Patriots HOF nominees

[Steve102]

Hey, we all have opinions. That's what makes the world so fun.

Welker before....

...Julius Adams. It's a pink hat, the world began in 2001 type of opinion. I get it.

...Vrabel, White, Hightower, Vinatieri. True enough, Welker may have been better at his position than these 4 were at their positions. Very debatable with Vinatieri though. This is an opinion that values 6 years of WR stats that amounted to regular season success over 4 players who had game changing, NFL Films moments leading to multiple SB wins. I get it. Aw ****, I'm lying. I don't get it.

As for Parcells. He was important to the franchise turning around. Not even arguable. He was vital, not important. If only it ended there. I liken Parcells to Benedict Arnold. Before dismissing this as a lazy way to call someone a traitor.... Benedict Arnold was a heroic Revolutionary figure before betraying the original Patriots. His part in planning and executing the siege of Fort Ticondaroga was vital to beating the British. Then he felt slighted when he was passed up for promotion (probably rightfully so). And he joined the British and betrayed us. Parcells felt slighted (perhaps rightfully so), and he virtually threw a winnable SB.

Parcells belongs in the Patriots HOF as much as Arnold belongs in a Revolutionary Patriots HOF.

Yes, Julius can wait more time...because he is dead. We'll toss him out to focus on the 2001 to 2019 for obvious reasons. 6 rings warrants recency bias. No argument here.

As a Patriots fan, those 6 rings are what brought me the greatest joy. The players who contributed in a major way to multiple championships are more HOF-worthy TO ME. I appreciate numbers just fine. I just don't masturbate to them.

As you agreed, the following should be before Welker: White, Edelman, Brady, Vinatieri. Why White? Welker was a much better WR than White was a RB. Not even close. So why does White deserve it more than Welker? 28-3.

Vrabel impacted those first 3 SB's as much as any player except the QB. His impact to the dynasty isn't even comparable to Welker's. Don't be stupid. Sure, Vrabel comes across as a douchey, hardo of a coach. If that makes you forget his impact here, that's on you. He is not that different than James White.

While I share your lack of love for McCourty, he certainly had major impacts on winning rings. He belongs in the Pats HOF before Welker. However, Welker should be in the conversation for NFL HOF. That's a place McCourty will never be without a ticket.

Gronk? Not even a debate. Let's add him to the list above.

Hightower? For the tackle in the Seattle game before Malcolm Go, and the strip sack in the 28-3 game, he belongs as soon as eligible.

Slater? Yes, I know ST do not matter. But surely a ST captain and perennial pro bowler on SB winning teams is more important to Pats history than the best (or 2nd best) WR during a ring-less spell.


Those 9 listed above belong in there before Welker should get a mention. Julius Adams should be obvious to anyone with a clue. That's 10.

I will concede that Antowain Smith, Malcolm Butler, Mosi Tatupu, and others who are more identifiable in Patriot history are more controversial. I would put them in before Welker too. I understand why most would disagree with them.

Welker, Pat HOF class of 2034 sounds about right to me.

Two killer posts on the subject.

 

[crawhammer]

Welker before....

...Julius Adams. It's a pink hat, the world began in 2001 type of opinion. I get it.

Unprecedented success came from 2001 - 2019. It deserves most of the attention.

...Vrabel, White, Hightower, Vinatieri. True enough, Welker may have been better at his position than these 4 were at their positions. Very debatable with Vinatieri though. This is an opinion that values 6 years of WR stats that amounted to regular season success over 4 players who had game changing, NFL Films moments leading to multiple SB wins. I get it. Aw ****, I'm lying. I don't get it.

Welker is the best WR in franchise history. Moss didn't stay long enough. Edelman has the rings but Welker was the far more prolific and better WR. Love Stanley Morgan. Imagine this cat in the modern era? Probably the phenomenal 19.2 yards per reception wouldn't hold up but he would be a prolific receiver for sure. I wouldn't push back too much on Morgan as the franchise's top WR, considering Welker had the much better QB compliment.

Parcells felt slighted (perhaps rightfully so), and he virtually threw a winnable SB.

Yeah, I can't agree with the last part (about throwing the SB). Incompetent QB play lost the game. It's virtually impossible to overcome 4 INTs and 46.6 passer rating from your QB in a Super Bowl.

 

[crawhammer]

one of the single most overrated coaches of all time......great GM

and **** him

Parcells turned 4 miserable franchises into playoff contenders, got 2 of them to the Super Bowl, and won 2 rings. And he never had anyone close to a HOF QB. Great HC. Great GM.

 

[Efstratios]

You're going to be disappointed then because he's getting in sooner than that.

Of all the players or coaches you've mentioned, here's my order of how they should get into the Patriots HOF:

1. Tom Brady
2. Rob Gronkowski
3. Julian Edelman
4. Wes Welker
5. Adam Vinatieri
6. James White
7. Bill Parcells
8. Dont'a Hightower
9. Mike Vrabel
10. Julius Adams
11. Devin McCourty

Not getting in (per me):

Mosi Tatupu
Antowain Smith
Malcolm Butler
Matthew Slater

Mostly agree, though I'd prematurely slot in Belichick at #2 (we can talk about Parcells' being instrumental to constructing integral parts of the first dynasty roster but Bill deserves the credit for building the defense of 2013-2019 and for scooping up Gronk in the draft) and I might move up Hightower just above White if only because Dont'a came up in the clutch in three different Superbowls whereas White was inactive for 49 (though that's not to discount 51 or the AFCCG against Mahomes).

 

[Steve102]

Parcells left with the team in the Super Bowl. And he got the team there with a QB playing like total garbage. Bledsoe was awful in the AFC playoffs despite the defense completely shutting down the opposition and making it very easy for the offense. When he had to keep up in a higher scoring contest, he started throwing picks all over the place (which pretty much sums up Bledsoe's career postseason contributions). Parcells departure from the Patriots came down to irreconcilable differences with Kraft on how the team should be run.

Maybe if Parcells put in a little more effort into coaching up Bledsoe, the result would have been different. You have to figure that Parcells beef with Kraft didn't just come to a head in the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. He likely had it simmering from the moment RKK stuck him with Terry Glenn, based on how Parcells own system had Glenn rated at the top of the draft board. I'm a believer that if Parcells heart was truly in it, things may have been different. We will never know. What we do know is that there was a cold war between Parcells and RKK that went on from some point during that season and extended well into his tenure with the Jete.

Parcells turned 4 miserable franchises into playoff contenders, got 2 of them to the Super Bowl, and won 2 rings. And he never had anyone close to a HOF QB. Great HC. Great GM.

Didn't win chit without Belichick, did he? I mean, we all know how you love to point out that Bill hasn't done squat without Brady, so...

 

[crawhammer]

Maybe if Parcells put in a little more effort into coaching up Bledsoe

Bledsoe completely destroyed the 1999 season which got Carroll fired. Bledsoe got Belichick off to a 5-13 start (and that mess wasn't turning around like it did once Brady became the starter). Parcells had a .500 regular season record with Bledsoe completing 55% of his passes. 2-2 in the postseason, and a Super Bowl appearance, with Bledsoe throwing 10 INTs. Bledsoe was equally terrible in the 1997 postseason with Carroll. Belichick traded Bledsoe to Buffalo, a division rival, because he knew it would effectively eliminate them from contention. Bledsoe wasn't a product of Parcells "lack of effort."

 

[Pape]

You're going to be disappointed then because he's getting in sooner than that.

Of all the players or coaches you've mentioned, here's my order of how they should get into the Patriots HOF:

1. Tom Brady
2. Rob Gronkowski
3. Julian Edelman
4. Wes Welker
5. Adam Vinatieri
6. James White
7. Bill Parcells
8. Dont'a Hightower
9. Mike Vrabel
10. Julius Adams
11. Devin McCourty

Not getting in (per me):

Mosi Tatupu
Antowain Smith
Malcolm Butler
Matthew Slater

your list needs to be broken down by year of eligibility

 

[goheels22002]

Then The Receiver shouldn't have turned the Wrong ****ing Way.

That incompletion was Brady's fault. And Tuna, while great in a hoagie, sucks when it decides to abandon ship the week before the Super Bowl.

My vote this year is for the biggest badass on the ballot - Logan Mankins.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Let's all not forget that Welker possible cost the Pats another SB with that disastrous loss to the Jets..

Pats' Welker benched for start of playoff game

New England Patriots receiver Wes Welker sat out the start of Sunday's playoff game against the Jets, and CBS reported on its broadcast that he was benched for mocking New York coach Rex Ryan during the week.

www.espn.com

Another stupid decision by BB to bench a player and cost them a championship!

Parcells is dead to me, you can forgive plenty of things, except bailing on the team in the week before a SB. He shouldn't even be allowed into the parking lots at the stadium.

Mankins never won a thing.

Julius Adams was a beast, it is a crime he was not elected in his lifetime.

 

[captain stone]

That incompletion was Brady's fault.

Wrong. That pass was thrown Exactly where coverage dictated it be thrown.

And Tuna, while great in a hoagie, sucks when it decides to abandon ship the week before the Super Bowl.

Agree.

My vote this year is for the biggest badass on the ballot - Logan Mankins.

That selfish ****ing loser? Never. I'd vote for The Receiver ahead of him.

 

[Efstratios]

Wrong. That pass was thrown Exactly where coverage dictated it be thrown.





Agree.




That selfish ****ing loser? Never. I'd vote for The Receiver ahead of him.

Just to clarify. You talking about how Mankins held out in 2010, or are there other demerits on Logan's case (lack of rings aside)?

 

[captain stone]

Just to clarify. You talking about how Mankins held out in 2010, or are there other demerits on Logan's case (lack of rings aside)?

Yeah the 2010 holdout, and the words he used to describe Bill & RK... He was then starting to rev-up his ******** again during the 2013-14 offseason when he had one year remaining on that extension he signed in 2010, before Bill finally had enough and shipped his ass to Tampa...
It's only too bad that Joel Bitonio wasn't drafted to replace him, instead of Mikey Lombardi-recommended Dom Easily... If he had been, NOBODY would be talking about Mankin$ in the Pats HOF.

 

[Steve102]

your list needs to be broken down by year of eligibility

I did that, I think, at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Pape]

I did that, I think, at the beginning of the thread.

thanks Steve

I tried to do it, but it was like 2:30 am and I couldn't think straight... still can't lol

 

[Pape]

Guys beyond the obvious who belong in the Patriots HoF, or at least need to have their arguments heard in the HoF committee, according to me... these names are more focused on older players, as I think the "dynasty" guys like brady gronk edelman, mccourty, slater etc are all self-evident... but there was a team prior to the "dynasty years" ... these guys deserve as much recognition for their efforts as the more recent players...

Jim Colclough
Ron Hall
Larry Eisenhauer
Tommy Addison
Fred Marion
Tony Collins
Bill Lenkaitis
Roland James
Vincent Brown
Chris Slade
Sam Adams
Ray Hamilton
Don Webb
Charley Long
Johnny Rembert

I am sure I could add another 25 guys to the list, but whats the point... i realize that most of those guys won't ever get in, but some of them really are deserving of the honor... There were a ton of really good players that have come and gone thru Boston/New England... I think its only right that they at least get some consideration...

I would say to whomever - if you dont know these guys, take some free time and look em up... it might surprise you... there are clips and games from the 60s, 70s and 80's dotted all across youtube... i have 77 vid links saved to my computer ranging from 1960 thru 1975 alone... and even more from 75 to the early1990s... the stuff is out there... take a few minutes and watch... I have posted a bunch here, but outside of Ian, I don't think anyone has bothered to watch any of the vids... least no one has reached out asking about them or commented on the links...

the senior committee appears to be averaging 1 enshrinee every 4 years... so im not expecting any real push to get these guys in... its a crying shame...

.

 

[captain stone]

I am sure I could add another 25 guys to the list, but whats the point... i realize that most of those guys won't ever get in, but some of them really are deserving of the honor... There were a ton of really good players that have come and gone thru Boston/New England... I thinkits only right that they at least get some consideration...

the senior committee appears to be averaging 1 enshrinee every 4 years... so im not expecting any real push to get these guys in... its a crying shame...
.

Has anyone suggested to the Senior committee that, in order to help clear the logjam both now & in future years, they start enshrining eligible players every other year, if not Every Year? I mean, who's making up these stupid rules anyway?

 

[Pape]

Has anyone suggested to the Senior committee that, in order to help clear the logjam both now & in future years, they started enshrining players every other year, if not Every Year? I mean, who's making up these stupid rules anyway?

i honestly dont know Captain... the Seniors committee has rules they follow, the first being 25 years retired, and any player considered must have been a finalist at some point... so half those names might be moot if they were never considered before

But i would hazard a guess that the process wont be changed to accommodate the older players, as a small class, as in one player per year, really makes the HoF an exclusive honor... would that the cheap bastards Sullivan Family had started something like this, it wouldn't be an issue...

 

[crawhammer]

your list needs to be broken down by year of eligibility

Oh.

Well, of the 11 nominees by NEP HOF committee, this is my order:

1. Wes Welker
2. Logan Mankins
3. Bill Parcells
4. Mike Vrabel
5. Julius Adams

Sorry not sorry you don't ever get in:

6. Lawyer Milloy
7. Russ Francis
8. Chuck Fairbanks
9. Mosi Tatupu
10. Pete Brock
11. John Smith

Only the top 5 deserve induction. My top 3 finalist would be Welker, Mankins, and Parcells. Welker is my clear choice of these nominees.

 

[crawhammer]

your list needs to be broken down by year of eligibility

Of all the players or coaches you've mentioned, here's my order of how they should get into the Patriots HOF (year of induction added):

1. Tom Brady - 2027
2. Rob Gronkowski - 2026
3. Julian Edelman - 2025
4. Wes Welker - 2023
5. Adam Vinatieri - 2028
6. James White - eligible 2026, but that's Gronk's spot, Brady is 2027, and Adam is 2028, so 2029 for JW
7. Bill Parcells - currently eligible, he's 81 so let's get him in when hopefully he can still enjoy it (2024)
8. Dont'a Hightower - 2030
9. Mike Vrabel - 2032
10. Julius Adams - 2033
11. Devin McCourty - 2034

(I'm inserting Logan Mankins for 2031.)

Not getting in (per me):

Mosi Tatupu
Antowain Smith
Malcolm Butler
Matthew Slater

So just to clean it up...

2023 Welker
2024 Parcells
2025 Edelman
2026 Gronk
2027 Brady
2028 Vinatieri
2029 White
2030 Hightower
2031 Mankins
2032 Vrabel
2033 Adams
2034 McCourty

Get back to me in 2034 when that's exactly how it went down.

 

[Pape]

Oh.

Well, of the 11 nominees by NEP HOF committee, this is my order:

1. Wes Welker
2. Logan Mankins
3. Bill Parcells
4. Mike Vrabel
5. Julius Adams

Sorry not sorry you don't ever get in:

6. Lawyer Milloy
7. Russ Francis
8. Chuck Fairbanks
9. Mosi Tatupu
10. Pete Brock
11. John Smith

Only the top 5 deserve induction. My top 3 finalist would be Welker, Mankins, and Parcells. Welker is my clear choice of these nominees.

WW clearly has a popularity issue in New England... Same with Vrabel... Vrabel has been a top 3 candidate 6 times so far, WW hasn't even made it to the top 3 ( It is my personal opinion that WW is the best receiver New England has ever had - Moss had more talent, but Welker was better ... if that makes sense to anyone but me, cool )

and Russ Francis absolutely belongs...