Patriots cut safety Brandon Meriweather(merged jumbo thread)

[bagwell368]

I'm a little less scared than you...maybe because I was more scared by Meriweather? But I'm with you in surprise that they couldn't realize any value for him. Pre-cut trades were scant around the league, though, and it's worth noting that Meriweather (unlike Lowery) didn't have to clear waivers.

Well, everyone knows the Pats are stacked and would have to give up real players in cuts. So maybe somebody would give up a 6th to have dibs on him. But that means either that they value him, or they don't think they have other options after cut down day.

BB is I believe the #1 trader in the NFL. If nobody wanted to make a deal and he couldn't induce anyone to do it, then guess what? He gets cut, which is what happened.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I'm a little less scared than you...maybe because I was more scared by Meriweather? But I'm with you in surprise that they couldn't realize any value for him. Pre-cut trades were scant around the league, though, and it's worth noting that Meriweather (unlike Lowery) didn't have to clear waivers.

Depth is my main concern. I was never a huge fan of Merriweather either, I've been supporting the notion of trading him all offseason. I'm sure BB will make it work like in 2003 when we had no idea who was start next to Rodney after Milloy got cut and he puts a rookie CB at FS. He's definitely got something up his sleeve but what was once a deep position is now paper thin... I'd feel alot safer is Sanders was still here.

 

[The_Riddler]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Another candidate for GM. How about McGowan how did we get him? Victor Green?

Did it hurt us to let go of Wilson or Milloy (bet you were all over that one - "THEY HATE THEIR COACH").

Just send in the resumee, please.

Sounds like your the candidate for GM why don't you send in your resume. Apparently you see this as a big time benefit for the football team. Is their a particular reason why you wouldn't simply keep Meri on his rookie deal and just not play him, if for any other reason "depth"? You must have some answers, let's here it. Big fan of Josh Barret and Sergio Brown ?

 

[Rob0729]

Not really surprised he was cut. Figured he had a good chance of being gone from this team for months.

The simple truth is that the guy does not fit the scheme anymore. As Greg Bedard points out, the Pats will be moving more to a man coverage scheme and that means that the FS has a lot of responsibilities that they don't have in a zone.

From his blog post:

The Patriots could deal with Brandon Meriweather’s shortcomings when the rest of the defense and secondary was young, and Belichick was forced to play safe coverages. But not this year. Not with this scheme. The Patriots are going with the full intention of being an aggressive, pressure defense. They will only be successful if they can play more man coverage on the outside, and that gives greater responsibilities to the safeties. Meriweather would no longer just be the last line of defense.
Two plays in the preseason illustrated Meriweather’s struggles. When Jonathan Wilhite came on a slot blitz against Tampa Bay, Meriweather forgot to cover the receiver and the result was a big gain. Against the Lions in the red zone, Meriweather took a false step on play-action and couldn’t recover to clean up over the top of Kyle Arrington’s solid coverage underneath Nate Burleson. That’s just not nearly good enough for a fifth-year player. Is it any wonder that in the next game, Meriweather was assigned scrub duty late in the game?

Patriots initial 53-man roster - Extra Points - Boston.com

In the zone coverage, Meriweather was required to cover about a 15 yard radius of the field no matter what the play was. . He never had particular man responsibilities only the receivers that came into his area.

In a man coverage, he has far more to do.

- He could have to cover the slot receiver one on one.
- He could have to play close to the line just in case it is run, diagnose the play immediately and if it is a pass, drop 10-20 yards quickly to provide over the top play.
- He could in a Cover 1 (not used in a zone defense which uses primarily Cover 2 or sometimes the Cover 3) where he is responsible to be over the top no matter what side of the field he is on. In a zone, the most he would have is the left side or right side over the top.

As Bedard points out, the Pats could cover for his deficiencies in a zone, but not as likely in man coverage. Eventhough it creates a hole, I don't know if the Pats could trust Meriweather to be on the field on man coverage plays which will be most of them this year. So the Pats could have kept him and allowed him to play 10-20% of the plays this year or move on and find someone more suited for man coverage.

I personally thought Dowling could be moved to the position when he was drafted. I still think he could be moved there at least part of the time. He showed some good man skills and would absolutely crush a slot receiver off the line if he continues to play like he did Thursday night (although that was against backups).

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The NJ Jets* got a 5th Rounder for safety Dwight Lowery

Oh I've seen worse fetch a 5th or better

 

[Betterthanmost]

Middle was soft since the time he established himself in the defense. I guess BB thinks just about anybody can do the jobs that Sanders and Meriweather did in this defense.
How durable is Chung? Anyway, will be interesting to see what they have planned.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Meriweather won't go to the Jets for a number of reasons:

1.) They are not going to replace Jim Leonhard with him. Both are FS and Leonhard is the QB of the defense. They need him to call the plays and adjustments.
2.) He doesn't fit into the Jets' scheme anymore than he fits in the Pats' scheme. Meriweather is just not a man coverage FS. He needs to play a zone.
3.) Meriweather is going to go somewhere where he can definitely start right away so he can get a big contract next year. As I pointed out in my first point, the Jets are not that place.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Another candidate for GM. How about McGowan how did we get him? Victor Green?

Did it hurt us to let go of Wilson or Milloy (bet you were all over that one - "THEY HATE THEIR COACH").

Just send in the resumee, please.

It's a message board. People give opinions. This move is obviously a controversial one. The team got rid of a pro bowl safety without getting anything back for him and without seeming to have anyone that's shown the ability to take his place.

You can ballwash Belichick all you want. Others, understandably, will take a less sanguine approach.

 

[patchick]

Oh I've seen worse fetch a 5th or better

Hey, anybody have a source for the 5th for Lowery? Everything I read says "undisclosed conditional pick."

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

I won't go as far to say I'd HOPE for him to sign with NYJ, but Merriweather's probably the one major cut/trade that I couldn't care less if he went to a rival.

 

[bagwell368]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Sounds like your the candidate for GM why don't you send in your resume. Apparently you see this as a big time benefit for the football team. Is their a particular reason why you wouldn't simply keep Meri on his rookie deal and just not play him, if for any other reason "depth"? You must have some answers, let's here it. Big fan of Josh Barret and Sergio Brown ?

I don't believe I have enough knowledge to second guess BB on football matters - unlike some here. OTOH, I have enough to see Shank/Borges like acidic doubt spewed about by those that don't know anymore then I.

Meri's game was in decline in 2010 (tackling and coverage). His adherence to BB's instructions was dicey back in 2009. He got chewed out during camp this year at least twice (Howe just said so on NESN). His legal issues outside of the field and his blatant hits on the field - maybe the ****tail was too much for BB to bear. The man has all the physical talent he needs to be a fine safety, sadly he's got a 10 cent head.

I've posted my ideas already. BB will:

* Go with Brown and Barret.
* Get a cut down day vet (or two), and work him in - and still carry at least Brown if not Barret.
* Make a deal for a solid safety, will have over pay a bit.

Can we wait until the trading deadline before we have a cow?

 

[bagwell368]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

It's a message board. People give opinions. This move is obviously a controversial one. The team got rid of a pro bowl safety without getting anything back for him and without seeming to have anyone that's shown the ability to take his place.

You can ballwash Belichick all you want. Others, understandably, will take a less sanguine approach.

Hmmm, other posters are able to give an opinion, then opine back on mine, and you are able to give yours too? Somehow it seems like my right to have an opinion is being questioned by you, interesting mixed message. Wish I cared enough to argue the point, but you are clearly not operating with a full deck here, long day?

 

[patchick]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

It's a message board. People give opinions. This move is obviously a controversial one. The team got rid of a pro bowl safety without getting anything back for him and without seeming to have anyone that's shown the ability to take his place.

I don't begrudge anybody their negativity on this one. The fact is that NOBODY proposed a recent 53 minus Meriweather and Sanders, so presumably nobody must have thought it a good idea.

But still, I find myself fascinated rather than worried or angry. For instance, in another thread it was suggested that this has to do with a more aggressive defensive philosophy that would make Meriweather's mental lapses even less tolerable. Others are delighted that the move bodes well for their binkies Barrett or Dowling.

Or to put it another way: Sanders and Meriweather were known quantities...and not good ones. Now, anything could happen!

 

[eom]

apparently, colts are trying to get him.

 

[Rob0729]

apparently, colts are trying to get him.

He'd fit in a Tampa 2 defense eventhough their defense isn't a pure Tampa 2 anymore.

 

[fnordcircle]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Another candidate for GM. How about McGowan how did we get him? Victor Green?

Did it hurt us to let go of Wilson or Milloy (bet you were all over that one - "THEY HATE THEIR COACH").

Just send in the resumee, please.

So only people who could run an NFL team are allowed to give their opinion, that's a really great policy.

Ok well, patsfans.com had a good run, I hope Miguel enjoys being the only one who can post here.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm still holding to the Seymour and Meriweather comparison. Obviously we were not able to trade Meriweather (though BB knew he was cutting him weeks ago) so it is on a much smaller scale. BB must of thought Barrett and Brown provided almost the same value as Meriweather, but both provide better long term potential then Meriweather has displayed the past 5 years. Meriweather at this point is better then Brown and Barrett, but BB would rather groom the other guys then provide experience to a player he isn't going to resign next year.

Seymour was traded TO GET A #1, not because he wasn't wanted. We would not have cut him if no one wanted to trade for him.

 

[The_Riddler]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

I don't believe I have enough knowledge to second guess BB on football matters - unlike some here. OTOH, I have enough to see Shank/Borges like acidic doubt spewed about by those that don't know anymore then I.

Meri's game was in decline in 2010 (tackling and coverage). His adherence to BB's instructions was dicey back in 2009. He got chewed out during camp this year at least twice (Howe just said so on NESN). His legal issues outside of the field and his blatant hits on the field - maybe the ****tail was too much for BB to bear. The man has all the physical talent he needs to be a fine safety, sadly he's got a 10 cent head.

I've posted my ideas already. BB will:

* Go with Brown and Barret.
* Get a cut down day vet (or two), and work him in - and still carry at least Brown if not Barret.
* Make a deal for a solid safety, will have over pay a bit.

Can we wait until the trading deadline before we have a cow?

Interesting, let's jettison a 2 time pro bowl safety making a paltry 1.6 in a contract year and put all of our eggs into 2 guys who have little to no experience playing meaningful snaps in this league, makes sense. 10-cent head, nucleor-physicist that Brandon is, he has been a quality starter in this defense, sure he's made some mistakes, but we can't let him finish this year at 1.6 ??? Pull his snaps if it came to it, but what harm at 1.6 does he bring to this football team ? He effs up, sit his ass and play Barrett/Brown, pretty simple and you've got depth and value.

 

[Ring 6]

Not really surprised he was cut. Figured he had a good chance of being gone from this team for months.

The simple truth is that the guy does not fit the scheme anymore. As Greg Bedard points out, the Pats will be moving more to a man coverage scheme and that means that the FS has a lot of responsibilities that they don't have in a zone.

From his blog post:




Patriots initial 53-man roster - Extra Points - Boston.com

In the zone coverage, Meriweather was required to cover about a 15 yard radius of the field no matter what the play was. . He never had particular man responsibilities only the receivers that came into his area.

In a man coverage, he has far more to do.

- He could have to cover the slot receiver one on one.
- He could have to play close to the line just in case it is run, diagnose the play immediately and if it is a pass, drop 10-20 yards quickly to provide over the top play.
- He could in a Cover 1 (not used in a zone defense which uses primarily Cover 2 or sometimes the Cover 3) where he is responsible to be over the top no matter what side of the field he is on. In a zone, the most he would have is the left side or right side over the top.

As Bedard points out, the Pats could cover for his deficiencies in a zone, but not as likely in man coverage. Eventhough it creates a hole, I don't know if the Pats could trust Meriweather to be on the field on man coverage plays which will be most of them this year. So the Pats could have kept him and allowed him to play 10-20% of the plays this year or move on and find someone more suited for man coverage.

I personally thought Dowling could be moved to the position when he was drafted. I still think he could be moved there at least part of the time. He showed some good man skills and would absolutely crush a slot receiver off the line if he continues to play like he did Thursday night (although that was against backups).

I disagree. Meriwhether strength is his coverage ability. It makes no sense that he would be cut because we are going to value man to man coverage ability in a safety more. I like Chung but if this were the critieria he would be the one on the bench.
I don't like to put much credence in conclusion based on what someone believes BB is going to change his system to.
We always have blitzed a lot in sub packages. IIRC we blitzed the most in the NFL last year, so how does defending behind the blitz become more of a factor?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Hmmm, other posters are able to give an opinion, then opine back on mine, and you are able to give yours too? Somehow it seems like my right to have an opinion is being questioned by you, interesting mixed message. Wish I cared enough to argue the point, but you are clearly not operating with a full deck here, long day?

I did note that you could ballwash all you want, so it's pretty clear that reading comprehension is not your strong suit at the moment. My reference was to the snarky "resume" part of your post. It was stupid of you to put that in your post. This is discussion about the team's cuts. It's natural that there will be disagreements. It would be scary as hell if the entire Patriots fan base was on board with every single decision. Despite what some here would have, a board filled with Stepford fans is not what Ian is looking for.