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Elijah

The Tom Brady Of Not Having A Gf
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Yeah all the nepotism, it’s obviously holding the Patriots down. Think how much better they could have been without that ingrown culture of groupthink.

I don't mind the Belichick boys on the staff, and I certainly love the former players we hired, but are you implying that the team is good *because* of nepotism?

The only hiring that doesn't look so good to me is Lombardi. His dad isn't very good when he works with a team, and isn't very accurate when he's a reporter.
 

PatsFanInVa

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That is just your own cognitive bias talking. In reality we see the McVays, Belichicks, Shanahans all having a lot of success despite getting their feet into the door as kids of connected parents. Do all of them have success ? No, but it is a far cry from "most likely".

We are talking about football specifically and not some dynasties of dictators in North Korea or politicans in the US. And unlike politics or many other fields the reality in sports is that the closer to the field you get the more blatant nepotism tends to clean itself up. None of the low level positions come with status in monetary or any other terms.

You are just belittling and denigrating the work and effort of people just because of their last name.

Nope. I'm noting the likelihood that Kyle Shanahan would be, without the family tie, judged most deserving of the "shot," to be vanishingly small. It's still a very old school "workplace" though, so I don't think the nepotism will be questioned any time soon. And let's face it, we'll give the benefit of the doubt to BB's offspring. In fact, I've seen here (and rooted for) the opinion that little Belichicks will succeed the Big Belichick, and that (much less important to fans,) little Krafts will succeed the Big Kraft. We tend to think you get the father when the son is on staff.

If I teach my kid finance, s/he might therefore be the best in the field by my lights. If he didn't produce the best returns in the biz as a fund manager, we would go into this whole thing about how he outperformed given this that and the other constraint emphasized ex post facto.

If the pres were questioned closely about that kushner kid's chops, I am positive the boss would launch into an invective against every other possible "pro" for that position, whatever TF the position is.

And we can write the narrative any way we all want about BB's kids, or the shanahan kid, or whoever. The fact remains that, while you might get by with what you can share with your kid, and the kid might be a football savant in a coach's house growing up, etc., somebody else somewhere without a shot is probably yet better at it.

I loved lauding Bledsoe as a coach's son back in the day and talking all about how great he must therefore see the field. I remember the bloodline QB at Michigan, Brian Griese, playing against TFB, and Madden or someone saying "Gee, I don't know if he's even the best Michigan QB on the field right now." As if it should be a shock that the guy who's good at something despite not having the assumptions stacked up in his favor, would nevertheless be good at it.

BB's kids are pretty much unknowns to me. I just don't think it likely that they're the absolutely best possible picks. I do know as well that BB is a big fan of treating others in the "coaching fraternity" right, because it's so small, and you'll see those folks again... another, and I think good, old school attitude.
 

RASTAN99

On the Game Day Roster
You are making this so much more complicated than it needs to be.

Brian Belichick has been doing things on the Pats sideline for 14 years now. Starting with holding clipboards, charting plays and whatnot in his teenage years. Same with Stephen. Both have not been living adjacent to football but been in the right at the center of a football life.

To your point, the competitive advantage they both have as a result of being mentored/tutored by BB since inception is almost impossible to overstate.
 

Simpelton

In the Starting Line-Up
Bugs me how BB preaches you get what you earn but then has 2 sons on coaching staff.
Why? Steve's worked his way up the ranks like anyone else. Brian's been learning from his father and brother for half a decade now. Nepotism doesn't mean you NEVER hire your son. If your son is one of the best candidates for the job, go nuts as long as you can defend it
 

Simpelton

In the Starting Line-Up
AKA, Jerod "Kushner" Mayo? I kid because I love.

I see responses about people being "against" the kids being on staff. I think both that (1) it is true those kids are probably brilliant football minds and (2) it is true that crusty old BB, like anybody else, think why not your own kids who are "good enough." Monarchies are corrosive, end of story, as compared with meritocracy.

That said, other factors pertain that don't exist any other way than in a dynastic setup, both good and bad. The kids might have more loyalty, the fam group would have more cohesion at the helm, things like that.

Hope for the best, I guess. I find my heart wanting the BB family to continue to be the heart of the pats, to never leave to a rival team even at the height of their coaching powers, waiting silently to become their father as he enters retirement, on the same team, hiring Brady's son who is suddenly obsessed with football, world without end, amen. The concept of hereditary royalty has a powerful pull on our pathetic species. I feel it too. I don't think it makes any sense that this pull is, in this situation and this situation only, without a downside :D But that's my brain talking, not my heart.
The big advantage of dynastic setups is that if done right, the heir/heirs are in training all their lives for the jobs they'll take. This is very true of the Belichick clan which has been a football family for 3+ generations and each generation has learned from the one before it.

Belichick does not just hand out promotions. To move up in his organization you need to know your stuff. If you think for one second that Brian and Steve aren't held to a WAY HIGHER standard based on who they are, you're cray-cray.
 

Simpelton

In the Starting Line-Up
I don't mind the Belichick boys on the staff, and I certainly love the former players we hired, but are you implying that the team is good *because* of nepotism?

Is it really nepotism? Steve Belichick is about as experienced as his age allows him to be. He was calling some of the plays for the defense as a whole last year and may, debatably, be our unofficial DC. It's between him and Mayo.

If Steve Belichick he put his name out there he'd probably find at least half a dozen teams interested in letting him play DC and maybe even a team or two who'd take a Hail Mary on a Belichick as their Head Coach right now. He's a little green for HC, but is ready to learn on the job as a full DC if he has to.

Nepotism doesn't mean you NEVER promote your kids. If your offspring is a better fit for the organization, or even just competitive with the top of the talent pool, and you hire them, that's not nepostism and shouldn't be confused as nepotism.

Nepotism is a word with a cultural as well as a literal meaning, with most of the stigma in the word associated with its cultural meaning rather than the literal one. That word only applies to the Belichick boys in the most literal sense, which strips the term of most of the things that make it actually objectionable.

Bottom line, Steve has pulled his weight around this organization for years, and Brian has been paying his dues in the background for a very long time as well. Neither of them are underqualified for the jobs they've been offered. So where's the harm?
 

Brewskies

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To your point, the competitive advantage they both have as a result of being mentored/tutored by BB since inception is almost impossible to overstate.


Bill Belichick would never put his kid in a position to fail. Bill would have his kid change his career if the kid wasn't up for the job. They have an advantage because of their last name and working for their dad, but they have both earned the job.
 

Simpelton

In the Starting Line-Up
Bill Belichick would never put his kid in a position to fail. Bill would have his kid change his career if the kid wasn't up for the job. They have an advantage because of their last name and working for their dad, but they have both earned the job.
steve Belichick was ready for a promotion 2 years ago after the great work the safeties put in in our last Superbowl win, especially Chung and Harmon. He then shone last year and claimed a much larger role for himself through sheer competence than his actual job description allowed for. if anyone was ready to move up in the org chart, it's Steve.

Also, Steve already has the same number of rings as a positional coach that Bill had before he became a head coach.

Also, no problem with Brian taking over as Safeties coach. He's at about the same level of experience Steve was when he got the same job.
 
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