher Report

Very raw 6'3" 327# kid from Canada who runs a 5.04 40. Might be a good 7th round/UDFA target.

Maybe.
Me, I'd be concerened about all the resulting team confusion from the crazy Snowback way of spelling.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Here's an interesting NT sleeper pick:

NFL Draft Sleeper Profile: Western Ontario DT Vaughn Martin | Bleacher Report

Very raw 6'3" 327# kid from Canada who runs a 5.04 40. Might be a good 7th round/UDFA target.

I have seen this guy play a lot up here and while he does have the ability to dominate against sub par competition when he got to the Bowl Games he disappeared. He does have the size and speed for the NFL but he is a very arrogant SOB in many peoples eyes who have dealt with him. When I am watching Canadian University football you had better dominate the competition and be notice on a lot of plays. When I watch Western games he was alright but I did not think NFL level but who knows. Jamal Lee is a different story though.

Here is a link to a CIS Messageboard with a article on Vaughn.

CIS underclassman chases NFL spot - cisfootball.org

 

[mayoclinic]

I have seen this guy play a lot up here and while he does have the ability to dominate against sub par competition when he got to the Bowl Games he disappeared. He does have the size and speed for the NFL but he is a very arrogant SOB in many peoples eyes who have dealt with him. When I am watching Canadian University football you had better dominate the competition and be notice on a lot of plays. When I watch Western games he was alright but I did not think NFL level but who knows. Jamal Lee is a different story though.

Here is a link to a CIS Messageboard with a article on Vaughn.

CIS underclassman chases NFL spot - cisfootball.org

Thanks for the input. I've obviously never seen him. The combination of arrogance and disappearing in big games/against better competition doesn't sound terribly good. Too bad.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Counter intuitive but if Crabtree or Maclin slide into the 15-18 range I could see the Pats moving up.

Gotta admit that it'd be hard to see the Patriots use their draft resource pool to move into the lower teens to grab a WR. Anything other than defenders and/or OL's in the first 2 rounds will have me at least somewhat surprised... unless the pick is an obvious too good to pass up no brainer type.

 

[cstjohn17]

Gotta admit that it'd be hard to see the Patriots use their draft resource pool to move into the lower teens to grab a WR. Anything other than defenders and/or OL's in the first 2 rounds will have me at least somewhat surprised... unless the pick is an obvious too good to pass up no brainer type.

Ahh my young friend, the Patriots haven't made a pick that made sense (to us experts) since Vince Wilfork.

 

[DW Toys]

I'm sorry, the reason why the Pats haven't been able to win a super bowl for the last 4 years is because they have lacked impact players at the LB, CB and S position. Sometimes, you can't keep drafting "best available" and have to bite the bullet and take a player based on "need". If the Pats fail to upgrade their pass rush, they will once again miss out on the Lombardi trophy.



I have no idea what we will do draft day but I do agree with you on this. We can trade up if BB wants but I hope we get 2 SOLID players on defense this year with our picks. We have a great chance to upgrade both LB and DB.
Throw in a solid OL and I think this would be a great draft for us.

If you listen to the talking heads, the BPA is the cry for all good teams. I think that is bogus. Every team looks at their needs prior to the draft. They TELL you that "so and so" was the BPA but they had the guy hiding out on their board for a reason. Don't you think they have a contingency if a guy like Curry or Raji drops slips down to a certain picks, that it triggers an up-trade
attempt?

Reading the tid bits of information and not that I agree with the picks, the Pats have invested time and resources (smoke?) on the following players:
Merridith OT South Carolina, has been visited more than once. Dante went down to work him out privately. He is listed as an OT, but the Pats will look at him as a G who can play OT in a pinch. Reiss suspects they are going Guard not Tackle as Logan and Neal are in their last contract year. Put him down as a lock in round two (again, not my choice). He is my only thought of a lock because we know he will be available at #34.

I love Dalmas but I think the Pats have other ideas. The other picks that have been resourced heavily are SS William Moore, OLB Jason X. Williams (I suspect he might actually be an SS project with 4.46 speed for an LB!) Eric Wood (fall back on Merridith) and a DL pick of Hood or Ayers. Now Ayers spikes interest. I don't see him available at #23 with his pass rush ability being perhaps the top in the draft for a DL. Maybe they see a pick going #14 (too early for Ayers but Maualuga?) from the pick starved Saints. I think Ayers becomes an OLB/DE hybrid. Perhaps they go to #20 from the Lions for Ayers?

The mystery in Conn. is Butler....or Donald Brown, but there could be Cody Brown OLB/DE between the third and fifth. Maybe on Cody but I don't think BB travels to view fifth rounders. I know this is blaspheme on this site, but if they go Donald Brown to learn under Taylor, Faulk or Morris for a year because they are all over 30, Maroney is gone. 750kCAP loss or not he will be traded for a pick. Butler? Interesting. He might have the best pure skill of any DB in the draft but considered less competition (this ain't the Yankeee Conference Mel!). With the addition of Bodden and Springs and at least one or both of last years CB picks "un-busting", maybe Hobbs will be shopped? (Miguel is this his last year under contract?).We know Bodden has only a one year. Maybe they groom Butler as a true shut-dowm CB in the Champ Bailey mold. Prime Time Sanders believes so. He should be there at #23 or even #34(?).

I am sure in the event Andre Brown slips down the board to a certain pick, the Pats will up-trade on the advise BB gets from Nick Saban.

After all this I would rather see them trade down to say Seattle for our #23 for their #37 and #68. The Seahawks need a OT badly so they go Monroe or Smith from Baylor, but a RB or OLB are needed as bad. They could use our #23 for Wells or Moreno at RB or Cushing or Matthews (even English) to take Petersons place.
Those picks we get back are in our "sweet spot".
Think #34,#37,#47, #58,# 68,#89,#97 and #120. 8 picks in the top 120 (not including #170,#199,#207,#234). Project 4 potential starters of that mix and it would be a successful draft.

So I say trade down.
DW Toys

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Thanks for the input. I've obviously never seen him. The combination of arrogance and disappearing in big games/against better competition doesn't sound terribly good. Too bad.

Chris Baker as you and I have said before I think would be a great pickup in the third with our comp pick. Martin I first noticed two years ago when the announcers were talking him up so much because of his size and speed. That is where I started to watch him closely and really was not very impressed and though he should be more dominate. The had him playing at end when I saw him at over 300lbs. In Canadian football unless a team is playing a 3-4-5 the DE are fast and athletic not Vaughn Martin's size, I would have put him in a three tech to better use his abilities I said to myself after watching that game.

In Canada we are divided into 4 conferences (Atlantic, Quebec, Ontario and the West). Each division has around 4-6 teams with the Ont conference having 10 teams. Some of his competition are weak teams and he still did not dominate enough to be named an All Canadian or win the JP Metras which is the lineman of the Country. Other then raw potential I really do not see us giving this guy a shot IMO.

Here is another link on the kid.

Canadian Interuniversity Sport

 

[mayoclinic]

Ahh my young friend, the Patriots haven't made a pick that made sense (to us experts) since Vince Wilfork.

Really? Safety at 24 in 2007 was considered a very likely possibility, with Meriweather the most likely 1st round safety to still be available. It was mainly a question of which one the Pats liked better between Meriweather, Nelson and Griffin, and which ones would last.

And Mayo in 2008 certainly made sense. ILB was a major need, and Mayo was considered a top-15 talent. I'll grant you that Ben Watson and Logan Mankins were surprises, but those are really the only major first round ones in the BB era. Dan Graham and Ty Warren were players the Pats were rumored to love. And Seymour in 2001 was really only surprising because we didn't know Belichick very well - for him to take a WR at #6 over a top 3-4 DE, that would truly have been surprising.

 

[TriplecHamp]

If you listen to the talking heads, the BPA is the cry for all good teams. I think that is bogus. Every team looks at their needs prior to the draft. They TELL you that "so and so" was the BPA but they had the guy hiding out on their board for a reason. Don't you think they have a contingency if a guy like Curry or Raji drops slips down to a certain picks, that it triggers an up-trade
attempt?

Reading the tid bits of information and not that I agree with the picks, the Pats have invested time and resources (smoke?) on the following players:
Merridith OT South Carolina, has been visited more than once. Dante went down to work him out privately. He is listed as an OT, but the Pats will look at him as a G who can play OT in a pinch. Reiss suspects they are going Guard not Tackle as Logan and Neal are in their last contract year. Put him down as a lock in round two (again, not my choice). He is my only thought of a lock because we know he will be available at #34.

I love Dalmas but I think the Pats have other ideas. The other picks that have been resourced heavily are SS William Moore, OLB Jason X. Williams (I suspect he might actually be an SS project with 4.46 speed for an LB!) Eric Wood (fall back on Merridith) and a DL pick of Hood or Ayers. Now Ayers spikes interest. I don't see him available at #23 with his pass rush ability being perhaps the top in the draft for a DL. Maybe they see a pick going #14 (too early for Ayers but Maualuga?) from the pick starved Saints. I think Ayers becomes an OLB/DE hybrid. Perhaps they go to #20 from the Lions for Ayers?

The mystery in Conn. is Butler....or Donald Brown, but there could be Cody Brown OLB/DE between the third and fifth. Maybe on Cody but I don't think BB travels to view fifth rounders. I know this is blaspheme on this site, but if they go Donald Brown to learn under Taylor, Faulk or Morris for a year because they are all over 30, Maroney is gone. 750kCAP loss or not he will be traded for a pick. Butler? Interesting. He might have the best pure skill of any DB in the draft but considered less competition (this ain't the Yankeee Conference Mel!). With the addition of Bodden and Springs and at least one or both of last years CB picks "un-busting", maybe Hobbs will be shopped? (Miguel is this his last year under contract?).We know Bodden has only a one year. Maybe they groom Butler as a true shut-dowm CB in the Champ Bailey mold. Prime Time Sanders believes so. He should be there at #23 or even #34(?).

I am sure in the event Andre Brown slips down the board to a certain pick, the Pats will up-trade on the advise BB gets from Nick Saban.

After all this I would rather see them trade down to say Seattle for our #23 for their #37 and #68. The Seahawks need a OT badly so they go Monroe or Smith from Baylor, but a RB or OLB are needed as bad. They could use our #23 for Wells or Moreno at RB or Cushing or Matthews (even English) to take Petersons place.
Those picks we get back are in our "sweet spot".
Think #34,#37,#47, #58,# 68,#89,#97 and #120. 8 picks in the top 120 (not including #170,#199,#207,#234). Project 4 potential starters of that mix and it would be a successful draft.

So I say trade down.
DW Toys

Why would we add more picks to a draft in which we own 11 picks? BB has said that its a stretch to ask 11 rookies to this team. Either Trade up or Trade into next year but dont trade back from our highest pick. I think we would grab Knowshon if he was the best player on the board and we felt like the value at OLB, DE, or Corner wasnt around.

 

[Maroney TD]

Really? Safety at 24 in 2007 was considered a very likely possibility, with Meriweather the most likely 1st round safety to still be available. It was mainly a question of which one the Pats liked better between Meriweather, Nelson and Griffin, and which ones would last.

And Mayo in 2008 certainly made sense. ILB was a major need, and Mayo was considered a top-15 talent. I'll grant you that Ben Watson and Logan Mankins were surprises, but those are really the only major first round ones in the BB era. Dan Graham and Ty Warren were players the Pats were rumored to love. And Seymour in 2001 was really only surprising because we didn't know Belichick very well - for him to take a WR at #6 over a top 3-4 DE, that would truly have been surprising.

I remember when Meriweather was drafted a lot of people were surprised because before the draft people were saying he wasn't a Patriots type player because of the off the field issues.

 

[mayoclinic]

I remember when Meriweather was drafted a lot of people were surprised because before the draft people were saying he wasn't a Patriots type player because of the off the field issues.

Those were valid concerns. But the Pats brought him in and presumably vetted him in detail about his incidents. So far, they haven't been an issue.

I don't think the Pats are afraid to take a player with some issues or history as long as they do diligence and don't feel those will be a recurrent problem. We're not drafting choirboys, after all.

 

[cstjohn17]

Those were valid concerns. But the Pats brought him in and presumably vetted him in detail about his incidents. So far, they haven't been an issue.

I don't think the Pats are afraid to take a player with some issues or history as long as they do diligence and don't feel those will be a recurrent problem. We're not drafting choirboys, after all.

I was more concerned that he was the 4th Safety taken in round 1, was undersized and possessed average speed. 4 Safeties in round 1, seemed like a reach at the time. Merriweather turned it up a notch last year hopefully he can continue to get better.

 

[Synovia]

I'd have him on speed dial and call him the moment RD 7 is over.

If you like him, you draft him in the 7th.


7th round players end up cheaper than UDFAs.