Patriots restructure Dave Andrews contract

[DaBruinz]

There's the cap move. Thought maybe they'd send someone packing but this works too.

They are still short on the total roster. I think we'll see another move in regards freeing up cap space besides roster additions. ff

 

[mgteich]

Pats are not guaranteeing $25M lol. It's not happening. You refuse to see what's been painfully obvious since Kraft spoke about it in Palm Beach. You seem to think they'll operate that way just because they can, although they haven't and won't.

The $10.8M they need will mainly come from cuts and trades. Kraft doesn't want to push any more $ to the future. Deal with it.

???

So. your view is that we shouldn't guarantee Judon and Henry their 2022 salaries by paying most of it a bonus and the rest as a minimal salary? that is the $10M that will be "needed".

There would be ZERO change in their 2022 or future compensation.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

All of that said, it doesn't change the fact that they basically can't afford to cut players like Judon or Henry this year anyways.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Obviously, many cuts have to be made to reduce the squad to 53.

Exactly.

 

[venecol]

???

So. your view is that we shouldn't guarantee Judon and Henry their 2022 salaries by paying most of it a bonus and the rest as a minimal salary? that is the $10M that will be "needed".

There would be ZERO change in their 2022 or future compensation.

Not sure what you mean. Henry's salary is already guaranteed. If you turn their salaries to bonuses, the only way to get cap relief is for the bonus to be prorated to future years. In doing so, you push 2022 $ into 2023 and eat at that cap.

In Henry's case, if you turn $8M of his salary to a bonus, $4M of it would go to 2023. His cap hit would then go from $15M to $11M in 2022 and from $15.5M to $19.5M in 2023. His dead money would go from $5M to $9M in 2023.

Sure, his compensation doesn't change, but his cap # balloons to almost $20M.

That's what I believe they're trying to avoid, so imo, they'll seek addt'l cap savings via trades and cuts. That's all I'm saying.

 

[BTTA]

Pats are not guaranteeing $25M lol. It's not happening. You refuse to see what's been painfully obvious since Kraft spoke about it in Palm Beach. You seem to think they'll operate that way just because they can, although they haven't and won't.

The $10.8M they need will mainly come from cuts and trades. Kraft doesn't want to push any more $ to the future. Deal with it.

All @mgteich is saying is that the team has that option. He's not saying they are going to do it, or advocating that they do it. Just pointing out for the rest of us that it is available if they want to do it.

 

[venecol]

All @mgteich is saying is that the team has that option. He's not saying they are going to do it, or advocating that they do it. Just pointing out for the rest of us that it is available if they want to do it.

I disagree. He's been pushing restructures as the way for a while now. And I understand, that's why I said:

You seem to think they'll operate that way just because they can, although they haven't and won't.

Of course they can restructure everyone & push $30M into 2023. All I'm saying is it doesn't appear they want to do that. We'll see what happens.

 

[mgteich]

I disagree. He's been pushing restructures as the way for a while now. And I understand, that's why I said:

Of course they can restructure everyone & push $30M into 2023. All I'm saying is it doesn't appear they want to do that. We'll see what happens.

Yes, I believe that the restructuring of Judon and Henry are my option over cutting or trading any of the players that would produce signifcant cap money.

I do prefer extending a couple of players to the restructures. However, these negotiations are more difficult.

 

[venecol]

Yes, I believe that the restructuring of Judon and Henry are my option over cutting or trading any of the players that would produce signifcant cap money.

I do prefer extending a couple of players to the restructures. However, these negotiations are more difficult.

There's nothing wrong with restructures. That's what everyone else is doing (LAR, TB, LV, KC, etc.). All I'm saying is that it doesn't appear Pats want to do that this season (they've done it in the past).

In the examples you used, both players 2022 salaries are already guaranteed so there's no benefit to them to turn those into a bonus. You're basically pushing $10M of dead money into 2023 while not adding any new players. The other thing to keep in mind, is the cap hit for those players would be about $20M EACH. So now you have 2 players taking up about 18% of the 2023 cap.

You can do the same thing (free up $10M) by simply trading Agholor. There's too many WRs anyway. That also doesn't touch the 2023 cap, allowing an extra $10M to be available for new players.

 

[Family]

I disagree. He's been pushing restructures as the way for a while now. And I understand, that's why I said:

Of course they can restructure everyone & push $30M into 2023. All I'm saying is it doesn't appear they want to do that. We'll see what happens.

This is the game this time of year.

They probably have their eye on some FA like Flowers, but the cry is "we are tight on the cap."

They did this with Cam. You can't say it doesn't appear because the game they're likely playing is to appear this way.

 

[mgteich]

There's nothing wrong with restructures. That's what everyone else is doing (LAR, TB, LV, KC, etc.). All I'm saying is that it doesn't appear Pats want to do that this season (they've done it in the past).

In the examples you used, both players 2022 salaries are already guaranteed so there's no benefit to them to turn those into a bonus. You're basically pushing $10M of dead money into 2023 while not adding any new players. The other thing to keep in mind, is the cap hit for those players would be about $20M EACH. So now you have 2 players taking up about 18% of the 2023 cap.

You can do the same thing (free up $10M) by simply trading Agholor. There's too many WRs anyway. That also doesn't touch the 2023 cap, allowing an extra $10M to be available for new players.

Yes, the patriots seem to want to be in the top 5 in cap money next year. Even with restructuring Judon, they would be #2.

Your goal seems to be to try to try to be the very top in cap room in 2023, a strange goal, even if that were possible.

You seem to think that the patriots want to cut players who would help this year, as if doing well in 2022 isn't really a goal.

 

[venecol]

This is the game this time of year.

I don't think they're playing a game and if they are, they're playing it by themselves.

They probably have their eye on some FA like Flowers, but the cry is "we are tight on the cap."

If there were any interest in Flowers he would've already signed w/ someone else. I think Flowers remaining unsigned must be injury related. Every FA that was assoc. w/ Pats having interest in, signed w/ someone else. It isn't like there's a bunch of quality FAs left anyway.

They did this with Cam. You can't say it doesn't appear because the game they're likely playing is to appear this way.

They're not playing any games. They have a plan. Every move they've made to release cap $ was based on cuts and trades. They've only had two minor restructures I think: Anderson for a minimal or no gain that I don't recall, and Andrews just enough ($2.1M) to sign remaining 3 rookies.

They continue to sign middling players that don't affect the cap. We know that at some point they'll need about $10M to operate. We also know they'll have to cut the roster down to 53 + PS, so in those cuts there will be additional cap savings.

It's likely the 3 remaining roster spots could be filled w/ players that won't affect the cap (as Miguel has surmised).

If in fact they're eyeing a FA that would require $4-$8M in addt'l cap space, my guess is they won't do that until they find a trade partner for one of the guys they've id'd as a cut. Who that FA is, Idk. Seems unlikely though.

 

[mgteich]

There's nothing wrong with restructures. That's what everyone else is doing (LAR, TB, LV, KC, etc.). All I'm saying is that it doesn't appear Pats want to do that this season (they've done it in the past).

In the examples you used, both players 2022 salaries are already guaranteed so there's no benefit to them to turn those into a bonus. You're basically pushing $10M of dead money into 2023 while not adding any new players. The other thing to keep in mind, is the cap hit for those players would be about $20M EACH. So now you have 2 players taking up about 18% of the 2023 cap.

You can do the same thing (free up $10M) by simply trading Agholor. There's too many WRs anyway. That also doesn't touch the 2023 cap, allowing an extra $10M to be available for new players.

We differ on our understanding of the cap. You seem to think that it matters greatly if a player has a $20M cap, even if that is only because some of his cap money was delayed for accounting/cap purposes. I will state what some folks see as obvious. It makes zero difference in evaluating a players, or in any way if a player is paid $2M and $20M compared to $11M and $11M, as long as both years are guaranteed.
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I dwell on this discussion because many simply don't understand the cap. Each year, they want to cut players who have a high cap hit, without regard to the actual cost of cutting the player.

 

[venecol]

Yes, the patriots seem to want to be in the top 5 in cap money next year. Even with restructuring Judon, they would be #2.

Pats are at #3, any further restructures will drop them to #4. The position they're in is less important than the cap space they have available.

Your goal seems to be to try to try to be the very top in cap room in 2023, a strange goal, even if that were possible.

My goal? Lol, that's not their goal either. It appears they want to preserve as much 2023 cap space as possible. Clearly.

You seem to think that the patriots want to cut players who would help this year, as if doing well in 2022 isn't really a goal.

Patriots have to cut players (90 to 53), as all teams do. I'm sure they've preliminarily identified which players could be cut, taking into acct positional depth, contract status, potential cap savings, and trade values. They obviously won't cut a player they believe could help this year.

 

[mgteich]

Four teams have chosen to have over $50M of 2023 cap space at this point. Even after the no-brainer of restructuring Judon (and perhaps Henry), the patriots would be one of those four.

There is no evidence that the patriots have a high priority to cut 2022 players to increase the 2023 cap available.

Yes, many posters have players that they want to cut, replace, and save cap room. I see nothing from the team that would indicate that they aren't signing a player because they don't want to decrease 2023 cap room.

Restructuring Judon and Henry are really no-brainers. However, if these transactions aren't needed, then they won't be done.
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My personal preference is to keep ALL of our top players, which is certainly possible. I do hope for the acquisition of a couple of players, as is always the case in camp and the pre-season.

My open question is with regard to what players we will try to extend, rather than have them go into free agency in 2023 or 2024. Sure, we can wait. But we all understand that waiting decreases the likelihood of keeping these players.

 

[venecol]

We differ on our understanding of the cap. You seem to think that it matters greatly if a player has a $20M cap, even if that is only because some of his cap money was delayed for accounting/cap purposes. I will state what some folks see as obvious. It makes zero difference in evaluating a players, or in any way if a player is paid $2M and $20M compared to $11M and $11M, as long as both years are guaranteed.

I mean, it does make a difference, even if you don't believe it does.

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I dwell on this discussion because many simply don't understand the cap. Each year, they want to cut players who have a high cap hit, without regard to the actual cost of cutting the player.

What's the cost of cutting a player in a positional group with ample depth? I assume you mean that when you cut a player, he needs to be replaced. What if his replacement is already on the team? Would that make a diff. in understanding of the cap?

 

[mgteich]

I mean, it does make a difference, even if you don't believe it does.

What's the cost of cutting a player in a positional group with ample depth? I assume you mean that when you cut a player, he needs to be replaced. What if his replacemwnt is already on the team? Would that make a diff. in understanding of the cap?

Sure, if the team has the opinion that Nixon will give us almost as much production as Agholor, then they should trade Agholor. My guess is that no one of that opinion works for the patriots.

This isn't an issue of the cap. This is an issue of player evaluation.

What positions do YOU think have enough adequate depth to cut one of the top vets before cap (or even after), and save significant cap money? I mention WR since this is probably the only case where this is possible. That is, we have enough depth at WR IN JUNE. Just as in other years, the situation may be very different in August. I would not even CONSIDER a WR move to cut or trade a player until August.

 

[venecol]

What positions do YOU think have enough adequate depth to cut one of the top vets before cap (or even after), and save significant cap money?

I would cut (or trade if possible):

N'Keal Harry
Slowjuan Williams
Ty Montgomery
Jahlani Tavai
Asiasi or Keene

Without any question. That yields $6.25M (more if you can find a trade partner for one of these jags).

 

[ralmat55]

Exactly.

Only cuts or trades of players who currently have one of the 51 highest cap figures will create additional in-season cap space needed to pay players 52 &53, players on IR/PUP, practice squad roster, and elevations of PS players to the active roster.

As Venecal has been saying and Kraft indicated at the March owner’s meeting , the Patriots are operating as if they are close to their cash budget for players this season.

Further conversion of salary to bonus creates cap space but also increases the 2022 cash outlay where trading or cutting players and their salaries creates the needed in-season cap space without exceeding their cash budget.

There really aren’t that many options to cut or trade to get the cap space they need, and 4 or them have significant salary guarantees. As I see it, the candidates for release or trade are: Nelson Agoholor ($5 million guarantee; $4.88 m savings if released), Isaiah Wynn ($10.4 million guarantee; no savings if released), Davon Godcheaux ($2.5 million guaranteed; $5 m savings if released), Jonathan Jones ($0 guarantee, $5.682 savings if traded or cut), Jalen Mills ($3.5 million guaranteed; $5.441 m saved if traded, Jakobi Meyers ($0 guaranteed; $3.986 m saved if cut or traded) and Jake Bailey ($0 guaranteed; $3.986 m if cut or traded.

I think their plan is to play it by ear and make 2 or 3 transactions involving the players I mentioned when the time comes depending on what transpires through trading camp and pre-season at the various position groups.

Wynn, definitely and Agholor, most likely, would be traded rather than cut, but I really don’t see any other team taking on their full salary in a trade requiring the Pats to pay part of their salary to facilitate a trade.

 

[mgteich]

I would cut (or trade if possible):

N'Keal Harry
Slowjuan Williams
Ty Montgomery
Jahlani Tavai
Asiasi or Keene

Without any question. That yields $6.25M (more if you can find a trade partner for one of these jags).

Without any question?

I suggest that you do a calculation of the top 51, with and without these players. You will find that these cap savings is under $3M, since these players would be replaced on the top 51 by players who would account for over $900K each.
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Other than Montgomery, these cuts seem likely. I would hope for a 7th for Harry, increasing the savings a bit. Belichick would likely replace Montgomery with another STer at about the same cost. But, yes, these are part of the normal process of moving from 87 players to 53.