Patriots Position Coaching Changes (LOTS) :

2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
Status
Not open for further replies.

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
When I first got into coaching (1969), I was still playing as well. I THOUGHT I was a knowledgeable player who studied film and tried hard to maximize my own physical limitations by becoming a student of the game. Boy was I in for a rude awakening.

I'm sure the most common mutual reaction of everyone when they first get into coaching football is just how LITTLE you know about the game that you've played every fall for almost a decade. And let me tell you it isn't something that you can go from zero to 100 in a year or two. I coached for almost 2 decades and every in EVERY year I learned a ton of new things about a game where nothing is ever really new. Go figure.

The Bellichick boys were probably breaking down film in their early teens, yet they spent about 4 years each being "quality control" guys while they SLOWLY learned their craft. Think about Troy Brown, a guy who was the archetype of the "smart football player", and he spent 2 or 3 years "helping out at camp" while he gained further skill so he is now capable enough to be an assistant to an assistant, otherwise known as an entry level job. And Troy played the game for over a decade

Good coaches are like wine, they ONLY get better with age.
 

tasmlab

Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
the "anti-corruption" position is always that the appearance of impropriety from hiring relatives outweighs whatever argument you would make that just coincidentally, out of the 7 billion people on earth (or the still sizeable group who would want jobs coaching on an NFL team,) your own flesh and blood happen to be the best qualified.

Any reasonable person would just assume the fix is in, which undermines the system even if, as is very unlikely, your relatives are indeed the best qualified.

A second problem is that no matter how well you make other judgments, with relatives, assuming that you are a living being, you have an imperative to favor your own. This imperative would worm its way into whatever logical arguments you muster in their favor.

No, the Kim family does not just happen to have a knack for governmental excellence in the DPRK.

Your reasoning is perfectly fine.

And/but, BB kids were raised 24/7 since they were born around football and NFL, including their grandfather and their dad who is arguably the greatest coach ever. They had a football library in their house. I'm betting they had a more intense, high quality, accurate, longer football education than was available to every one of those other seven billion people on Earth.

If one were to DESIGN a lab to develop a football coach, it would start with drawing your first breath in the constant presence of BB. And we're not even counting genes yet.

Plus, BB needs to be in great synch with his coaches and his children have a huge advantage over the other seven billion.

I agree that personal bias is there, but they've also had a very different development path.
 

Tottie

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Does anyone really think BB would promote his kids if they sucked? I mean I get it that they had an "IN" when they started but so do alot of different people. In fact most people get in based on a relationship of some sort or at the very least get an interview that way.
 

Bradybranch

Practice Squad Player
It is funny that people have an issue with Bill's kids on the staff. Don't you think they've been born and raised to be football coaches? They were probably talking football and breaking down film since they were kids, learning from the best coach ever. Stephen has been coaching the secondary, and those results speak for themselves.
 

Scotty

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Think this has been debated previously , hopefully they will absorb all that is available and stay and coach future Pats. Don't think they could get a better "master" , however maybe they may miss out from learning from other Head Coaches (good ones !) which may add to their overall knowledge.
 

rochrist

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Bugs me how BB preaches you get what you earn but then has 2 sons on coaching staff.
Because it's not possible they earned their positions? Based on what?
 

tasmlab

Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
A secondary benefit to having BB brood on the staff is that it may likely keep BB in the position much longer. Why retire or switch teams if you get to work with your loved ones?
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
the "anti-corruption" position is always that the appearance of impropriety from hiring relatives outweighs whatever argument you would make that just coincidentally, out of the 7 billion people on earth (or the still sizeable group who would want jobs coaching on an NFL team,) your own flesh and blood happen to be the best qualified.

Any reasonable person would just assume the fix is in, which undermines the system even if, as is very unlikely, your relatives are indeed the best qualified.

A second problem is that no matter how well you make other judgments, with relatives, assuming that you are a living being, you have an imperative to favor your own. This imperative would worm its way into whatever logical arguments you muster in their favor.

No, the Kim family does not just happen to have a knack for governmental excellence in the DPRK.

As everything in life you gotta look at the context. I don't think you can compare Bill's kids who have worked for years in the organization from absolute basement level up to where they are now with people who get handed something.

Hell, Jerod Mayo getting the semi-DC job straight without going through the ranks is a much more problematic situation than Brian and Stephen. The same way they shouldn't be handed anything because of a name they should also not be denied a position they worked years for.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
A secondary benefit to having BB brood on the staff is that it may likely keep BB in the position much longer. Why retire or switch teams if you get to work with your loved ones?

I think it was Reiss who observed that in 2013 or 2014 that BB seemed a bit more revitalized because he was actually spending more time with his children now than in the decade before. I think it absolutely played a role in postponing retirement for him.
 

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Think this has been debated previously , hopefully they will absorb all that is available and stay and coach future Pats. Don't think they could get a better "master" , however maybe they may miss out from learning from other Head Coaches (good ones !) which may add to their overall knowledge.
Granted that it would be nice if the BB boys stayed here. However for THEIR careers, it would probably be better if at some point they left the Pats to experience OTHER systems.

Bill's skills were formed under several HC's and systems. The Pats have a great system going, but there is more than one way to coach, and experiencing how others do it would be beneficial for them. It would give them an opportunity to see how the other half lives. To absorb new ideas that would broaden their skills. Better yet seeing how things should NOT be done is important as well.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
It is funny that people have an issue with Bill's kids on the staff. Don't you think they've been born and raised to be football coaches? They were probably talking football and breaking down film since they were kids, learning from the best coach ever. Stephen has been coaching the secondary, and those results speak for themselves.
That's 100% how I feel. It isn't like Stephen (for example) was simply a grad assistant for 2 years. He's probably been talking football - and I mean the intricate aspects of coaching the game - with his father for decades.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
Granted that it would be nice if the BB boys stayed here. However for THEIR careers, it would probably be better if at some point they left the Pats to experience OTHER systems.
It is an interesting situation. If another team wanted to make Stephen a coordinator (which I think he is 100% ready for), the new NFL rules prevent the Patriots from stopping him. However, I think it goes without saying that he certainly is not going to leave the team on bad terms. Brian is a little younger and less experienced, but nevertheless moving very much in the same direction.

I do not know their priorities or goals are, but I think it is safe to say their careers will continue on an upward trajectory.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Granted that it would be nice if the BB boys stayed here. However for THEIR careers, it would probably be better if at some point they left the Pats to experience OTHER systems.

Bill's skills were formed under several HC's and systems. The Pats have a great system going, but there is more than one way to coach, and experiencing how others do it would be beneficial for them. It would give them an opportunity to see how the other half lives. To absorb new ideas that would broaden their skills. Better yet seeing how things should NOT be done is important as well.

If Mayo gets a coaching job offer I wouldn't be surprised seeing Stephen going with him as DC. Depending on how this year goes this could happen next offseason.
 

tasmlab

Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
If Mayo gets a coaching job offer I wouldn't be surprised seeing Stephen going with him as DC. Depending on how this year goes this could happen next offseason.

That fast? And head coach?

Vrabel was considered a pretty quick transition, but he still had 6-7 years coaching experience. Mayo's first year was 2019.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
That fast? And head coach?

Vrabel was considered a pretty quick transition, but he still had 6-7 years coaching experience. Mayo's first year was 2019.

His first year was successful as semi-DC. If they can repeat that under the current circumstances he will be a sought after minority coaching option.

Not saying it would be a good idea but I can see him getting offers. Personally if I was him I'd stay another 2-3 years under BB and absorb as much as I can.
 

nextsuperstar

Practice Squad Player
His first year was successful as semi-DC. If they can repeat that under the current circumstances he will be a sought after minority coaching option.

Not saying it would be a good idea but I can see him getting offers. Personally if I was him I'd stay another 2-3 years under BB and absorb as much as I can.

if I were Mayo, I’d only leave for the right opening. The best coaching candidate thrown into a terrible situation is not guaranteed to succeed.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
if I were Mayo, I’d only leave for the right opening. The best coaching candidate thrown into a terrible situation is not guaranteed to succeed.

Typically for coordinators that are offered HC gigs I'd say go get your money and set yourself up for life. Most coordinators don't make much money at all, especially with the Pats. Flores' overall deal is more than 10x what he would have made as a coordinator in NE.

Mayo is obviously in a different situation because he made a fair amount of dough as a player. So he can definitely be more careful about the right situation.
 

Sciz

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
New as of a few months ago, teams can no longer block position coaches from interviewing for other teams’ coordinator positions. Steve or Mayo could just leave that way now (although I assume not both).
 

patman52

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Granted that it would be nice if the BB boys stayed here. However for THEIR careers, it would probably be better if at some point they left the Pats to experience OTHER systems.

Bill's skills were formed under several HC's and systems. The Pats have a great system going, but there is more than one way to coach, and experiencing how others do it would be beneficial for them. It would give them an opportunity to see how the other half lives. To absorb new ideas that would broaden their skills. Better yet seeing how things should NOT be done is important as well.

yeah, I think after they have been coaching for ten years and gaining knowledge/experience with other coaching positions in the organization, then I think it is time for them to be exposed to a different perspective. There are only 400 or so nfl coaches, not a huge gene pool, I am sure coaches talk to other coaches all the time to gain perspective.
 

PatsFanInVa

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Does anyone really think BB would promote his kids if they sucked? I mean I get it that they had an "IN" when they started but so do alot of different people. In fact most people get in based on a relationship of some sort or at the very least get an interview that way.

As everything in life you gotta look at the context. I don't think you can compare Bill's kids who have worked for years in the organization from absolute basement level up to where they are now with people who get handed something.

Hell, Jerod Mayo getting the semi-DC job straight without going through the ranks is a much more problematic situation than Brian and Stephen. The same way they shouldn't be handed anything because of a name they should also not be denied a position they worked years for.

AKA, Jerod "Kushner" Mayo? I kid because I love.

I see responses about people being "against" the kids being on staff. I think both that (1) it is true those kids are probably brilliant football minds and (2) it is true that crusty old BB, like anybody else, think why not your own kids who are "good enough." Monarchies are corrosive, end of story, as compared with meritocracy.

That said, other factors pertain that don't exist any other way than in a dynastic setup, both good and bad. The kids might have more loyalty, the fam group would have more cohesion at the helm, things like that.

Hope for the best, I guess. I find my heart wanting the BB family to continue to be the heart of the pats, to never leave to a rival team even at the height of their coaching powers, waiting silently to become their father as he enters retirement, on the same team, hiring Brady's son who is suddenly obsessed with football, world without end, amen. The concept of hereditary royalty has a powerful pull on our pathetic species. I feel it too. I don't think it makes any sense that this pull is, in this situation and this situation only, without a downside :D But that's my brain talking, not my heart.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top