Patriots cut safety Brandon Meriweather(merged jumbo thread)

[Sciz]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

What about Chung though? He got abused by Blair White. Beast vs the run but he's not the best in coverage.

The fact that Chung was even put into that situation says a lot. He should be able to hold his own against slower tight ends, for example.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

I'm not worried. If he is a Jet then he will cause so many penalties that he would help any team he plays.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

In addition to Merriweather's poor play perhaps it's simply that Belichick is devaluing the FS position and having Chung and Merriweather both on the team made little sense. We need a SS (Chung) with CB's to operate in this years system.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Aren't the pats also missing out on a high compensatory pick(3rd round?)? Don't like this move right now. We'll see though. BB is right most of the time but he has make mistakes before(Letting both branch and givens go cost them a super bowl). Hope he is making the right choice here.

There is absolutely no way of knowing what compensatory pick they would have gotten, least of all a 3rd round. It would depend on who else they signed, who else they lost and how much their contracts were worth. Any comp pick wouldn't be until 2013 anyway. Not nearly enough of a reason to keep him around.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Meriweather won't go to the Jets for a number of reasons:

1.) They are not going to replace Jim Leonhard with him. Both are FS and Leonhard is the QB of the defense. They need him to call the plays and adjustments.
2.) He doesn't fit into the Jets' scheme anymore than he fits in the Pats' scheme. Meriweather is just not a man coverage FS. He needs to play a zone.
3.) Meriweather is going to go somewhere where he can definitely start right away so he can get a big contract next year. As I pointed out in my first point, the Jets are not that place.

Disagree. Just because the Jets' corners play a lot of man coverage doesn't mean that their safeties do too. Rex Ryan's prototypical defense features a lot of press-man play by the corners, but the safeties are not often singled up in one on one coverage.

Leonhard is actually the SS on the Jets -- the combo of Pool/Smith was the FS last year -- but it's a bit confusing to keep track of because sometimes Leonhard is the deep safety and sometimes Pool is the deep safety, depending on the type of blitz. Rex likes to use his safeties in the blitz game quite often, and I'd say that Leonhard is more frequently used up in the box vs the run and on safety blitzes while Pool is often left as the deep safety.

The Jets are known for their daring nature to play cover zero at times and bring the house, but they often play a lot of press-man concepts with Cover 1 on the back end. Meriweather would play more of Ed Reed role in Rex's defense -- the deep centerfielder in cover 1 schemes that can freelance to make plays on the ball. How good he'd be in that role is up for debate. Some may say he'll be better b/c he wanted to freelance here and wasn't allowed to. Some may say he'll be worse b/c he took horrible angles and displayed bad football instincts in his time here.

I don't ever recall Ed Reed playing a lot of man coverage under Rex. He was often the lone deep safety with Rolle and McAlister playing press-man on WR's at the line. At the right price, Meriweather would probably be a good pickup for the Jets. I think he's an upgrade over Pool. He seems like an Adalius Thomas type of player who might be a bit more productive as a freelancer who can just go out there and play rather than trying to be that cerebral/smart/thinking safety that the Pats like to have back there.

 

[Froob]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

There is absolutely no way of knowing what compensatory pick they would have gotten, least of all a 3rd round. It would depend on who else they signed, who else they lost and how much their contracts were worth. Any comp pick wouldn't be until 2013 anyway. Not nearly enough of a reason to keep him around.

Oh okay thanks. Wasn't 100% sure what those were based on.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

In addition to Merriweather's poor play perhaps it's simply that Belichick is devaluing the FS position and having Chung and Merriweather both on the team made little sense. We need a SS (Chung) with CB's to operate in this years system.

What?
We need 2 safeties.
BB has always played his safeties as left and right rather than SS and FS because he wants both to be able to handle both jobs and not have to switch sides when the offense shifts.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Disagree. Just because the Jets' corners play a lot of man coverage doesn't mean that their safeties do too. Rex Ryan's prototypical defense features a lot of press-man play by the corners, but the safeties are not often singled up in one on one coverage.

Leonhard is actually the SS on the Jets -- the combo of Pool/Smith was the FS last year -- but it's a bit confusing to keep track of because sometimes Leonhard is the deep safety and sometimes Pool is the deep safety, depending on the type of blitz. Rex likes to use his safeties in the blitz game quite often, and I'd say that Leonhard is more frequently used up in the box vs the run and on safety blitzes while Pool is often left as the deep safety.

The Jets are known for their daring nature to play cover zero at times and bring the house, but they often play a lot of press-man concepts with Cover 1 on the back end. Meriweather would play more of Ed Reed role in Rex's defense -- the deep centerfielder in cover 1 schemes that can freelance to make plays on the ball. How good he'd be in that role is up for debate. Some may say he'll be better b/c he wanted to freelance here and wasn't allowed to. Some may say he'll be worse b/c he took horrible angles and displayed bad football instincts in his time here.

I don't ever recall Ed Reed playing a lot of man coverage under Rex. He was often the lone deep safety with Rolle and McAlister playing press-man on WR's at the line. At the right price, Meriweather would probably be a good pickup for the Jets. I think he's an upgrade over Pool. He seems like an Adalius Thomas type of player who might be a bit more productive as a freelancer who can just go out there and play rather than trying to be that cerebral/smart/thinking safety that the Pats like to have back there.

I admit I screwed up with Leonhard.

I understand how man coverage works. In any man coverage system, the FS only play man coverage himself on certain occassions. They just need to cover far more of the field than they do in a zone coverage syste, See my post in the other Meriweather thread. God help any team that puts Meriweather in the Cover 1. That is part of the reason why the Pats let him go because they are moving to man coverage.

Based on the limited amount we saw him in a man coverage system this preseason where he would be

Again, in a man coverage system, the FS has three primary types of responsibilities:

1.) Covering the slot WR one on one
2.) Playing close to the line of scrimmage and needing to read the QB to know whether to drop back into coverage
3.) Cover the over the top usually by himself.

Meriweather excels when he is given a small area to work in. You ask him to cover large parts of the field, he becomes liability. That's why the Pats cut him because they are moving to a coverage scheme similiar to the Jets.

 

[Rob0729]

I disagree. Meriwhether strength is his coverage ability. It makes no sense that he would be cut because we are going to value man to man coverage ability in a safety more. I like Chung but if this were the critieria he would be the one on the bench.
I don't like to put much credence in conclusion based on what someone believes BB is going to change his system to.
We always have blitzed a lot in sub packages. IIRC we blitzed the most in the NFL last year, so how does defending behind the blitz become more of a factor?

Meriweather's biggest liability is decision making and he has to do far more of it in man coverage. In a Cover 1, he has to cover sideline to sideline over the top which means he has to quickly diagnose which side of the field the ball is being thrown to and move in that direction.

In a man coverage system, the FS only plays man coverage himself a portion of the time. He mostly plays a type of zone. But unlike in a zone system, the zone he covers is usually a wide area of territory.

Comparing him to Chung in coverage is useless. In a man system, the SS and FS have very different roles. Chung's poor coverage skills are less of a liability because he doesn't play over the top nearly as much as he would in a zone. The FS does. In man coverage, the FS usually covers the intermediate and deep areas and the SS cover the short to intermediate areas. In zone, the FS usually covers the left side of the field and the SS covers the right side of the field or split coverage. Why not compare Meriweather's coverage ability to Mayo's?

One thing you can say about Chung that you cannot say about Meriweather is that he rarely makes mistakes. He might not be great in coverage and can't get to his man, but he rarely bites on play action or doesn't pick up his responsibility.

If you watched the preseason, the Pats ran a lot of man coverages. It isn't just one man's opinion. It is what they are running. Besides, Bedard has seemed to be pretty connected on a lot of this stuff.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

I know nothing about ballwashing son, but I do wish you would keep your vulgarities to yourself. Would Ian be happy if I sprayed my collection around here?

On board with every decision? Hardly. But since I can't actually do anything about what the Pats/BB has done or will do, what good pray tell is wringing my hands going to do? At least in several posts on this topic (in other threads) I offered the possible answers to the question. That seems more productive to me then the chicken little thing.

Isn't it in fact in keeping with whatever Ian would like is me asking the bridge jumpers for more patience while they are in fact pushing the panic button? So, I can't use sarcasm, but you can use rank vulgarity?

Perhaps it's my poor reading comprehension (hah har), but I still fail to see why my way of posting should be critiqued by some scold of the site. One that seems to operate with his own rule set. How about you address me in a way to would inspire me to respect you AND your seemingly solid advice (buried though it be), and you save the boogeyman routine for someone else?

Good day.

Given that you post aggressively to more than just my replies, my suggestion to you is to either grow a thicker skin or look to yourself and take a softer tone here. This place is soft and cuddly compared to most, but it's still adults talking, and you're going to get at least as good as you give, since the numbers will always be against any single poster.

And ballwashing is a common term that's never, to my recollection, been an issue here.

 

[italia44]

Hey, anybody have a source for the 5th for Lowery? Everything I read says "undisclosed conditional pick."

This is my mistake....it is a conditional pick.Jetsinsider was speculating that it would be a 5th.....I should have read the whole thread:bricks:

 

[Ring 6]

Meriweather's biggest liability is decision making and he has to do far more of it in man coverage. In a Cover 1, he has to cover sideline to sideline over the top which means he has to quickly diagnose which side of the field the ball is being thrown to and move in that direction.

Well first of all we aren't a cover 1 team.

In a man coverage system, the FS only plays man coverage himself a portion of the time. He mostly plays a type of zone. But unlike in a zone system, the zone he covers is usually a wide area of territory.

A true free safety is free to go make plays and can be afforded to make mistakes.
But we play our safeties LEFT and RIGHT not strong and free.

Comparing him to Chung in coverage is useless. In a man system, the SS and FS have very different roles.

First of all if you think we have become a man to man defense, I think you will change your mind when you see real games.
Secondly, no, BB has always had his safeties play Left or Right, so that both are capable of playing strong side or weak.

Chung's poor coverage skills are less of a liability because he doesn't play over the top nearly as much as he would in a zone. The FS does. In man coverage, the FS usually covers the intermediate and deep areas and the SS cover the short to intermediate areas.

That is simply incorrect

In zone, the FS usually covers the left side of the field and the SS covers the right side of the field or split coverage. Why not compare Meriweather's coverage ability to Mayo's.

Wise@ss comment aside, you are totalling ignoring that in BBs defense the S interchange strong and weak.
But you are saying they play left and right. Are you trying to tell me it takes different skills to cover the left side of the field than the right?

If you watched the preseason, the Pats ran a lot of man coverages. It isn't just one man's opinion. It is what they are running. Besides, Bedard has seemed to be pretty connected on a lot of this stuff.

They played every coverage there is in preseason. Some games they blitzed a lot, some almost not at all.
To say the preseason gives us an indication of how much man they will play is naive. And even if that were the case we still played a lot more zone than man anyway.
We will have to wait until Bedard actually tries to tell us his inside information about gameplanning before concluding he will be good at it.
Are you really telling me that BB has shared his gameplanning for this season with Bedard, so he can write about it?

 

[stcjones]

Seems like very STUPID move here...one, we are weak at that position now somewhat depthwise....and B)....couldn't we have TRADED the guy for something and at least something for the guy...unreal...well anyways un BB we trust....

Per Twitter @shalisemyoung-



Merriweather cut by Patriots.

 

[JetFan1]

I disagree. Meriwhether strength is his coverage ability. It makes no sense that he would be cut because we are going to value man to man coverage ability in a safety more. I like Chung but if this were the critieria he would be the one on the bench.
I don't like to put much credence in conclusion based on what someone believes BB is going to change his system to.
We always have blitzed a lot in sub packages. IIRC we blitzed the most in the NFL last year, so how does defending behind the blitz become more of a factor?

Exactly. Meriweather's strength is his coverage ability, he's a big hitter and his athletic. His faults are in space and in zone. He's not a cerebral player, and in BB's scheme in the secondary, they need to be able to see things as Belichick does.

It's not surprising Rob had a spin for the move, everything the Patriots do is golden, he'll go out and find the hack that he can spin off of, in this case Bedard, and off he goes, the Pats made a great move. I don't think the guy has ever criticized a Patriot move.

The Meriweather move is puzzling, my own sense is that Meriweather wasn't intuitive enough, and didn't develop well enough for Belichick's liking. Good athlete, when asked to patrol a zone scheme and to execute the very many different sets and plays Belichick probably has in his playbook, Meriweather could not master it.

I'm shocked the Pats didn't get anything for him, while the Jets got a conditional pick for a lesser player in Lowery.

I could see the Jets making a play for him, but he won't be a starter, he'd be a better fit in nickel and dime situations where can use his athleticism and cover a side of the field, or move up and provide coverage.

Biggest question I have is why would the Pats give up both starting safeties without established players or at least players with upside and potential behind him? Is Chung really being viewed as that kind of player?

The player I'd like to see the Jets go after is Brandon Tate, I was shocked to see the Pats gave up on him as well.

 

[stcjones]

Re: Pats trying to trade Brandon Merriweather

Here comes the worst pass defense in the leauge. Because Chung can't even cover a scrub like Blair White. My guess is this is yet another unwarranted media speculation. Cut? Nevermind, I am wrong.

Umm..chung is actually awesome....did u watch the games at all last season? Guy had alot of tackles and proved he could play!

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

What?
We need 2 safeties.
BB has always played his safeties as left and right rather than SS and FS because he wants both to be able to handle both jobs and not have to switch sides when the offense shifts.

That always word doesn't cut it for me this year.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm shocked the Pats didn't get anything for him, while the Jets got a conditional pick for a lesser player in Lowery.

I'll be honest. I am not surprised that BB cut him. My reasoning? To allow Meriweather to go to a team of his choosing. It's actually a sign of respect by Belichick. Just like Belichick did with Sanders. Also, with the Pats already having 5 or 6 picks in the 1st three rounds already, it becomes questionable as to whether or not they'd get the value they believe Meriweather is worth..

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

Sometimes Belichick makes mistakes, I know this may shatter your worldview, but it's true.

Releasing both Sanders and Meriweather with Josh Barrett the apparent answer seems like a mistake right now.

I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, since it makes no sense to me that we'd go into the season with what we have at safety. If the Pats enter week 1 with Barrett and Brown as the #2/3 safeties, I'll 100% agree with you.

 

[Rob0729]

Well first of all we aren't a cover 1 team.

I never said the Pats are a cover 1 team, but it is one of the cover 1 is one of the coverages in a man scheme. And yes because the Pats are moving to more man defense, it will likely happen.

A true free safety is free to go make plays and can be afforded to make mistakes.
But we play our safeties LEFT and RIGHT not strong and free.

The Pats have played strong and free in the past when they the early part of the dynasty years.

First of all if you think we have become a man to man defense, I think you will change your mind when you see real games.
Secondly, no, BB has always had his safeties play Left or Right, so that both are capable of playing strong side or weak.

First, I don't think the Pats will play man exclusively, but they will play it far, far more this year.

Second, in the early years the Pats did play traditional FS and SS. They did a lot of it in 2000 and 2001.

That is simply incorrect

Chung is not a great cover guy, but he doesn't make the mental mistakes that Meriweather makes. If Meriweather had Chung's mental abilities, he would be an elite safety. He gambles and gambles stupidily.

Wise@ss comment aside, you are totalling ignoring that in BBs defense the S interchange strong and weak.
But you are saying they play left and right. Are you trying to tell me it takes different skills to cover the left side of the field than the right?

First, you typically don't play left side, right side in a man coverage scheme.

They played every coverage there is in preseason. Some games they blitzed a lot, some almost not at all.
To say the preseason gives us an indication of how much man they will play is naive. And even if that were the case we still played a lot more zone than man anyway.
We will have to wait until Bedard actually tries to tell us his inside information about gameplanning before concluding he will be good at it.
Are you really telling me that BB has shared his gameplanning for this season with Bedard, so he can write about it?

Sorry, but the Pats didn't keep all these defensive linemen (many of them who are not 3-4 players) to not change the scheme. If they were going to only play a four man front in nickel and dime, they would have kept Meriweather.

I know you refuse to believe that the Pats are changing their scheme, but when former players like Bruschi and Brown and media guys who are close to Belichick like Michael Holley are saying they are I tend to believe them. Everyone in the media are saying he is changing his scheme. It isn't just because one guy thinks this and the media jumped aboard. There will be a lot of Belichick's old system in it, but it is clear that Belichick is going to have far more attack defensive plays this year than maybe any year and that requires man coverage.

 

[Rob0729]

I'll be honest. I am not surprised that BB cut him. My reasoning? To allow Meriweather to go to a team of his choosing. It's actually a sign of respect by Belichick. Just like Belichick did with Sanders. Also, with the Pats already having 5 or 6 picks in the 1st three rounds already, it becomes questionable as to whether or not they'd get the value they believe Meriweather is worth..

Nah! I think Belichick probably tried to trade him, but most teams knew he was probably going to be cut anyway. Not that his salary was huge, but whatever team can sign him tomorrow for the veteran minimum with no draft pick.

I guess there is a chance that teams only offered a seventh and the Pats decided to just release him.