Patriots Trading up?

[mayoclinic]

If they trade up for Raji, I will throw up. I could understand if the Pats were running a 4-3 and needed an upgrade at DT, but they don't. They already have Wilfork and they will have no problem re-signing him if next year is uncapped. Seriously, if drafted by the Pats, what impact does Raji make this season? I'm sorry, the reason why the Pats haven't been able to win a super bowl for the last 4 years is because they have lacked impact players at the LB, CB and S position. Sometimes, you can't keep drafting "best available" and have to bite the bullet and take a player based on "need". If the Pats fail to upgrade their pass rush, they will once again miss out on the Lombardi trophy.

I'll get you an emesis basin. Personally, I'll dance in the streets if we get Raji (especially if we still get a good pass rusher as well). Aside from Wilfork not be signed long term (which I very much hope will happen, but is a non-trivial deal). I think what BB could do with both Wilfork and Raji would be unbelievable, and would have more value to the overall performance of the defense than any other option, including a pass rusher.

 

[jefmblrd]

I can see it happening in a case like last year with Mayo if BB sees a player who warrants it. Otherwise, from what I've read and heard, there is going to be strong value in the second round of this draft, so I see them taking at least two picks there. I wouldn't be surprised to see them trade one of their seconds for a higher pick next year however.

 

[14thDragon]

I'll get you an emesis basin. Personally, I'll dance in the streets if we get Raji (especially if we still get a good pass rusher as well). Aside from Wilfork not be signed long term (which I very much hope will happen, but is a non-trivial deal). I think what BB could do with both Wilfork and Raji would be unbelievable, and would have more value to the overall performance of the defense than any other option, including a pass rusher.

If you do not mind me asking, what exactly would BB do with both Wilfork and Raji that would be so amazing? Are you envisioning some sort of NT rotation or are you projecting a transition to 4-3 and then who would be playing DE? I do not think Warren and Seymour are well suited for 4-3 DE status.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

There isn't a glaring talent gap among players past the first 6-8 (not counting the QB's which i assume we have no interest in) so I'd guess "moving up" would mean a few spots to nail someone they want who's come close enough to go after instead of waiting, as opposed to a major move for Curry or Crabtree.

My bet would be on Matthews or Cushing sliding into the high teens and BB shipping our first rounder and last 2nd to cover the move to nab one of them. Matthews, probably smarter than any other high end LB and with more upside to go with a ridiculous pedigree(father, uncle, granddad all pro football players with 18 probowls between them) would be like getting Bruschi and Vrabel repackaged as one new player. If he's as good as I think then what a rebuilding job BB would have done on the supposedly critical mass LB Patriot's LB corps. Imagine if Crable can be a third down force what a young bunch of studs we'd have for the second half of Brady's SB runs.

 

[BPF]

I'm not sure I'd trade up for a guy to sit on the bench

Understand that but at this point in his career Springs is a year-to-year player, Bodden is only signed for 1 yr and Jenkins is compared by many scouts to Springs both in his style of play and versatility. Jenkins can play CB and S and as BB says you can never have enough DBs.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Curry! Oh, I wish!

Don't Stop Believing...

 

[Warren94]

Raji is over-hyped iMO. He is over-rated. ok flame away

 

[mayoclinic]

If you do not mind me asking, what exactly would BB do with both Wilfork and Raji that would be so amazing? Are you envisioning some sort of NT rotation or are you projecting a transition to 4-3 and then who would be playing DE? I do not think Warren and Seymour are well suited for 4-3 DE status.

Sorry, I thought my views on Raji have been well enough documented to not require further explanation. See http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/209694-bj-raji-hypothetical.html.

As I said over 2 months ago, "Raji is a major disruptor against both the run and the pass. He blows up plays, and has excellent penetrating ability for a man his size. Pairing Raji and Wilfork would create an 'unbreakable wall' kind of like what the 2000 Ravens had with Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams. I could see BB using a lot of this situationally along with a base 3-4 set. In the base 3-4 he could spell Wilfork, provide injury insurance, and keep both of them fresh. Plus it would give us insurance if we couldn't resign Wilfork after 2009. We might also be able to use him at DE the way Baltimore has used 340# Haloti Ngata. Raji seems to have demonstrated almost Ngata-like athleticism this week."

I would see BB moving Raji around - sometimes using him to spell Wilfork or instead of Wilfork to get more of a penetrating DT, sometimes using him along with Wilfork running different variations of a 4-3, sometimes moving him outside to DE. I think that moving Raji around and using him in different formations and schemes would maximize his best asset, which is as a disruptor. It would keep a lot of offenses off balance.

Baltimore won the SB in 2000 with a "big" 4-3 scheme using Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams at DT. No one could run against their defense. Even today they tend to run a big 4-3 with Haloti Ngata and Kelly Gregg inside and 290# Trevor Price and 270# Jarrett Johnson outside. That's not exactly the same kind of 4-3 as the Colts. They've also moved Ngata to NT (especially with Gregg injured) and moved him outside to DE because of his extraordinary athleticism.

I could see doing much of the same with Raji. I could see plays where Raji and Wilfork were both inside and Seymour and Warren outside in a big 4-3. I could see plays where Adalius Thomas (or Jason Taylor or Julius Peppers, if we got them) moved up to DE to provide more pass rush, with Warren or Seymour playing the other end. I could see plays where Wilfork stayed inside and Raji moved outside to replace one of Warren or Seymour. And that's not counting the value of resting your DTs and of insurance in case of injury or not being able to extend both Seymour and Wilfork.

Anyway, that's my view, sane or not.

 

[Warren94]

I just don't think he shows up against lesser opponents. He has maturity issues and I wouldn't mind having him but he would need a good kick in the arse.

 

[JSn]

Reiss hears Raji might be slipping out of the first round.

Also, that they may be targeting Darius Butler.

He'll be a guiding Light - The Boston Globe

 

[mayoclinic]

Reiss hears Raji might be slipping out of the first round.

Also, that they may be targeting Darius Butler.

He'll be a guiding Light - The Boston Globe

I don't see either one. I'm not sure what his source is for Raji falling out of the 1st. Falling to 23 would be fine by me. And just because BB went to Connecticut's pro day doesn't mean he's specifically targetting Butler. He could be targetting Beatty or Brown. He sometimes goes to pro days in New England - I may be wrong, but I think he went to Brown's pro day in 2007 when Zak DeOssie came out, sparking a lot of "DeOssie to the Pats" rumors. Some suggested we might take DeOssie at #28.

Imagine that. Taking an inexperienced 6'4" 250 lb. LB with nice intelligence, intangibles and athleticism, in the 1st round. Thank god we've moved beyond that.

 

[CoachK]

I read the book. I agree with the other guy.

Oher has issues, but none that will keep him from being a great player as long as the team knows what he needs, and NE will.

I am not concerned about him on the field, I am concerned about his ability to survive off the field with all those $$. I give him all the credit in the world for overcoming his roots, but his life skills may need a lot of work.

 

[DW Toys]

I used the draft calc to come up with these:

simple up trade: #23 + #124 = #20


Very complex series of 3 trades:

--- #23 + #58 to Cards for: #31, #63, #95

--- then #89 + #95 + #124 to Viks for #54

--- then #31 + #63 and our 6th (about 202) to the Browns for #36 and #50

final picks in top 100: 34, 36, 47, 50, 54, 97; why? Avoid 1st round salary issues, and hit the 2nd round which is full of value with 5 picks.

This might be easier Cousin. Swap our #23 and our #124 to the Lions for their #33 in round two and their #65 (which is like the last choice in round two if your an optimist) the first pick of round three. If gives the Lions three first rounders and they still maintain #82 from the Cowboys. They pick up a forth rounder they do not have this year.

We get #33,#34,#47,#58,#65,#89,#97 in the first 100 of the draft or 7% of all the picks in the top 100. This is more than double the picks of a team in the first 100. The numbers do not exactly match but to get three ones (which the Lions can use) it would be a go.

Now I go for OLB, S, ILB, DL, G, WR, TE not necessarily in that order.
DW Toys

 

[BPF]

Reiss hears Raji might be slipping out of the first round.

Also, that they may be targeting Darius Butler.

He'll be a guiding Light - The Boston Globe

You know what that means: (1.) Some team is the top 15 hopes he slides and doesn't get picked in the top 5 so they can have a shot at him. (2.) The Pats are targeting Butler, right, just like they were targeting Gholston last year.

 

[mayoclinic]

You know what that means: (1.) Some team is the top 15 hopes he slides and doesn't get picked in the top 5 so they can have a shot at him. (2.) The Pats are targeting Butler, right, just like they were targeting Gholston last year.

Bingo. I smell smokescreen. Maybe Parcells will trade up ahead of the Pats to steal Butler away from us. Unlikely, since he's not as gullible as Mangini.

Seriously, whoever the Pats end up falling in love with between now and April 25, I think they will be extremely quiet about that prospect. I doubt we will hear nary a peep. Most of these guys have been marketed and dissected up the wazzoo. If it becomes public knowledge that the Pats are totally enamored of a prospect, I would immediately drop them at least half a notch in my likely projection.

It's poker season now.

 

[Bring Back Antowain!]

I agree 100%. I only see moving up from 23 if one or two specific players that BB covets fall to within reach and are certain to be gone at 23. Otherwise, moving up from 47 or 58 offers much more value.

Very much agreed.

However, I go back to the case of Ty Warren in 2003. The Patriots probably could have gotten him where they were but opted to trade up one spot to virtually guarantee that they get him.

Could be a similar situation if there is a guy that Billy really wants this year. Even if that player will likely fall into their laps, if there is a spot where Belichick thinks the value is fit to move up and take that player, I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Reiss hears Raji might be slipping out of the first round.

Also, that they may be targeting Darius Butler.

He'll be a guiding Light - The Boston Globe

I don't think he'll slip out of the first but with those issues hanging over him I wouldn't take him -not that we need him anyway

 

[WhiZa]

Understand that but at this point in his career Springs is a year-to-year player, Bodden is only signed for 1 yr and Jenkins is compared by many scouts to Springs both in his style of play and versatility. Jenkins can play CB and S and as BB says you can never have enough DBs.

That's a good point, I forgot about Jenkins being able to play safety. That's the type of versatile player BB would drool over. He could be the #3 safety this year, or step up next year and start at CB giving BB the option to let Bodden or Hobbs go. Also if he's able to beat our Sanders for a starting role they can cut Sanders and his 2.3 mil salary next year.

 

[carolinatony]

I'm sorry, the reason why the Pats haven't been able to win a super bowl for the last 4 years is because they have lacked impact players at the LB, CB and S position. Sometimes, you can't keep drafting "best available" and have to bite the bullet and take a player based on "need". If the Pats fail to upgrade their pass rush, they will once again miss out on the Lombardi trophy.



I have no idea what we will do draft day but I do agree with you on this. We can trade up if BB wants but I hope we get 2 SOLID players on defense this year with our picks. We have a great chance to upgrade both LB and DB.
Throw in a solid OL and I think this would be a great draft for us.

 

[14thDragon]

Sorry, I thought my views on Raji have been well enough documented to not require further explanation. See http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/209694-bj-raji-hypothetical.html.

Anyway, that's my view, sane or not.

No, my bad. I usually have ignored anything on Raji as I really figure that unless Wilfork is going to be gone, and is traded away on draft weekend, Raji is off the draft board.

I like the idea of a guy to spell Wilfork and work into 4-3 type of sets, beyond Wright, but simlar to my opinions on drafting Hood or Jackson in round one, I think the wiser course is to go later in the draft. I think Sam Hill would be a good option.